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The tireder I get, the better I play

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mts388 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/24/2020 at 4:53pm
Saturday a friend came to the house at 9 in the morning.  We played 13 matches and he left at 1:00.  Both of us started playing better the longer we played.  Our best matches were matches 11-13.  The play was continuous.  
An hour after he left a better player came to the house to play.  We played 12 matches and he left 3 1/2 hours later.  Our best matches were matches 8-12.  We were attacking from both sides, with good rallies.  The last matches were more competitive and at a higher level.
One of my many problems is that I'm way to aggressive.  By the end of the day the aggression wasn't there.  My legs were very tired when we finished.  I wasn't able to play the next day. 

Maybe when I go to a tournament I should warm up with 10 matches.


Edited by mts388 - 08/24/2020 at 4:54pm
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mickd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 7:24pm
Do you think it might also be a case of your body adjusting to their ball?

I definitely play better the more matches I play with someone in a row. In my case it's because I'm adjusting better to their ball and thus miss a lot less.

It'll be interesting to see if you played 10 matches then played single matches with different people if you perform better!


Edited by mickd - 08/24/2020 at 7:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 7:40pm
Good thinking mickd.  Since we both adjusted to each others play, we felt we were playing better instead of just playing each other better.  A new player may have created a bigger problem that normal since I would be tuned in to my previous opponent and would struggle with someone different.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 7:49pm
One thing my practice partner taught me was to allow your opponent to make the mistake rather than trying to hit absolute winners all the time. It's much easier to vary the spin and placement to create difficulties for your opponent, and only finish off easy balls. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 10:03pm
Some of it is being comfortable and mot much pressure. Some of it is you face equal or better player and you have to make the shots count when you are worn (you cant just out-athlete 'em) - it positively affects your point construction, perception of risk, and drive to win hte point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 10:16pm
Of course basically it should be illusion :) 
The more you are tired the less you are concentrated, so you are less consistent - it's the fact.

But there is always one but :) 

The more you are tired the more you should be relaxed to be able to continue playing.
The more you are relaxed - the better you play ;) 
It's also the fact.

Such a collision :)  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/24/2020 at 11:47pm
mts388,

I think you and benfb should get together and try to set the record for continuous play.  You guys are the only ones I know who think 2hrs play is a rushed warmup and 15 matches a day at Nationals is just not nearly enough.  

Mark - Whose ideal TT day is 5 min of warmup, 30 min of practice, 1 
match (hopefully 3-0), and then a couple of cold Dr. Peppers while watching youtube matches for a couple of hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 12:08am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

mts388,

I think you and benfb should get together and try to set the record for continuous play.  You guys are the only ones I know who think 2hrs play is a rushed warmup and 15 matches a day at Nationals is just not nearly enough.  

Mark - Whose ideal TT day is 5 min of warmup, 30 min of practice, 1 
match (hopefully 3-0), and then a couple of cold Dr. Peppers while watching youtube matches for a couple of hours.

Are you telling me that most 75 year old's don't play 25 matches in a day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 12:10am
I was pretty amazed at the amount of practice too. I usually like to practice lot, but that amount of play would tire anyone out! If it was winter though, I might be up for it :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 12:22am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Some of it is being comfortable and mot much pressure. Some of it is you face equal or better player and you have to make the shots count when you are worn (you cant just out-athlete 'em) - it positively affects your point construction, perception of risk, and drive to win hte point.
I know things I do not like in you and this is one thing I really like in you, yu got it man!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 12:40am
thinking of mts' question I'd say the less worried we are the less tight we play and the best we let go, it is sad that we have to get tired to get to that spiritual level, I would think about having it in place before startin' playin'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 12:51am
You start flowing the more you play, but the counterpoint is that you use less physicality and make more concessions wrt good habits that require energy, at least in my experience and observation.

Your explosive movement when sidestepping becomes rarer, small steps become bigger etc.

If you have insane physicality, the downside is much less pronounced as well as occurring later in the day.

In almost every sport, fatigue is ever-present and terrifying. In table tennis, nothing is more terrifying than being utterly spent, as you simply will miss a lot of shots when you are truly fatigued. 

In this case I believe there's also the 'partner discount' i.e. Getting used to your playing partner.


Edited by Basquests - 08/25/2020 at 12:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/25/2020 at 11:47pm
Better table tennis then boxing, I'm sure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2020 at 5:52am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

One thing my practice partner taught me was to allow your opponent to make the mistake rather than trying to hit absolute winners all the time. It's much easier to vary the spin and placement to create difficulties for your opponent, and only finish off easy balls. 


This works very well at lower levels where matches are mainly won by the player making the lesser amount of mistakes. But players who have this as their main game tactic, tend to lose the 'big ones' to their contempories, in my experience of courseSmile. Mainly because their game is very predictable so the opponent learns where and when to take chances.

Strong players also use this tactic when playing lesser players. That's why you will see lots of matches involving strong player V weak player have relatively high scores. However, this rarely happens at high level unless one player's main tendency is defensive in outlook.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/26/2020 at 6:56am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

One thing my practice partner taught me was to allow your opponent to make the mistake rather than trying to hit absolute winners all the time. It's much easier to vary the spin and placement to create difficulties for your opponent, and only finish off easy balls. 


This works very well at lower levels where matches are mainly won by the player making the lesser amount of mistakes. But players who have this as their main game tactic, tend to lose the 'big ones' to their contempories, in my experience of courseSmile. Mainly because their game is very predictable so the opponent learns where and when to take chances.

Strong players also use this tactic when playing lesser players. That's why you will see lots of matches involving strong player V weak player have relatively high scores. However, this rarely happens at high level unless one player's main tendency is defensive in outlook.

There's actually room for many different styles in TT not just powerlooping everything. Even pushblocker who doesn't even attack got to a very high level. If you have deceptive spin and placement variations done with consistency you can go very far in amateur circles. Attacking hard blindly is usually a bad strategy because of unforced errors and blocks which put you in a bad position. 

Imo I've had the best results when I did both so that the opponent doesn't adjust. I used to try to 3rd ball everything and I was losing to players I shouldn't lose to all the time. Especially players with good blocks and counterattacks who feed off the pace you give them (very annoying!). 

For eg on a short pop up far from you, you can 
1) flick kill the ball (riskier and you risk losing your position if it does get blocked)
2) return it short (safer, useful if your opponent already tried to back away from the table)
3) do a hard angled sidespin push to drive them to one side thereby opening up the rest of the table
4) soft flick (with all sorts of different spin) to their middle to induce an error or to force them to attack in an awkward position. 

Same goes for loops.... You can do sidespin loops (both hook and fade), slow spinny loops, fake loops in addition to powerlooping and I feel it actually gives me way better results to mix it up. 

Edit: but against much higher rated players where you stand no chance playing safe (they probably have even more control and variation than you), it is probably better just to surprise them and attack them hard haha... More chances to win this way LOL


Edited by blahness - 08/26/2020 at 7:07am
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