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    Posted: 01/14/2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

could you tell more about that?
I had tennis elbow a few years ago. I tried a few elbow exercises, the squeeze ball and the gyroball as recommended by the physio, but still had some lingering pain.

I then went in for 12 sessions of ultrasound, 20 mins per session, followed by 15 mins of stretching exercises, and there was noticeable difference after 1 week and after two weeks there was no discomfort.

Looks like this reactive treatment is AFTER you get the table-tennis elbow.

For more of a proactive preventive solution I would suggest wearing elbow brace support.
There are literally 100s of types.
 


While I am the least obsessed with what rubber & blade pros use, table-tennis elbow is one area where you may want to research how pro players address this issue. 
I am especially puzzled when I see lot of pros wearing a small knee brace like the one shown below :-

I suspect backhand looping causes lot of tennis-elbow problems but I am not a doctor (but I play one on internet forums to meet women)
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2021 at 2:18am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

could you tell more about that?
I had tennis elbow a few years ago. I tried a few elbow exercises, the squeeze ball and the gyroball as recommended by the physio, but still had some lingering pain.

I then went in for 12 sessions of ultrasound, 20 mins per session, followed by 15 mins of stretching exercises, and there was noticeable difference after 1 week and after two weeks there was no discomfort.
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Before the lockdown I'd go play tennis everyday. I've always been The Tennis Fanatic in my group, haha. Luckily, I've conviced them to join me too lol. Anyway, I think it was a week or two before the first lockdown when I felt a excruciating pain near the elbow joint. I continued playing of course, as a stubborn grown up man as I am and it did me no good. Few days later I still had the so called tennis elbow. But do you think that stopped me from playing?? No way, I kept playing while taking lots of pain relief medicine and hoped for the best. Needless to say, the pain has spread to my forearm and wrist and I finally went to the doctor. He said if I continued playing for as little as one day, I would have needed surgery :) Almost a half of year later and I feel my best, can't wait to be back in the game ;) hmu if you're up for a match with the next Djokovic hahaha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2021 at 3:45am
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

could you tell more about that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 6:45pm
BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 01/08/2021 at 1:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..

I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball.


See Michael Maze vs. Hao Shuai Wink 

Smash/flat kill is a pretty important and powerful skill at TT. One which is not taught enough sad to say at many levels. Same with bog standard bread and butter driving of backhand and forehand.   Pet coaching peeve over..Cry sorry everyone.

Having tennis or golfer elbow is a total bugger and very easy to stop or highly limit the players play. By injury or issue it's not nice. I have had teams mates have injections, wear bands, stretching etc with them resting for ages. ( Covid is acutally handy for resting from TT! the rest of life not so handy....Cry) It takes sometimes like simas said a not loading the stroke up or Blah's idea of finding another way to try and finish a make a winner. Tricky to balance and the loss of a strong tool in the weapons cabinet.

Cheers



Lol you can kill lobbers just by alternating loopkills with sidespin with dropshots and let them run like Ma Lin doing that to Maze LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 9:16am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..

I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball.


See Michael Maze vs. Hao Shuai Wink 

Smash/flat kill is a pretty important and powerful skill at TT. One which is not taught enough sad to say at many levels. Same with bog standard bread and butter driving of backhand and forehand.   Pet coaching peeve over..Cry sorry everyone.

Having tennis or golfer elbow is a total bugger and very easy to stop or highly limit the players play. By injury or issue it's not nice. I have had teams mates have injections, wear bands, stretching etc with them resting for ages. ( Covid is acutally handy for resting from TT! the rest of life not so handy....Cry) It takes sometimes like simas said a not loading the stroke up or Blah's idea of finding another way to try and finish a make a winner. Tricky to balance and the loss of a strong tool in the weapons cabinet.

Cheers







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..

I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 7:40am
My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.


You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. 



Keep your elbow close, raise your arm (forward), and is impossible to lead with the elbow. When your forearms pivots more around your elbow (which gives you better quality), you can go wrong.

Yeah you can do that too, but like what you said it reduces the quality tremendously...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.


You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. 



Keep your elbow close, raise your arm (forward), and is impossible to lead with the elbow. When your forearms pivots more around your elbow (which gives you better quality), you can go wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper.

I can see how wristy punches would require a lot of forceful wrist action especially if the equipment is slow... It would seem as if loops especially if powered more by the body would in fact be much easier on the elbow....

My elbow flares up whenever I try to play a smash style game. Putting short pips on the forehand, for instance. That forward swing aggravates the elbow for some reason, but when I do nothing but loops against back spin and dead balls... no problems!

If I start trying to play more offensively by counter-driving, counter-looping or executing more forceful fishes then my elbow again flares up. I can chop fine on the forehand side with no problems. The brushier loops are also fine to do continuously. If I try to attack any incoming top spin (where my angle closes and the stroke goes flatter), I'll feel it creeping up in the elbow after a short while. 

On the backhand, it's a bit weirder as well... I can chop fine with OX LP, performing a more forward and downward stroke. However, if I use short pips or inverted on that side for very long (where I must angle my wrist/thumb more parallel to the floor) I'll notice pain starting in the elbow. 

So on the forehand side I can brush loop with no issue... but not hit flatter. On the backhand side I can do the flatter chop stroke... but not brush! For the BH, all I do differently is rotate the wrist. If I hold it like a karate chop style, bam! Pain in the elbow. If I supinate/turn outward slightly, then no real problem. 

I think basically if you allow the supination/extension to happen, it acts like a brake to your stroke, which relieves stresses from your elbow. Also if you involve more of your body it's probably easier (loop vs hit). On all my looping strokes my hands are pretty relaxed these days since I generate power mostly from the legs, the arms just go along for the ride. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.

You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 5:02pm
Note to self... Cancel appointment with Dr. Cole!Disapprove

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 4:32pm
just break your wrist and wear a cast for 7 weeks. You'll be surprised how much better your elbow feels
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.

Edited by pitigoi - 01/05/2021 at 4:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper.

I can see how wristy punches would require a lot of forceful wrist action especially if the equipment is slow... It would seem as if loops especially if powered more by the body would in fact be much easier on the elbow....

My elbow flares up whenever I try to play a smash style game. Putting short pips on the forehand, for instance. That forward swing aggravates the elbow for some reason, but when I do nothing but loops against back spin and dead balls... no problems!

If I start trying to play more offensively by counter-driving, counter-looping or executing more forceful fishes then my elbow again flares up. I can chop fine on the forehand side with no problems. The brushier loops are also fine to do continuously. If I try to attack any incoming top spin (where my angle closes and the stroke goes flatter), I'll feel it creeping up in the elbow after a short while. 

On the backhand, it's a bit weirder as well... I can chop fine with OX LP, performing a more forward and downward stroke. However, if I use short pips or inverted on that side for very long (where I must angle my wrist/thumb more parallel to the floor) I'll notice pain starting in the elbow. 

So on the forehand side I can brush loop with no issue... but not hit flatter. On the backhand side I can do the flatter chop stroke... but not brush! For the BH, all I do differently is rotate the wrist. If I hold it like a karate chop style, bam! Pain in the elbow. If I supinate/turn outward slightly, then no real problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 12:52am
Necroing this topic as I managed to dig more info out:

So in tennis, it's very well known that the one-handed backhand is a cause of many tennis elbow cases. 

There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 
2) Poor technique -> hitting hard without use of the body. 
3) Lack of wrist extension in the followthrough - after a violent stroke, if you do not allow your wrist to break and gently decelerate (which is a braking mechanism), the muscles attached to the elbow will have to withstand a much greater load which it's not designed to do. So something like the wrist followthrough of Persson, Samsonov, Falck, William Henzell who allow the wrist extension to happen during the followthrough are the best.   
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 
5) Bad shoulder or wrist strength, if those muscles can't handle the braking your elbow will, so counterintuitively strengthening those parts is crucial to preventing tennis elbow. Powerballs are apparently incredible for strengthening wrist (forearm muscles), and there's plenty of exercises to strengthen the shoulder muscles.


Edited by blahness - 01/05/2021 at 12:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2020 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Kontra Kontra wrote:

I would say it stimulates muscles and makes them stronger. After 2-3 minutes I feel like lower part of hand is kind of tired or as you said burning but that feeling disappears very fast, almost immediately.
I've used power ball before corona but not really on daily basis and it seemed to me it does the job.

Sounds tempting LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kontra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2020 at 11:41am
I would say it stimulates muscles and makes them stronger. After 2-3 minutes I feel like lower part of hand is kind of tired or as you said burning but that feeling disappears very fast, almost immediately.
I've used power ball before corona but not really on daily basis and it seemed to me it does the job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/09/2020 at 4:49am
Originally posted by Kontra Kontra wrote:

Yes, it does make a difference. There are few instruction videos on youtube how to use it. As I couldn't play during this corona time I decided to put an effort and did warm up/massage/powerball/other exercises/ice on regular basis and I'm happy with overall result. Of course, not playing also helped.

Thanks for the info. The problem I see here, is that it is little bit difficult to exclude the results of powerball, cause at the same time you also stopped playing and did other exercises. Anyways, does it feel that after doing powerball rotations that your forearm is tired or burning (like you feel after for example doing wrist flexing with dumbbells with adequate weight?) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kontra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2020 at 9:19am
Yes, it does make a difference. There are few instruction videos on youtube how to use it. As I couldn't play during this corona time I decided to put an effort and did warm up/massage/powerball/other exercises/ice on regular basis and I'm happy with overall result. Of course, not playing also helped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/08/2020 at 5:27am
Originally posted by Kontra Kontra wrote:

I've joined tennis elbow members club last year. I wanted to sort it out straight away. Plan was to try and treat it without stopping with table tennis. That was right decision as there was only tiny bit of pain and I think I managed to prevent more damage.
Here's link I've found really helpful, I've invested few £ in flexi bar and power ball (dirty cheap on AliExpress)+ I always keep rubber band in my pockets so I can use it when walking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNiJvzjBwA

Link re. massage;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_70oOs9dkwE&t=2s

+ ice pack in the evening while watching tv.

I can't say I'm fully recovered but I feel much better, I can play without any issues, just need to remember to warm up muscles before game.

Hope this helps, good luck to all fellow tennis elbow club members!

Welcome to the club LOL
What are your impressions about powerball? There are a some hype around it. Did you find it useful? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kontra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/07/2020 at 5:23pm
I've joined tennis elbow members club last year. I wanted to sort it out straight away. Plan was to try and treat it without stopping with table tennis. That was right decision as there was only tiny bit of pain and I think I managed to prevent more damage.
Here's link I've found really helpful, I've invested few £ in flexi bar and power ball (dirty cheap on AliExpress)+ I always keep rubber band in my pockets so I can use it when walking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNiJvzjBwA

Link re. massage;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_70oOs9dkwE&t=2s

+ ice pack in the evening while watching tv.

I can't say I'm fully recovered but I feel much better, I can play without any issues, just need to remember to warm up muscles before game.

Hope this helps, good luck to all fellow tennis elbow club members!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2020 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by wilkinru<div><br></div><div>Pretty amazing I'm up to playing 16-18 hours a week now.</div>[/QUOTE wilkinru

Pretty amazing I'm up to playing 16-18 hours a week now.
[/QUOTE wrote:



Lucky guy.  I've got a couple of friends coming to the house, so I'm g

Lucky guy.  I've got a couple of friends coming to the house, so I'm getting around 6 hours a week.  I miss the club atmosphere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2020 at 4:41pm
I was getting tennis elbow on the transition from forehand to backhand. I've changed my technique to involve more legs/torso so now my arm is doing less of this work and my body is doing more.

Pretty amazing I'm up to playing 16-18 hours a week now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/06/2020 at 3:58pm
Yes, I have/ had tennis elbow too. It started some 5 years ago when I was playing and from then from time to time I feel it sometimes...

First thing when it starts, use ice, then rest for a month or smth Ermm.. when you don't feel it start doing special stretches and exercises to strengthen you forehand (lots of exercises on youtube, basically wrist flexing /twisting with a dumbbell). When you start playing use a special tennis elbow strap which helps quite a bit and ads more confidence when playing and as said, try to relax your hand when you play (my FH stroke was quite tensed Imho I suppose..)

If you are lucky it will pass and never return again


Edited by Simas - 07/06/2020 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper.

I can see how wristy punches would require a lot of forceful wrist action especially if the equipment is slow... It would seem as if loops especially if powered more by the body would in fact be much easier on the elbow....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chongqinghotpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/01/2020 at 12:40pm
blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/30/2020 at 11:54pm
watched some more videos, it seems that although the affected area is in the elbow, the tendons are associated with wrist movement... 




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