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Club Membership Reimbursement

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DreiZ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05/04/2020 at 7:50pm
The clubs in NY havent opened yet but im wondering if any other club members around the country who had a yearly membership got some sort of reimbursement or extension for the amount of time the club was closed.

I figured since we paid in advance for services we werent able to use we should get some sort of compensation. Most gyms froze monthly membership payments.




Edited by DreiZ - 05/04/2020 at 7:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cio4you Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2020 at 8:07pm
It is my opinion that if you want a club to comeback too we have to help support them through these times. If we don’t you will most likely not have a club that’s viable. Most clubs can not survive without a certain amount of club members myself included providing funding through these difficult times. Lets face it our sport is very inexpensive relatively speaking. I think its our responsibility if we can to help support our clubs until a time they can serve us again in a safe way. Just my 2 cents.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2020 at 11:21pm
This is a very good point.  You want your club to survive, right?

Edited by Baal - 05/04/2020 at 11:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2020 at 11:35pm
Our club is extending members memberships during the closure. The surest way to guarantee that your club is gonna fail and close is for its membership base to start asking for their membership fee back. Another thing to think about is the added costs the club are going to incur to keep their clubs clean and the constant sanitizing that's going to be going on a daily and in some cases hourly basis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 1:51am
BH-Man gunna throw hiz 22 cents into the boat and let it float...

Our local club takes payment in person monthly. The day the club re-opens and if I happen to be there, I will pay my monthly membership... and hope everyone who was at the club before does that too.

If I had done an annual membership, I would NOT be asking for a partial refund or encourage anyone to do that.

Our club is in a different situation than most. The owner, even with 100 members is obviously not making expenses. The owner has a lot of oother building he leases, which more than cover the loss he incurs with the TT club. He loves TT and wnted a facility like this, he knew at first he would be on hte minus side big time for a time. There are prospects of a resturant being completed, plus some expansion and possbly tournaments. The resturant, if/when complete and leased, along with some more members might get to break even.

If he expands a couple rooms by knocking down walls to make an even wider area to run tourneys, that would put club into profit likely... but it would also greatly take away from the guy who runs quarterly sanctioned tourneys here. There are considerations and decisions and effects to go along with planning and decision making.

By itself, it would take another 50 members and half those takng lessons for club to make even... given the time the club has been here, that would mean that kids and parents suddenly decide TT is the sport for them. Might happen, but tough to bet on that with big money on the line in this place.

What members can do is support club and help owner get more members, so to ensure the nice club stays there, so are in this frame of mind, some, many, just show up at the door at 10:02 and ask why club doors did not open 2 minutes ago, so they can play for 9 hours already. At least they are steady and a club needs that.

If this club fails, in Sacramento, given the prices for leased space with the competition for pot growing firms to rent, will be very difficult to make even an 8 table outfit pay rent in a cramped space. Could be done with same members and $80 to $100 a month memebrship fees if there are 100+ members, but the crowd here is griping about paying $40-$50 a month.

What gunna happen is TT in this area would revert to the "American Statndard" of setting up some tables in a rented community center gym for 2 hrs or so once or twice a week and playing matches. That really isn't a club, but it is the reality of many places in USA for TT.

Some people at work somewhere will have the backstage pass for a match here and there, but all in all, in many urban areas, there is huge increasing financial pressure on TT facility expenses and huge reluctance for TT players to pay what it takes to play given the relatively small numbers and spread out nature of those interested. Maybe this dynamic change with some new trend in some months to come, but I doubt it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 5:47am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Our club is extending members memberships during the closure. The surest way to guarantee that your club is gonna fail and close is for its membership base to start asking for their membership fee back. Another thing to think about is the added costs the club are going to incur to keep their clubs clean and the constant sanitizing that's going to be going on a daily and in some cases hourly basis.

I would be happy with an extended membership for annual members. I personally wouldn’t ask for some part of it back knowing that the club does need to survive thru this but I’m also wondering if many clubs got a relief from the PPP loan program given that they are small businesses.

I also doubt my club will do any extra cleaning after this thing. We share the space with indoor soccer people (and apparently that’s where a good chunk of their profits come from) and on most nights they get loud and rowdy after drinking too many beers. On those nights the bathroom looks and smells worse than the public toilet at penn station on a Friday night. It’s kind of sad but they encourage this behavior by selling beer to them in the first place so I don’t feel bad for the business. Just wish they would clean up after them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 6:50am
if you can possibly afford it, consider NOT demanding a refund for your club's sake. 

I get it not everybody's in the same financial situation nor is their club. It seems like table tennis players are so cheap ( except their own equipment)  and believe me if you lived where I live you would appreciate having a good club. I've donated $25 to three clubs I've never even been to and one that I've been to once but didnt play. You can say it's a marketing expense and it might or might not be. Of course for me this could be considered a marketing expense but probably it's not.

All I'm saying is consider your situation and consider the club situation when you make your decision about paying for the time we've lost.


Edited by cole_ely - 05/05/2020 at 7:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 8:13am
Hi,

Could be done with same members and $80 to $100 a month memebrship fees if there are 100+ members, but the crowd here is griping about paying $40-$50 a month.

Many very good observations in this thread.  

For the U.S. club/competitive segment of the sport to flourish, the typical participant needs to change.  Different people with the proper perspective are required to be the base membership level.  Different people with a different view of the value of our clubs is mandatory.

The great irony is that the value to the regular participants is very high.  All these wonderful qualities realized at the clubs are very much underappreciated by a too-high percentage of the current participants.  It is also the case that for these people no other comparable environment provides the exercise/social/camaraderie/instruction/sport's competition complex that the table tennis clubs deliver.  The value is very high for these people.

Pervasively, it is this residual participant group, vocal and demanding as they are, that exerts the most significant influence in these club financial matters.  All this should change, and as is true in all such excursions, there will be those who chose to no longer participate.  They are correct; they should no longer come to the club, but seek other activities to occupy their time.

Thanks. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 10:11am
Our club has told us our memberships will be extended the amount of time they were closed. I am going to tell them not to do that for me, I need them to be successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

... On those nights the bathroom looks and smells worse than the public toilet at penn station on a Friday night. It’s kind of sad but they encourage this behavior by selling beer to them in the first place so I don’t feel bad for the business. Just wish they would clean up after them.


You need to do a few years in the military and get put on SHIT Details, like cleaning up BOTH genders of bathrooms where 100 people work.

You think a bunch of GUYS who were not drunk at the time they pissed or crapped in that place are nasty (and yes, true, many are nasty)… but in general, you never saw such a bunch of inconsiderate unwilling to pick up after themselves crowd. You would think such actually enjoy that stuff all over themselves - you almost cannot avoid the filth just stepping in.

... but you gunna get a whole new level of eye opening when you gotta service the female bathrooms that have a few who are nasty with triple capital N... you would never imagine in your life that the female gender would have such among their ranks... but those few make up 100x for the clean majority and so trash the place with nasty, unhygienic things that would sicken hardened vets if mentioned here... so it just isn't the drunk crowd.

The military gets its young from general society and is about 1-2 years behind the curve in trends... and this trend has never backed off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by cio4you cio4you wrote:

It is my opinion that if you want a club to comeback too we have to help support them through these times. If we don’t you will most likely not have a club that’s viable. Most clubs can not survive without a certain amount of club members myself included providing funding through these difficult times. Lets face it our sport is very inexpensive relatively speaking. I think its our responsibility if we can to help support our clubs until a time they can serve us again in a safe way. Just my 2 cents.....


this can't be stressed enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

…(via BH-Man) Could be done with same members and $80 to $100 a month memebrship fees if there are 100+ members, but the crowd here is griping about paying $40-$50 a month.


I will expound on that even more and make sane people scratch their heads.

This crowd, (the retired O50 crowd comprising about 1/2 the club membership) has MILLIONAIRES in its ranks, and these wear the SAME $3 white t-shirt to the club that uses mostly just white balls. These millionaires have not changed their rubbers in years. They wear any kind of $10 shoes that are handy.

This crowd will show up early AM expecting the club to open early for them and stay there between 6-10 hours with a break for food locally.

This crowd gets a huge break on the monthly membership.

This crowd is absolute CRAZY about trying to get better, but only ONE out of these 50 gets lessons from the club's full time coach.

This crowd will multiball and single ball from basket for hours each day.

Many of this crowd gets FREE instruction from another senior or two for hours each day - he never asks for any money. SOME of this crowd are grateful and get together some money every couple months to replenish the training balls and buy the absolute cheapest things they can find.

Most of that crowd are not so appreciative - they just wanna paly... and play. and train and not really get better.

That crowd collectively has the assets purchase all the accessories they need to grow and enjoy, but never get together and pull it off. I donated camera tripod with cell phone adapter, ball pickers, and a ball cart to that crowd for their exclusive use. Altogether, that might have been barely over $100 USD... and if all 50 got together, that is like no where near $5 USD per person. I never griped at it, there are enough people from that crowd who care, only takes a few.

Sounds like I am a basher of the O50 geezer crowd... well... BH-Man IS a Geezer himself in that age category, so I got a right to talk frankly about that crowd too.

That is how the majority of the 1/2 of the club roll. They get as Donn correctly describes a very favorable portion of benefit and value for their $40. They even have a Karoke room to howl at the Moon. yup, they howl and it is a riot when they do, because I start coyote howling when they do that - we all get some free fun.

If the owner raises monthly fees to $100 to APPROACH breaking even on expenses (Think of what it costs to operate a 20,000 sf facility in Sacramento for rent/lease, utilities, maint, tax and supplies/labor) and this crowd contributes $2000 USD a month to these expenses, which is easily over $10k a month... if owner raises monthly fee to $100, they all gunna go for the most part. you would have under 100 having to pay $125 to $150 to keep the thing afloat unless other things happen (restaurant/sanctioned 4 star tourneys)…

That is unlikely to happen, but something is gunna give with our club, natural forces are at play and they are held off only as long as the owner is willing to take big losses to offset gains in his other businesses.

You or me try to open any kind of fixed location full time TT operation without a $5000 monthly grant, there is no way it would last here.

Edited by BH-Man - 05/05/2020 at 3:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chongqinghotpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 5:30pm
I renewed my membership for 6 months yesterday. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 8:06pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

... On those nights the bathroom looks and smells worse than the public toilet at penn station on a Friday night. It’s kind of sad but they encourage this behavior by selling beer to them in the first place so I don’t feel bad for the business. Just wish they would clean up after them.


You need to do a few years in the military and get put on SHIT Details, like cleaning up BOTH genders of bathrooms where 100 people work.

You think a bunch of GUYS who were not drunk at the time they pissed or crapped in that place are nasty (and yes, true, many are nasty)… but in general, you never saw such a bunch of inconsiderate unwilling to pick up after themselves crowd. You would think such actually enjoy that stuff all over themselves - you almost cannot avoid the filth just stepping in.

... but you gunna get a whole new level of eye opening when you gotta service the female bathrooms that have a few who are nasty with triple capital N... you would never imagine in your life that the female gender would have such among their ranks... but those few make up 100x for the clean majority and so trash the place with nasty, unhygienic things that would sicken hardened vets if mentioned here... so it just isn't the drunk crowd.

The military gets its young from general society and is about 1-2 years behind the curve in trends... and this trend has never backed off.

It’s a cesspool for spreading diseases considering so many people use that one bathroom. 

I hope the club owners also take into consideration the mass hangouts they allow at our club. With TT players we are kind of spread out between the tables, but for soccer players, they are all bunched up in one area... so I have no idea how any social distancing rules would apply to them. Trying to enforce any of that plus asking them to be clean would be like asking a monkey to hold a grenade... 

These people also love to smoke inside the hallway of the entrance to the building and all that smoke travels inside (and I’ve complained multiple times about it, even seen players that had to leave because it would aggravate their asthma)... but I’m ranting now and getting off topic.

I honestly doubt any radical changes would be implemented after this pandemic at our club since most of the profits come from soccer leagues anyway. They would accommodate them the most in order to not lose business. It’s unfortunate since it’s a good club but enables many bad behaviors from the non-TT folks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2020 at 12:09am
Yeah, can get downright difficult to do competitive matches in NYISC with all the sudden loud noises, and worse, all the unsupervised children running around screaming bumping into things right next to the court suddenly and having the time of their lives.

Still, if one just wants to train or goof off with friends, still manageable… when everyone doing soccer isn't screaming at 125 decibels.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2020 at 12:14am
I would agree that that many people getting that nasty in the restroom is an issue for general health regardless of what time it is. That requires a real cleanup every 30 minutes and I doubt a TT club is gunna hire someone whose primary job is cleaning full time... Might happen, the labor isn't terrible expensive, but it is an extra expense that piles up.

TT club members are not like military members that you could randomly order to do cleanup detail and supervise them like pissed off Drill SGT... club members doing cleanup is not gunna happen, so we go what we got. Prolly better just give a job, even crappy paying job to someone than to work filthy all the time. May be easy to up the soccer fee a tiny to cover that and the people would notice one of their own got a job and the place looks better... that could happen with a better chance than getting club members to cleanup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2020 at 1:57am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

I would agree that that many people getting that nasty in the restroom is an issue for general health regardless of what time it is. That requires a real cleanup every 30 minutes and I doubt a TT club is gunna hire someone whose primary job is cleaning full time... Might happen, the labor isn't terrible expensive, but it is an extra expense that piles up.

TT club members are not like military members that you could randomly order to do cleanup detail and supervise them like pissed off Drill SGT... club members doing cleanup is not gunna happen, so we go what we got. Prolly better just give a job, even crappy paying job to someone than to work filthy all the time. May be easy to up the soccer fee a tiny to cover that and the people would notice one of their own got a job and the place looks better... that could happen with a better chance than getting club members to cleanup.

Trade clean up for lessons or free play for some poor kid without any money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2020 at 4:58pm
Hi,

On Wednesday, May 6th, 5 p.m.:  The state of Maryland indicated the high likelihood of opening up the state in Phase I next week.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2020 at 10:15pm
mts, you been around, not that many type in the area. The child labor goon squad would eat the owner alive if he did that though.
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