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TBS 89g v 92g

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Rollko View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/09/2020 at 10:27am
Hi All, 

I've got an opportunity to order Timo Boll Spirit FL either a 89g one or 92g. I'm not concerned about the head heaviness, just the overall weight. I'd like it to be stiff and crisp but not too heavy - would 89g be too flexible? Would 92g play too heavy? 

Thanks


Edited by Rollko - 09/09/2020 at 10:28am
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kindof99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 10:40am
Really don't think 3g will make that much a difference. But if you don't want the paddle too heavy, 89g seems to be a better choice as the playing characteristic will not be that much difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hipnotic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 12:39pm
With commercial blades you don't know where the difference is. Is it the handle? Is it the blade itself? The handles on commercial blades are made of fineline, which is pretty consistent, so there is low variation between batches. Most likely the difference is in the blade itself. But is the core that is heavier? Is it the medial ply? Is it the top ply? The amount of glue? Too many variables... A 3g difference in the core isn't much, it's pretty normal actually, however a 3g difference in the top or medial ply is considerable. That's more than the difference of having limba vs koto for example, so naturally the heavier one will feel harder and stiffer if this is the case. But again, with commercial blades we will never know...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 2:40pm
How about finding one that is 90.5 grams so you get the best from both? Big smile 

Joke aside, always go with the heaviest that you can handle. Here, 3 grams are not going to throw your game off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

How about finding one that is 90.5 grams so you get the best from both? Big smile 

Joke aside, always go with the heaviest that you can handle. Here, 3 grams are not going to throw your game off.

stiltt, 

why would you recommend going with the heaviest blade one can handle? is that because heavier blades are stiffer and thus play more consistently? 

my current set up including the overgrip is 181g, with a 93g blade, which is not the end of the world but feels a bit heavy sometimes. And I'm using light short pips on BH - surely a 93g blade with two tenergies (or even worse, dignics) would shoot up to 200g - is that the standard among pros? I don't think they're using light blades and if they put on tenergies/dignics, and we do the maths...

I've got a fairly light TBS weighing only 86g - the bounce test on the bare blade returns lower pitch, and the blade feels a bit too flexible as well. The 93g Zhang Jike ALC I have feels much more solid, less flexible and more predictable and direct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2020 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

why would you recommend going with the heaviest blade one can handle? is that because heavier blades are stiffer and thus play more consistently? 

my current set up including the overgrip is 181g, with a 93g blade, which is not the end of the world but feels a bit heavy sometimes. And I'm using light short pips on BH - surely a 93g blade with two tenergies (or even worse, dignics) would shoot up to 200g - is that the standard among pros? I don't think they're using light blades and if they put on tenergies/dignics, and we do the maths...

I've got a fairly light TBS weighing only 86g - the bounce test on the bare blade returns lower pitch, and the blade feels a bit too flexible as well. The 93g Zhang Jike ALC I have feels much more solid, less flexible and more predictable and direct.

I agree with stiltt about using the heaviest blade you can handle. 

In my opinion, heavy blades counter-intuitively allow for a more relaxed upper body and looser grip when looping or driving the ball, as the blade's weight and momentum mean you only need to initiate a body turn and let your arm whip through the ball to achieve a high quality "effortless" attack. This is particularly great for stability at mid-distance where you have time to more easily access body rotation and weight transfer, but requires more arm/wrist strength to handle the racket close to the table as weight increases. And with the amount of physical conditioning most pros go through, I think its entirely possible some of their rackets weigh nearly 190-200g+.

However I've found that blade weight and stiffness are not absolutely correlated. My two HL5 blades are about 4g apart and the heavier blade feels more flexible, but in the past I've had other pairs of blades with the opposite finding as well. I think the variables Hipnotic mentioned in the blades' composition/manufacturing will have more of an effect on stiffness than what we can observe through just weight.


Edited by schen - 09/09/2020 at 9:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 3:34am
Those are valid points, schen, thanks.

Another option would be to use something much faster and stiffer like Primorac Carbon, but in lighter weight, maybe 87-89g. I wonder how that would play compared with a 92g TBS? Not sure if Primorac Carbon is stiff to begin with though, I've read that it's actually not that stiff at all. Are there any carbon/tamca5000 blades that are very stiff even if lighter?


Edited by Rollko - 09/10/2020 at 3:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pritchett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 8:38am
Whether 89g or 92g makes hardly any difference, I think. But if I were you, I would choose the heavier one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chongqinghotpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 8:50pm
if you stay with short pips on your BH, go with the 92 g one. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by schen schen wrote:

Originally posted by Rollko Rollko wrote:

why would you recommend going with the heaviest blade one can handle? is that because heavier blades are stiffer and thus play more consistently? 

my current set up including the overgrip is 181g, with a 93g blade, which is not the end of the world but feels a bit heavy sometimes. And I'm using light short pips on BH - surely a 93g blade with two tenergies (or even worse, dignics) would shoot up to 200g - is that the standard among pros? I don't think they're using light blades and if they put on tenergies/dignics, and we do the maths...

I've got a fairly light TBS weighing only 86g - the bounce test on the bare blade returns lower pitch, and the blade feels a bit too flexible as well. The 93g Zhang Jike ALC I have feels much more solid, less flexible and more predictable and direct.

I agree with stiltt about using the heaviest blade you can handle. 

In my opinion, heavy blades counter-intuitively allow for a more relaxed upper body and looser grip when looping or driving the ball, as the blade's weight and momentum mean you only need to initiate a body turn and let your arm whip through the ball to achieve a high quality "effortless" attack. This is particularly great for stability at mid-distance where you have time to more easily access body rotation and weight transfer, but requires more arm/wrist strength to handle the racket close to the table as weight increases. And with the amount of physical conditioning most pros go through, I think its entirely possible some of their rackets weigh nearly 190-200g+.

However I've found that blade weight and stiffness are not absolutely correlated. My two HL5 blades are about 4g apart and the heavier blade feels more flexible, but in the past I've had other pairs of blades with the opposite finding as well. I think the variables Hipnotic mentioned in the blades' composition/manufacturing will have more of an effect on stiffness than what we can observe through just weight.
the bold part is so well said (hey! the rest is too Smile), we can read in those words somebody who put in the hours of practice, including the thinking and spiritual part of it, just like nextlevel and mickd.

edit: I see you all 3 above my tt level just because you 3 have put more hours in so I admire you and my level (whatever that means) runs after yours, see you at the clubhouse.


Edited by stiltt - 09/10/2020 at 9:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2020 at 10:03pm
I find it interesting Timo Boll seems more concerned about his rubber sheet weight than blade weight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2020 at 4:19am
Because they are selected 90gr. each.
I'm more interested what material is applied on the handles against the sweat's slippery, cause i can't play without grip tape. Sometimes 1.5 kg down after 2 hours of play LOL


Edited by Vlad0 - 09/11/2020 at 4:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/11/2020 at 10:07am
Originally posted by Vlad0 Vlad0 wrote:

Because they are selected 90gr. each.
I'm more interested what material is applied on the handles against the sweat's slippery, cause i can't play without grip tape. Sometimes 1.5 kg down after 2 hours of play LOL

Vlad,

I definitely agree that the weight must have been selected, but are you sure they're 90g each? I would expect pros to have them a bit heavier, 92-93g? Or is this to compensate for super heavy dignics?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vlad0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2020 at 2:09am
Rollko
Yes, Timo answered personally that they are 90 g. each. There were rumors in the past that he use 95g.


Edited by Vlad0 - 09/14/2020 at 2:09am
Timo Boll ZLF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2020 at 6:32am
Be very careful when using heavy bats, say >190g without first strengthening the wrist area.

I am not a health professional.

However, from personal experience, it is ok for amateur players who don't train or play a lot to use heavy blades with all their advantages for play. But if those on-table hours are great per week, wrist problems  around the wrist itself plus the thumb/index finger area start to show up.
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