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When will we play Table Tennis again?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2020 at 7:11pm
Hi,

We have just been informed that the great Alameda Table Tennis Club is closing.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2020 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

We have just been informed that the great Alameda Table Tennis Club is closing.
Closing as in going out of business?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2020 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

We have just been informed that the great Alameda Table Tennis Club is closing.
Closing as in going out of business?

Yes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/19/2020 at 11:59pm
A club like that does not close but goes into hibernation. They store the tables and wait for better days. The network of people is still in place and they'll bounce back I bet. Sad to hear though, many kids have progressed there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 2:11am
man, that's sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 3:47am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

man, that's sad.

Very much so.  It will be interesting to see this period reflected upon in a couple of years.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longrange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 6:19am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

NL, I dont want to put words in Patrick's mouth, but if it was suddenly announced that a vaccine had been discovered and proved to be effective, let's say in October, many scientists who understand drug discovery would very much doubt it was true and might suspect that either something in the approval process had been corruptly manipulated (because it is extremely unlikely that a proper vaccine testing process could be completed by then); or alternatively we would anticipate that in spite of the announcement for mysterious reasons nobody would be able to actually get this vaccine. It would depend a lot on who made the announcement. An ineffective vaccine would produce a false sense of security.   

This comment could be construed as a form of tinfoil hat (and I doubt any such announcement will occur that soon), but some of what I have seen from the CDC and FDA this year has shocked my faith in the independence of those agencies enough to actually make me consider that this could hapoen. 

Now if the results of the Phase 3 trial were made transparently available and independent statisticians got to look at the data, I would then believe.


...aaaand here we are:

The first coronavirus vaccine to be tested in people appears to be safe and able to stimulate an immune response against the infection, the manufacturer, Moderna, announced on Monday, offering a glint of hope to a world desperate for ways to stop the pandemic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 7:49am
Sorry to hear about the club's closing.  I can only imagine how difficult it is for the Alameda TTC.  When the time is right, I hope Dave will post about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 9:14am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Sorry to hear about the club's closing.  I can only imagine how difficult it is for the Alameda TTC.  When the time is right, I hope Dave will post about it.

HI,

Dave has been one of the outstanding leaders in table tennis in the United States.  Always in quiet demeanor, his contribution has been significant and of noteworthy value.  

Maybe "hibernation" correctly characterizes the club's soon near-term state (and it certainly is our greatest hope), however the truculent response to this epidemic on the economic side of this dyadic virus/economy catastrophe by the national government is of such depth that very extensive permanent damage is certain.  This is coupled with an incessant pounding on the virus side of this equation that has resulted in a panic paranoia in a not-insignificant number of Americans resulting in partial but extensive behavioral paralysis. 

One survey indicates 80% of Americans today fear eating in a restaurant.  Another evaluation indicated 40% of small business owners (Note: 30 million small businesses) in America are in doubt of ever reopening.  There also exists much information on the many millions of workers who now greatly fear going back to work.  The USATT published guidelines stand as a fine representation of the penetration of this extremely harmful ethos.

Two primary factors foster pessimism.  One is economic: Unlike many of the countries in Europe, the financial support in the United States for the tens of millions of workers displaced by this catastrophe has been atrocious.  The consequence of this is a hugely suppressed economic demand of historic proportions.  Without this demand, the economy has no prospects for attaining robustness, as the vicious cycle reinforcing low sales, low rehiring, low consumer incomes dominates.  In this context, under the current national economic response, any positive perspective may only be reasonably advocated years into the future.   

The other factor promoting pessimism is the cultural ethos.  This current severe limitation is due to the nature of humans as a species.  Unlike polar bears and jaguars, humans are a congregation species.  Human societies function in congregations.  Humans congregate in work, in pleasure, in social engagements, in religious participation.  As communicated in this response to this health threat, a health threat characterized by the authorities unrelentingly as one of such uncertainty as to justify any extreme caution, the proper behavior is the opposite of congregation; isolation.  Stay isolated, it is the only hope of survival.  The country has embraced this with commitment and dedication thoroughness.  We have come apart.

The fundamental economic solution is to come together.  As it has always been the case for all other national tragedies, it is so true here.  Yet, the powerfully positive appeal of isolation juxtaposed with the promoted very scary ever-uncertain danger of congregation makes it impossible for many, numbering in the tens of millions, to participate fully in what is needed for economic rejuvenation.  Sadly, too many are too emotionally crippled to participate to the extent necessary to effect strong economic outcomes. 

I've held a thin optimism for our country's private clubs based on two operating assumptions: 1) The landlords, knowing the prospects of leasing the space to other businesses is very poor indeed, thus encouraging the landlords to be lenient with the clubs, of sufficient leniency as to give the clubs the time needed to re-initiate.  2)  The clubs have a highly specialized customer base that retains its interest in club activities.  When the club's are positioned to begin again, a sufficient number of the customer base will return to the specialized setting for the club to be viable.

Thanks.      
"Speed kills but technical speed absolutely annihilates defenders." Mia Hamm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 12:03pm
Well Sweden does have some rules for how people can use their training halls, which are high school handball/basketball courts.


Use Google translate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 3:24pm
Yes, I am surprised that the law did not state that the landlords must forgive part of the rent during lock down times. Obviously it was too big of a legal hassle and it's so easier to let the renters get kicked out or find a private non-imposed arrangement like 50-50. Political willpower was necessary here but that guy generally sides with the landlords, it's the path of the least resistance in the land of king Property.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 4:05pm
On the other hand, especially in summer, utility costs are a big factor for clubs and will not decline.  It is true that landlords may have a hard time finding a new tenant but not all will be reasonable or they may have their own personal financial issues.  Most clubs are barely getting by as it is unless they have wealthy benefactors.  It is sad that such a great club as Alameda has had to close.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2020 at 9:57pm
Here is a peer-reviewed study from Korea documenting spread of Covid-19 from instructors to students in Latin dance fitness classes.  Seemed like one place studied in detail was a pretty small room, though.  Almost 1/3 of the people infected had a pneumonia.



Edited by Baal - 05/20/2020 at 10:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2020 at 12:57am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

We have just been informed that the great Alameda Table Tennis Club is closing.

Thanks.

That's heart-wrenching Cry. Such a great little club.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2020 at 2:46am
Scheize. Raw Deal. I know TT coaches and players out of work who have attempted to keep body and soul together with Poker and Day Trading.

Edited by BH-Man - 05/21/2020 at 2:46am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2020 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

I am not a member of the at-risk population, nor are my family members. Also, I have nothing to gain financially from a continued shutdown - on the contrary, universities will be in financial peril because of Covid-19. Faculty, including some tenured faculty will find themselves on chopping boards. And let me tell you tele-working was no dance on roses!! Lastly, to keep this TT related: I miss playing against other people (I have a robot), and would want to see this end as quickly as possible. 

I am a scientist, who looks at data and knowledge in a dispassionate non-BS manner. Science, coupled with history, tells us what is going on and what to expect, i.e., what the most likely path forward will be. I am skeptical of those with obvious vested financial and political interests.   

I want to see humanity (and organizations) make data- and science-informed decisions, especially as it pertains to the Covid-19 crisis. The partial opening of some, but not all, states is justified and even overdue, provided everyone respects the new "normal'. However, I want people to be aware that i) the virus has not disappeared, ii) it has not become less dangerous, iii) there is no vaccine or effective treatment, nor will there be one in the short-term unless - as Baal indicated - major safety short-cuts are made. We cannot stay in lock-down mode for months on end. In principle society could make this work and adapt to the new normal (i.e., social distancing, masks, low occupancy in gyms/restaurants/shops etc) and - if we all respected the restrictions, we could even play TT. However, I don't have any confidence that everyone will be responsible, especially since this is increasingly becoming a politicized issue (freedom vs govt control; finance vs health; right vs left). And it only takes one irresponsible infected person to start the chain again. I don't want to see older, susceptible club members die because I pushed to open up the club. I don't want to infect my neighbors. I don't want to bring it home and potentially infect my kids, and potentially diminish their lung capacity.  

So I am choosing to control, what I can control, at least for the next couple of weeks and months.

Sorry for the marginally TT-related post. Feel free to delete it. I will not be offended.            
         

Thanks for your response, Patrick.  Much appreciated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2020 at 7:53am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

We have just been informed that the great Alameda Table Tennis Club is closing.
Closing as in going out of business?
Yes
=================
That's sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2020 at 8:53pm
Our club has not opened for play yet, but as soon as the State law allows us to open we will open.

Our rent is low, and our club members are very supportive, and over the years we have built a sizable cash reserve --- we have no financial problems.  We just paid our quarterly rent - no sweat at all.


Edited by skip3119 - 05/22/2020 at 9:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2020 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Our club has not opened for play yet, but as soon as the State law allows us to open we will open.

Our rent is low, and our club members are very supportive, and over the years we have built a sizable cash reserve --- we have no financial problems.  We just paid our quarterly rent - no sweat at all.

Great to hear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejprinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2020 at 7:44pm
German children go back to school, and table tennis is starting up again. Always organized, the Deutscher Tischtennisbund has put together a set of rules, see https://www.tischtennis.de/corona.html and the pdf file enclosures. Overall common sense rules pointing out that table tennis is not a contact sport and can be made safe. Of course the pdf is in German only :-)
These are the points in addition of what was already mentioned in this thread:

Organization:
* No doubles or play where more than 2 people are at a table (e.g. for exercises)
* Minimum distance 1.5m (~5 feet) at all times and access rules posted to guarantee that minimum distance.
* Tables are being separated with suitable measures (dividers or other measures).
* Several minutes break between sets of players at a table.

How the game is played:
* No greeting rituals.
* Clockwise change of sides at the table.
* Always obey 5 feet distance. No coach/player corrections closer than 5 feet.
* Coaches wear face masks if they have to come closer in emergencies (e.g. player injured).
* During breaks obey 5 feet distance.
* No change of sides during play.

Hygiene:
* People who set up tables wash their hands before and after.
* After each training unit, every part of the table is being sanitized.
* No breathing on the ball to increase friction, or touching the table to remove sweat from hands.
* Sweat is being removed from ball, racket, or hands with the player's own towel.
* Ensure good ventilation of the playing area. Between games, open doors, or use other means to increase ventilation.
* No use of change rooms or showers. Players enter the playing area fully dressed in table tennis attire including shoes.
* If toilets are available, only one person is inside the toilet (note this is still dangerous if the flushing isn't done with lid closed and sufficient time between users).
* Sufficient cleaning and sanitation supplies are provided and stocked.

Optional Measures:
* Every player brings his/her own balls (clearly marked) or the players agree on different colors (one player orange, other player white). No player touches the other players balls.
* If needed push the other players balls e.g. with the shoes or a ball collection net.

There are more measures designed to prevent crowding, e.g. everyone has to book their slot for playing, noone who isn't actively playing is in the building (also no parents of minors), 540 sq. feet space for every 2 players + table.

After the training, tables are being cleaned and washing hands after cleaning the tables.

No formal competitions at this time.

So this is an abbreviated summary of the pdf. Notice that the Germans as usual use detailed rules and from experience one can expect that the clubs follow the rules. Also note that German kids are back in school, so maybe these rules can be triggered in the USA once kids go back to school. You can see at https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html how the new cases look in Germany vs. USA. I think for the USA we need to acknowledge that there is a big disparity in cases between various counties. Counties with few cases are probably safe to start playing again with the above rules.



Edited by ejprinz - 05/23/2020 at 8:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2020 at 10:43am
NC currently limits the gathering of no more than 10.
When this limit is removed, we will be ready to reopen to play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2020 at 6:49am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

NC currently limits the gathering of no more than 10.
When this limit is removed, we will be ready to reopen to play.


I presume NC is North Carolina, USA.

This from the Triangle Table Tennis Website

Effective this evening 5/22/2020 at 5:00 pm and to provide the best safety possible for staff and members we will be open for both Table Tennis and Badminton play for members only with a maximum capacity of 34 table tennis players and 36 Badminton players on a first come-first-served basis. We will review this within a week, to see if court bookings will be required at certain times to prevent too many people being in close proximity

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WeebleWobble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2020 at 9:00am
Gyms in NC are supposed to stay closed for at least 5 more weeks.

Edited by WeebleWobble - 05/25/2020 at 9:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2020 at 9:01am
I don't think TTTC follows the NC Governor's directive.
=============

Off topic:  TTTC organized tournaments:  Very few players participate.
                Have no idea what's wrong with that organization.


Edited by skip3119 - 05/25/2020 at 9:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrLee4ATTC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2020 at 1:01pm
Austin Table Tennis is opening in phases. We have a 12,000 sf building w/22’ ceilings and 16 tables. Last week our head coach began giving private coaching lessons again and by all accounts, it went well. This week we will begin phase 2 and open 2 more tables at the most distant points in the club for our other coaches to use for private lessons. All start/stop time are staggered to minimize interactions and we are following all of the Texas health/safety protocol as well as the best practices we found from ITTF, USATT, etc. We will monitor phase 2 for a couple of weeks and then finalize plans for phase 3, which will be to open a few more tables so members can reserve a spot to play...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2020 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

I don't think TTTC follows the NC Governor's directive.
=============

Off topic:  TTTC organized tournaments:  Very few players participate.
                Have no idea what's wrong with that organization.


Based on what I see here, everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2020 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

NC currently limits the gathering of no more than 10.
When this limit is removed, we will be ready to reopen to play.


I presume NC is North Carolina, USA.

This from the Triangle Table Tennis Website

Effective this evening 5/22/2020 at 5:00 pm and to provide the best safety possible for staff and members we will be open for both Table Tennis and Badminton play for members only with a maximum capacity of 34 table tennis players and 36 Badminton players on a first come-first-served basis. We will review this within a week, to see if court bookings will be required at certain times to prevent too many people being in close proximity

Thanks
From what I could find in a quick search is there is a 10 person gathering limit indoor in NC. Now I admit I sometimes didn't pay attention in math everyday during school but I'm fairly certain that letting 70 people in is just a little bit over the 10 person limit. Maybe someone in NC can clarify?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2020 at 8:53am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

NC currently limits the gathering of no more than 10.
When this limit is removed, we will be ready to reopen to play.


I presume NC is North Carolina, USA.

This from the Triangle Table Tennis Website

Effective this evening 5/22/2020 at 5:00 pm and to provide the best safety possible for staff and members we will be open for both Table Tennis and Badminton play for members only with a maximum capacity of 34 table tennis players and 36 Badminton players on a first come-first-served basis. We will review this within a week, to see if court bookings will be required at certain times to prevent too many people being in close proximity

Thanks
From what I could find in a quick search is there is a 10 person gathering limit indoor in NC. Now I admit I sometimes didn't pay attention in math everyday during school but I'm fairly certain that letting 70 people in is just a little bit over the 10 person limit. Maybe someone in NC can clarify?
Triangle has a really big space though.  Maybe they are faily confident that they can meet social distancing mandates with that many people given the space in the facility.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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BH: T05H 1.9 B/R
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2020 at 11:21am
Or maybe for some reason they feel free to simply ignore the limit.  Maybe it is a matter of their survival as a business, which was not exactly thriving even before all this.  Whatever the reason, 70 is a lot of exercising people in an indoor space.  Whether they are "fairly confident" they can do it or not, that is a big number.  One context in this is that cases in NC show no sign at all of leveling off, rather they are continuing to increase, and Charlotte is a big city.  On the other hand about 6% of people tested there are actually positive.  Not a huge number.

People deciding whether to play there might want to keep those things  in mind.  If you are an at-risk person (60+, elevated blood pressure, and/or diabetes), or live with older sicker relatives, think long and hard.


Edited by Baal - 05/26/2020 at 11:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote analamejor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2020 at 12:07pm
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