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On BH mechanics and elbow movements

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    Posted: 05/21/2020 at 10:04pm
I always thought that the BH was more akin to a pressing movement , ie the elbow moves forward from the body during the stroke. 

But I've been watching quite a bit of Fan Zhendong lately, and it seems that his elbow actually goes backwards in a clockwise movement to his waist during hard BH finishing powerloops, which suggests utilisation of the upper back particularly the lats in a pulling movement...

I have recently been shadowing and incorporating this lat pull mechanism and it seems that it's a lot more powerful compared to the more punch like pressing movement I've been using previously.... 

But this is really weird because any kind of pulling movement should theoretically result in force going backwards, but somehow this works?! 
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2020 at 10:34pm
Watch for eg at 53s in slowmo and watch FZD's elbow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2020 at 11:06pm
I am not sure at all but trying to give it a shot, I say you're right for the following reason:

In the bh backswing, the body bends over and the player crouches, those 2 events together make the elbow going backwards a bit and it is accentuated by the fact the paddle goes closer to the belly in that backswing. In the swing, the elbow continues rotating up. For a right handed player that we observe from his bh side, the elbow describes a circular motion anti clockwise: middle, down, middle or 9, 6, 9 o'clock (3 o'clock at the end of the backswing in that rough analogy).

It is worth noting that the circular motion helps recycling energy from the swing to reinject it into the backswing, that would happen less with a more linear motion where the paddle accelerates in the swing, stops at speed 0 before the recovery starts, only to stop again at speed 0 at the end of the backswing. It's the same idea that the fh to fh elliptical trajectory to save energy, the paddle never stops and part of the energy used for a stroke is recycled into the next.

 


Edited by stiltt - 05/21/2020 at 11:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2020 at 12:33am
I've tried my best to isolate the arm movement that I've been talking about here so that people can understand it better...





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NextLevel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2020 at 7:07am
Both are different strokes for different kinds of balls.  The former would more often counter topspin or reflect power and the latter would generate vs backspin or slower balls. But that said, how the body is used to drive the stroke is critical as well.

To explain your confusion, it works because the body is circular.  It really depends at what point on the circle and in what direction your stroke is heading at contact.  Where the stroke ends up is just the natural extrapolation of that.  Very big backhands tend to finish behind the body but so do big forehands, it is just that the part of the stroke post contact is not important for determining where the ball is going but it is part of the stroke for other reasons (you aren't going to be able to stop the force you have generated prior to contact instantaneously.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/22/2020 at 7:11am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2020 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Both are different strokes for different kinds of balls.  The former would more often counter topspin or reflect power and the latter would generate vs backspin or slower balls. But that said, how the body is used to drive the stroke is critical as well.

To explain your confusion, it works because the body is circular.  It really depends at what point on the circle and in what direction your stroke is heading at contact.  Where the stroke ends up is just the natural extrapolation of that.  Very big backhands tend to finish behind the body but so do big forehands, it is just that the part of the stroke post contact is not important for determining where the ball is going but it is part of the stroke for other reasons (you aren't going to be able to stop the force you have generated prior to contact instantaneously.
Yes you are right,  it seems that using the lats to pull creates a clockwise angular force which does add to the force being put on the ball...even though it is a backwards movement, so the idea is that the elbow goes from 3 oclock to 6 o'clock   (backwards) while the bat goes from 9 o'clock to 12'oclock (forward)..

I suspect involving the lats really contributes to the explosiveness of the stroke as it is quite a big power source.... 
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