Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - tennis elbow
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

tennis elbow

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
obesechopper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/20/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 772
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper.

I can see how wristy punches would require a lot of forceful wrist action especially if the equipment is slow... It would seem as if loops especially if powered more by the body would in fact be much easier on the elbow....

My elbow flares up whenever I try to play a smash style game. Putting short pips on the forehand, for instance. That forward swing aggravates the elbow for some reason, but when I do nothing but loops against back spin and dead balls... no problems!

If I start trying to play more offensively by counter-driving, counter-looping or executing more forceful fishes then my elbow again flares up. I can chop fine on the forehand side with no problems. The brushier loops are also fine to do continuously. If I try to attack any incoming top spin (where my angle closes and the stroke goes flatter), I'll feel it creeping up in the elbow after a short while. 

On the backhand, it's a bit weirder as well... I can chop fine with OX LP, performing a more forward and downward stroke. However, if I use short pips or inverted on that side for very long (where I must angle my wrist/thumb more parallel to the floor) I'll notice pain starting in the elbow. 

So on the forehand side I can brush loop with no issue... but not hit flatter. On the backhand side I can do the flatter chop stroke... but not brush! For the BH, all I do differently is rotate the wrist. If I hold it like a karate chop style, bam! Pain in the elbow. If I supinate/turn outward slightly, then no real problem. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
pitigoi View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 06/19/2015
Location: Illinois, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 225
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.

Edited by pitigoi - 01/05/2021 at 4:00pm
Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g)
Left hand: Stiga Allround WRB (71g)/Vega Europe max/Innova Ultra Light max (total 153g)
Fitness Friendship Fun
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6533
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 4:32pm
just break your wrist and wear a cast for 7 weeks. You'll be surprised how much better your elbow feels
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
bes View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/26/2014
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 193
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 5:02pm
Note to self... Cancel appointment with Dr. Cole!Disapprove

bes
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.

You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. 
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by chongqinghotpot chongqinghotpot wrote:

blocking and punching form BH, staying to the table, aggressively, which put a lot of pressure/stress on the elbow. Never a chopper.

I can see how wristy punches would require a lot of forceful wrist action especially if the equipment is slow... It would seem as if loops especially if powered more by the body would in fact be much easier on the elbow....

My elbow flares up whenever I try to play a smash style game. Putting short pips on the forehand, for instance. That forward swing aggravates the elbow for some reason, but when I do nothing but loops against back spin and dead balls... no problems!

If I start trying to play more offensively by counter-driving, counter-looping or executing more forceful fishes then my elbow again flares up. I can chop fine on the forehand side with no problems. The brushier loops are also fine to do continuously. If I try to attack any incoming top spin (where my angle closes and the stroke goes flatter), I'll feel it creeping up in the elbow after a short while. 

On the backhand, it's a bit weirder as well... I can chop fine with OX LP, performing a more forward and downward stroke. However, if I use short pips or inverted on that side for very long (where I must angle my wrist/thumb more parallel to the floor) I'll notice pain starting in the elbow. 

So on the forehand side I can brush loop with no issue... but not hit flatter. On the backhand side I can do the flatter chop stroke... but not brush! For the BH, all I do differently is rotate the wrist. If I hold it like a karate chop style, bam! Pain in the elbow. If I supinate/turn outward slightly, then no real problem. 

I think basically if you allow the supination/extension to happen, it acts like a brake to your stroke, which relieves stresses from your elbow. Also if you involve more of your body it's probably easier (loop vs hit). On all my looping strokes my hands are pretty relaxed these days since I generate power mostly from the legs, the arms just go along for the ride. 
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
pitigoi View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 06/19/2015
Location: Illinois, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 225
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.


You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. 



Keep your elbow close, raise your arm (forward), and is impossible to lead with the elbow. When your forearms pivots more around your elbow (which gives you better quality), you can go wrong.
Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g)
Left hand: Stiga Allround WRB (71g)/Vega Europe max/Innova Ultra Light max (total 153g)
Fitness Friendship Fun
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2021 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:


.........................part of post deleted ....................
There are actually a few factors in the technique side of things that they found in tennis:
1) Elbow leading the stroke - this increases the stress on the elbow significantly. Kreanga's technique is starting to look more and more suspect haha... Basically during contact, the blade should in fact be slightly in front of the elbow, not behind. This means that the wrist is in slight extension rather than flexion during the contact. This is something that almost no one talks about in any BH tutorials. 

.........................part of post deleted ....................
 
4) Not relaxing the grip during the followthrough, similar to 3) 

.........................part of post deleted ....................


My elbow got better and is getting better from 1) and 4). When BH blocking/counter hitting I keep the elbow closer to the body and raise the arm, with less pivot around the elbow. Not as strong/spinny but with my left hand I am counting on the other player generating strength.


You misunderstood 1). 1 is all about having the blade in front of the elbow with the wrist being in slight extension (read it up it's a scientific term) during contact, it's got nothing to do with raising elbow or pivoting around the elbow. 



Keep your elbow close, raise your arm (forward), and is impossible to lead with the elbow. When your forearms pivots more around your elbow (which gives you better quality), you can go wrong.

Yeah you can do that too, but like what you said it reduces the quality tremendously...
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
Simas View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/04/2017
Location: EU
Status: Offline
Points: 442
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 7:40am
My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..
Stiga Offensive Classic Legend
DHS Hurricane Neo3
Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..

I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball.
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
ghostzen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 08/15/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 734
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 9:16am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..

I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball.


See Michael Maze vs. Hao Shuai Wink 

Smash/flat kill is a pretty important and powerful skill at TT. One which is not taught enough sad to say at many levels. Same with bog standard bread and butter driving of backhand and forehand.   Pet coaching peeve over..Cry sorry everyone.

Having tennis or golfer elbow is a total bugger and very easy to stop or highly limit the players play. By injury or issue it's not nice. I have had teams mates have injections, wear bands, stretching etc with them resting for ages. ( Covid is acutally handy for resting from TT! the rest of life not so handy....Cry) It takes sometimes like simas said a not loading the stroke up or Blah's idea of finding another way to try and finish a make a winner. Tricky to balance and the loss of a strong tool in the weapons cabinet.

Cheers







Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 4065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

My elbow is getting better and better the longer the lock-down is... LOLCry

One of the bigger negative factors for my elbow is BH smash. You can't do a smash without extending it forcibly and quickly. With FH smash it's not as bad, but still unconsciously I try not to hit 100% I guess..

I never did a BH or FH smash haha... I can imagine how much stress that would cause... why not just loopkill the ball, it's stable and effective and you can still do quite a bit to the ball.


See Michael Maze vs. Hao Shuai Wink 

Smash/flat kill is a pretty important and powerful skill at TT. One which is not taught enough sad to say at many levels. Same with bog standard bread and butter driving of backhand and forehand.   Pet coaching peeve over..Cry sorry everyone.

Having tennis or golfer elbow is a total bugger and very easy to stop or highly limit the players play. By injury or issue it's not nice. I have had teams mates have injections, wear bands, stretching etc with them resting for ages. ( Covid is acutally handy for resting from TT! the rest of life not so handy....Cry) It takes sometimes like simas said a not loading the stroke up or Blah's idea of finding another way to try and finish a make a winner. Tricky to balance and the loss of a strong tool in the weapons cabinet.

Cheers



Lol you can kill lobbers just by alternating loopkills with sidespin with dropshots and let them run like Ma Lin doing that to Maze LOL
-------
Hurricane Long 5

FH: Dignics 09c
BH: Dignics 09c
Back to Top
ashishsharmaait View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 02/27/2013
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 6:45pm
BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

Edited by ashishsharmaait - 01/08/2021 at 1:27am
Back to Top
Simas View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/04/2017
Location: EU
Status: Offline
Points: 442
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2021 at 3:45am
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

could you tell more about that?
Stiga Offensive Classic Legend
DHS Hurricane Neo3
Donic Bluefire JP01 Turbo
Back to Top
mercury83 View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 01/13/2021
Location: Montreal
Status: Offline
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercury83 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/13/2021 at 8:55am
Before the lockdown I'd go play tennis everyday. I've always been The Tennis Fanatic in my group, haha. Luckily, I've conviced them to join me too lol. Anyway, I think it was a week or two before the first lockdown when I felt a excruciating pain near the elbow joint. I continued playing of course, as a stubborn grown up man as I am and it did me no good. Few days later I still had the so called tennis elbow. But do you think that stopped me from playing?? No way, I kept playing while taking lots of pain relief medicine and hoped for the best. Needless to say, the pain has spread to my forearm and wrist and I finally went to the doctor. He said if I continued playing for as little as one day, I would have needed surgery :) Almost a half of year later and I feel my best, can't wait to be back in the game ;) hmu if you're up for a match with the next Djokovic hahaha
Back to Top
ashishsharmaait View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 02/27/2013
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2021 at 2:18am
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

could you tell more about that?
I had tennis elbow a few years ago. I tried a few elbow exercises, the squeeze ball and the gyroball as recommended by the physio, but still had some lingering pain.

I then went in for 12 sessions of ultrasound, 20 mins per session, followed by 15 mins of stretching exercises, and there was noticeable difference after 1 week and after two weeks there was no discomfort.
Back to Top
deyakshoka View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 02/28/2020
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deyakshoka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/14/2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

BTW, ultrasound therapy works great for tennis elbow. 1MHz, around 1.5 w/sqcm.

could you tell more about that?
I had tennis elbow a few years ago. I tried a few elbow exercises, the squeeze ball and the gyroball as recommended by the physio, but still had some lingering pain.

I then went in for 12 sessions of ultrasound, 20 mins per session, followed by 15 mins of stretching exercises, and there was noticeable difference after 1 week and after two weeks there was no discomfort.

Looks like this reactive treatment is AFTER you get the table-tennis elbow.

For more of a proactive preventive solution I would suggest wearing elbow brace support.
There are literally 100s of types.
 


While I am the least obsessed with what rubber & blade pros use, table-tennis elbow is one area where you may want to research how pro players address this issue. 
I am especially puzzled when I see lot of pros wearing a small knee brace like the one shown below :-

I suspect backhand looping causes lot of tennis-elbow problems but I am not a doctor (but I play one on internet forums to meet women)
 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.