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    Posted: 09/06/2020 at 8:27pm
Has anyone tried to play tennis with a table tennis background?

How well does the strokes transfer across?
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Usually: Great forehand. Backhand does not translate at all. Spinny serve. Net play is easy.

This is across about a dozen table tennis players I know who also play tennis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 8:49pm
Fred Perry was a champion at both sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2020 at 9:14pm
Principles for 'swing' sports like tennis, table tennis and golf (to some extent baseball) run across the board:  weight transfer, using the hips to start your arm motion.  And having a relaxed body and arm before and after striking the ball.

The tennis forehand (topspin) is quite different from Table tennis if you are talking about 'textbook' fundamentals.  Tennis FH you need a pronounced 'unit turn' of your upper body and the entire key to power is not only the hips, but also creating a "lag" with your racket and then that lag is a huge part of your power and spin generation.  Backhand of course is quite different, but you also looking to create lag as well.

It should be said in both sports people at the amateur/club level can have what looks like below average fundamentals (people just using their arm to strike the ball) and they too can be really good at the sport.  

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2020 at 8:45pm
Back when there were set seasons for sports many people played tennis in summer and table tennis in winter
Tennis players can have nice out swinging forehand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2020 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by DarkerMyLove DarkerMyLove wrote:

Principles for 'swing' sports like tennis, table tennis and golf (to some extent baseball) run across the board:  weight transfer, using the hips to start your arm motion.  And having a relaxed body and arm before and after striking the ball.

The tennis forehand (topspin) is quite different from Table tennis if you are talking about 'textbook' fundamentals.  Tennis FH you need a pronounced 'unit turn' of your upper body and the entire key to power is not only the hips, but also creating a "lag" with your racket and then that lag is a huge part of your power and spin generation.  Backhand of course is quite different, but you also looking to create lag as well.

It should be said in both sports people at the amateur/club level can have what looks like below average fundamentals (people just using their arm to strike the ball) and they too can be really good at the sport.  

 

I've heard of the infamous 'pusher' style in tennis which is kinda similar to the pushblocker style in TT which looks terrible but apparently works to quite a high level! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkerMyLove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2020 at 2:04am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I've heard of the infamous 'pusher' style in tennis which is kinda similar to the pushblocker style in TT which looks terrible but apparently works to quite a high level! LOL

The pusher is real. LOL  And also a 'lobber'.  I even played a guy who was a 100% 'slicer' (chopper) which I think is rare.

Saw this a month back in my feed and he looks like a nightmare to play with.  Guy is 4.5 level which for amateur level is very high.

The comments on the video are pretty funny too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2020 at 3:52am
Originally posted by DarkerMyLove DarkerMyLove wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I've heard of the infamous 'pusher' style in tennis which is kinda similar to the pushblocker style in TT which looks terrible but apparently works to quite a high level! LOL

The pusher is real. LOL  And also a 'lobber'.  I even played a guy who was a 100% 'slicer' (chopper) which I think is rare.

Saw this a month back in my feed and he looks like a nightmare to play with.  Guy is 4.5 level which for amateur level is very high.

The comments on the video are pretty funny too.


I had a big laugh watching it, it's exactly like the pushblockers in TT, just block down everything and outlast your opponent lol...also they too use a lot of underspin strokes similar to pushblockers!

Lmao at the comments, he seems to attract as much hate as pushblockers on TT forums....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2020 at 9:52am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Has anyone tried to play tennis with a table tennis background?

How well does the strokes transfer across?

Hi,

[Here are observations on the opposite sequence: the tennis player trying table tennis.]

Having coached for decades, I have considerable experience coaching former accomplished tennis players in the process of learning table tennis.  Two tendencies have emerged in these experiences that are frequently found.

1)  Either explicitly or otherwise, a sense exists with some that tennis is a major, formidable sport (which it is) and that table tennis is less so in a number of fundamental respects.  Due to their prior tennis accomplishments, this produces an anticipation in the student of early and significant success in attain high proficiency in a short period of time.  Never have I witnesses this anticipation be realized.

2)  Even more interesting than point 1) above, one quality of table tennis rises to prominence as the greatest source of difficulty for the accomplished tennis player striving for competency in table tennis.  This table tennis quality is deception.  Deception, with a particular emphasis on the deception associated with ball spin, has a very great presence in table tennis, a standing far exceeding that of tennis.  The nature of deception is directly associated with precise and intricate powers of perception requirements on the player.  In this regard, the tennis player is very undeveloped and consistently it is found to be the primary source of the magnificent challenges the sport of table tennis poses for the accomplished tennis player.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2020 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by DarkerMyLove DarkerMyLove wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I've heard of the infamous 'pusher' style in tennis which is kinda similar to the pushblocker style in TT which looks terrible but apparently works to quite a high level! LOL

The pusher is real. LOL  And also a 'lobber'.  I even played a guy who was a 100% 'slicer' (chopper) which I think is rare.

Saw this a month back in my feed and he looks like a nightmare to play with.  Guy is 4.5 level which for amateur level is very high.

The comments on the video are pretty funny too.


I had a big laugh watching it, it's exactly like the pushblockers in TT, just block down everything and outlast your opponent lol...also they too use a lot of underspin strokes similar to pushblockers!

Lmao at the comments, he seems to attract as much hate as pushblockers on TT forums....

Vic Braden would have called this guy a dinker, not hitting hard but relying on keeping the ball in play and patience, with a higher frustration/tolerance threshold than his opponent. Gravity will bring the ball down, so long as it's reasonably deep it's hard to hit it past him. He waits for you to become frustrated and try things that are low percentage, or get yourself out of position trying to hit winners.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 12:21am
You'all beat down dude for slicing and drop shotting too much, but the fact is, that dude had great setups and execution of passing shots when the opponent didn't fall for high risk stuff. Dude could finsih points with offense when he wanted... sure it wasn't 100 mph in your face macho man stuff, but he had offense when he wanted it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 2:49pm
With a dozen of free lighted courts less than a mile around my house, I play tennis once a week now that tt is out of the picture for a foreseeable future and I get beat regularly by a friend who does not take risks and just lets me crumble. I am in the process of being more patient and we go 64, 75 now, my day is coming as he says :) 
It's amazing at our level how easy it is to lob or unload a soft passing shot when one comes to the net, we do not need to force much, focusing on placement is enough. That's what the guy in the video does well. I can learn a lot from him. That FH slice is kind of ugly though, I use it only when I am desperate but he shamelessly uses it on a casual basis even when he does not have to move LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 10:27pm
I must chime in, because I have gone back and forth between both these sports over the years. 2 wing looper in table tennis. Same in Tennis, but have a two hand backhand, which I recommend, because it's equivalent to the two wing looper. If you are a traditional penhold player, then you may prefer the one hand backhand.  

1. The physics are the same, but getting there is slightly different, because the racket is longer in tennis. So imagine the tennis racket being your arm in table tennis. 

2. The grips are different. If you use a shakehand table tennis grip, you will hurt yourself and not have stability(believe me I tried). But once you get used to the new grip(recommend the semi western for you 2 wing loopers) the ball physics are very similar. 

3. Both sports have a crazy high learning curve. Plan not to have fun for many years.. There is this one Tennis player I know that plays 6 hours everyday, and get lessons on the daily. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 2:57am
You guys should set up a Rackleton association in your local area.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 8:13am
mmmh the only reason I am back to tennis is I want to hit a ball outside waiting for a COVID vaccine and better days for indoors tt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2020 at 12:47pm
This discussion motivated me to do a little tennis practice. It had just rained in my area, so the outdoor courts were empty and I decided to try some serve practice. I discovered that I'm a lot more comfortable serving from the ad court. (Also, the tennis serve is nothing like the TT serve).

A masseuse practicing social distancing rubs me the wrong way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2020 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

This discussion motivated me to do a little tennis practice. It had just rained in my area, so the outdoor courts were empty and I decided to try some serve practice. I discovered that I'm a lot more comfortable serving from the ad court. (Also, the tennis serve is nothing like the TT serve).


I'd rather face your tennis serves than your TT serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2020 at 5:53pm
a French funny guy said once that ping pong and tennis are the same but in tennis you are standing on the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2020 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

a French funny guy said once that ping pong and tennis are the same but in tennis you are standing on the table.

Hahah so true! I would also love to be able to throw the ball up and deliver a smash as a serve LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2020 at 7:24am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

This discussion motivated me to do a little tennis practice. It had just rained in my area, so the outdoor courts were empty and I decided to try some serve practice. I discovered that I'm a lot more comfortable serving from the ad court. (Also, the tennis serve is nothing like the TT serve).


Two questions:

1)  How did you fix the slanted court?

2)  What, specifically, did you do to develop that very impressive vertical you demonstrated late in the recording?

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2020 at 7:53am
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

I must chime in, because I have gone back and forth between both these sports over the years. 2 wing looper in table tennis. Same in Tennis, but have a two hand backhand, which I recommend, because it's equivalent to the two wing looper. If you are a traditional penhold player, then you may prefer the one hand backhand.  

1. The physics are the same, but getting there is slightly different, because the racket is longer in tennis. So imagine the tennis racket being your arm in table tennis. 

2. The grips are different. If you use a shakehand table tennis grip, you will hurt yourself and not have stability(believe me I tried). But once you get used to the new grip(recommend the semi western for you 2 wing loopers) the ball physics are very similar. 

3. Both sports have a crazy high learning curve. Plan not to have fun for many years.. There is this one Tennis player I know that plays 6 hours everyday, and get lessons on the daily. 

Interestingly, I recommend the opposite WRT to the BH, whilst agreeing about the other stuff obviously.



Playing using a 1H BH in tennis for a few hours literally transformed my TT BH and badminton BH completely. I went from being a player that just pushes or blocks on the BH, to being considered by others to be a BH dominant player. That video is a 20 second video of me doing some FH / BH smashes against NZ's #2 TT player, a few weeks or months after playing tennis for a couple of hours.

If you notice, I even hold the racquet similarly to a tennis player after executing a BH smash, because it helped in the initial phases of learning, to keep tension/angle's correct.

For a TT forehand, we like to keep a certain distance 'x' laterally between say our shoulder and the ball. This allows us to make a reproducible shot - if you chicken wing some shots and are stretching for others, you cannot form a consistent stroke.

For any high BH, you can use this same premise to step into your BH in tennis or table tennis, with a fully arm swing, much like the pros do when going for a big winner in tennis.

For an example, this is essentially a very early 'version' of this in practice and it is immediately consistent.



I tested my theory by taking on a stranger, who'd probably be around 1800 USATT [1400 in Australia], and spending 10 minutes teaching him to BH smash. He was able to do so consistently using this same action, despite being a very rough player technically, and simply got by other players a tiny bit weaker by having good hand eye coordination.

Basically, watch Wawrinka's BH and copy the fundamentals. 

After developing the BH smash, i started rallying by having my BH to the side, rather than in front of me. This allows for the leverage of your elbow, and allows you to accelerate a BH rally if the pace isn't fast. Very similiar concept to a tradition bicep based BH loop.


How to play tennis as a TT player

Most TT players find a FH to transfer reasonably well across, its just you need to adjust the numbers a bit, the process is the same. 

Get your feet in a good location to play the FH, not too close not too far from the ball, time the swing, and swing 'correctly.'

Finding the location, timing and correct swing all involve trial and error / watching tennis. However, you've practiced getting to a certain distance in TT, in tennis its simply a bit further away - not hard to adjust to. Timing the ball is very easy as you are a TT player, the difficulty is simply finding the right timing for each stroke, again trial and error followed by reps.

Swinging correctly simply revolves around watching pros and guides and trying to replicate a decent technique. This is the only thing that should take a longer time to me, as TT helps you a lot for the other 2.

Exact same process for every other shot; a BH topspin is about managing your foot distance to prepare, getting the timing right, and getting your action right. Any slice [FH or BH] same.

Once you have those down, its simply getting a service, and there are many guides for that. Being able to toss a ball is familiar, but its to a different height. Timing the swing is familiar, but from above your head in that way takes a bit of adjusting.


Edited by Basquests - 09/12/2020 at 8:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2020 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:


Interestingly, I recommend the opposite WRT to the BH, whilst agreeing about the other stuff obviously.



Playing using a 1H BH in tennis for a few hours literally transformed my TT BH and badminton BH completely. I went from being a player that just pushes or blocks on the BH, to being considered by others to be a BH dominant player. That video is a 20 second video of me doing some FH / BH smashes against NZ's #2 TT player, a few weeks or months after playing tennis for a couple of hours.

If you notice, I even hold the racquet similarly to a tennis player after executing a BH smash, because it helped in the initial phases of learning, to keep tension/angle's correct.

I like your BH smash. Although it looks a bit on the wild side at first glance, you apparently gained consistency with it. I think the dominant BH stance is key. 
Traditional teaching of foot position in TT is having left foot forward for the FH and feet square for BH to allow for quick transitioning between the two strokes. I've always felt that if one has time to take a stance with right foot forward on a loose ball to the BH, why not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2020 at 8:26am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Two questions:

1)  How did you fix the slanted court?

I remounted the camera to the link fence.

2)  What, specifically, did you do to develop that very impressive vertical you demonstrated late in the recording?

Ingenuity

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2020 at 11:04am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:


Interestingly, I recommend the opposite WRT to the BH, whilst agreeing about the other stuff obviously.



Playing using a 1H BH in tennis for a few hours literally transformed my TT BH and badminton BH completely. I went from being a player that just pushes or blocks on the BH, to being considered by others to be a BH dominant player. That video is a 20 second video of me doing some FH / BH smashes against NZ's #2 TT player, a few weeks or months after playing tennis for a couple of hours.

If you notice, I even hold the racquet similarly to a tennis player after executing a BH smash, because it helped in the initial phases of learning, to keep tension/angle's correct.

I like your BH smash. Although it looks a bit on the wild side at first glance, you apparently gained consistency with it. I think the dominant BH stance is key. 
Traditional teaching of foot position in TT is having left foot forward for the FH and feet square for BH to allow for quick transitioning between the two strokes. I've always felt that if one has time to take a stance with right foot forward on a loose ball to the BH, why not.

Cheers, yes, it was very nascent there, but still consistent...as long as I've warmed up the shot. For some reason, whether its FH or BH smashing, I take a few minutes to get going, so its now mandatory as part of any session.

Fortunately I've now adapted my entire BH, from passive play, rallying BH-BH, BH open up all the way to full power smashes, to incorporate some aspect of the tennis style

The funniest thing is every badminton and TT player I meet thinks I'm a tennis player! 

I think from slicing [pushing] to emphasis on using body rotation on attacking shotsetc. we have a lot to learn from tennis as well. As someone said earlier, tennis players have a lot to learn about deception!




Edited by Basquests - 09/12/2020 at 11:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2020 at 2:53pm
Great post Basquests, very technical and informative. 

I think the Tennis one hand backhand is similar to the JPen style(Ryu Seung Min) or TT forehand dominate players. 
Federer and Wawrinka have to run and jump back to hit a high topspin backhand, similar to how Ryu Seung Min runs around for a forehand smash. Or they slice, which is equivalent to the TPH block.
I originally had a Tennis one hand backhand. I hated having to take extra steps and run around for backhands, I was used to the stoic TT backhand, you can hit a winner without moving the feet. 
With the Tennis two hand backhand I am able to topspin any ball, at any position without having to run back 10 feet. Similar to how a TT two wing looper can cover the whole table without moving.


Edited by popperlocker - 09/12/2020 at 2:59pm
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