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    Posted: 07/24/2020 at 7:52pm
Saw this video recently and it was very interesting. Basically you push first in a very quick movement and then followthrough as if you were doing a flick. It's almost as if you were doing a hook serve movement during the service receive. So the outgoing ball is a heavy sideunderspin ball but the opponent seeing the fake followthrough might think it's a sidetopspin flick and just dump it into the net. Of course combining it with an actual flick with the same followthrough would confuse the opponent even more...

This can be used on both FH and BH (you could do a sideunderspin chiquita in this manner)

Skip to the end to watch the demonstration....



Edited by blahness - 07/24/2020 at 8:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2020 at 9:10pm
i saw from a mile away that it was a push.  Just look at the contact point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2020 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

i saw from a mile away that it was a push.  Just look at the contact point

Lmao yeah it's kinda obvious if you were paying attention LOL but I guess in a match situation at 10-9 this might just win the game hahaha coz the opponent might be like "wtf is this nonsense" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2020 at 10:20pm
All it takes to miss is a moment of hesitation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chairman Meow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 12:04am
I've seen this too. Tricks like that are most effective when they're used maybe once a game, especially at high stress points (down by one late in the game, deuce, etc). I have a few serves that look totally different but all produce the same garbage, light topspin/sidespin serve that often results in me getting a free point or two. But if I used it every 4 points, it would get killed every time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 1:18am
I really like this. The examples should probably just be looped as they're pretty long - but this might be interesting when pushing short or half long. Some of the examples there for sure would trick me if not used constantly in a match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 3:06pm
Same here, will definitely be trying this out. If it doesn't win a point it'll least get a laugh. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Same here, will definitely be trying this out. If it doesn't win a point it'll least get a laugh. 

Nothing feels better than successfully bamboozling your opponent Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2020 at 11:29pm
It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 7:58am
Fun stroke and nice idea. Bit of a gimick but if it comes off 100% could be a point winning or even matching winning stroke. If it doesn't come off it's the other way of course and the players looks a bit silly trying a high risk stroke. but no guts no glory.  I remember Waldner having a similar stroke stroke in his kitbag.

Nice find
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 9:21am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2020 at 1:03pm
Had a short hit on a friend's robot today and tried a couple of these... not as easy as I'd imagined, would definitely require a fair bit of practice for me to get this looking even half decent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2020 at 1:51pm
That is/was a great player. Played some years ago in Portugal at Sporting Clube de Portugal. One of the best players at the time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2020 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.


Nah, it's not difficult. It's one of those strokes that anyone can learn given 3x 10min sessions on a robot or with a coach. Very useful in pushing rallies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 4:32am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.


Nah, it's not difficult. It's one of those strokes that anyone can learn given 3x 10min sessions on a robot or with a coach. Very useful in pushing rallies.

Definitely not difficult to learn, agree with you. It doesn't seem to be used as much as some years ago from what I've seen. Being on the circuit watching alot of matches do you still see alot of it or other variations btw?. I was referring to getting it short and tight off a return which does need good touch off the bat or it sticks up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 5:02am
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

It's a nice trick to get a point from somebody we don't like and the stare that follows is the warm reward. I'll definitely try, it's the typical shot fun to learn on a robot while being confined.

I wonder if we could ever develop a useful reverse pendulum stroke on those fh balls. we then have more room to mask what spin we put on the ball with the same "topspin" follow through but that's another topic.

I think the normal flick can be modified a bit to look like that with the topspin followthrough without having to resort to the reverse pendulum idea. I've actually had the idea to do a reverse pendulum "push" that in actual fact has sidetopspin on it but that's another topic, I haven't really tried it out.
 

That reverse sidetop "push" is pretty common. Normally use it against a chopper short to bring them in to a shorter ball. that way if they are off to ball kicks and tends to stand up ready for a stronger ball or smash. It's also good when someone drops a short serve back to add a change up. you have to have pretty good touch to make it work or it becomes maybe a bit to obvious.


Nah, it's not difficult. It's one of those strokes that anyone can learn given 3x 10min sessions on a robot or with a coach. Very useful in pushing rallies.

Definitely not difficult to learn, agree with you. It doesn't seem to be used as much as some years ago from what I've seen. Being on the circuit watching alot of matches do you still see a lot of it or other variations btw?. I was referring to getting it short and tight off a return which does need good touch off the bat or it sticks up. 

If you think about what the stroke is trying to achieve, then you realise that every player above beginner uses it in some form. It's just one of the basic rallying tactic.
The player-aim is to try to draw his opponent to push a ball that contains either light backspin or some topspin. The hope is that the opponent having pushed this ball lays himself open for an attacking topspin (usually) stroke.
This happens in every pro match. Pick any match and watch carefully. There is a short heavy push, a heavy push in return seemingly, next ball goes long, then bang. They are now into a topspin rally. Or a variation.


Edited by Tinykin - 08/01/2020 at 5:04am
>65yo, presently overweight rather than obese.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2020 at 5:38am
Really good point and well put. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2020 at 12:42am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

Same here, will definitely be trying this out. If it doesn't win a point it'll least get a laugh. 

Nothing feels better than successfully bamboozling your opponent Wink
Yes a good thing to practice
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