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2020 Men's World Cup, Nov. 13-15 China

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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2020 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

China should prepare WCQ for the Olympics more seriously.

The ML in this match was in pretty good form, but he struggled through matches...
That's my concern, the flamboyant Ma Long is not there all the time, he pops sometimes. The adjustment to high toss serve argument is strong but I can't help watching Harimoto's unforced errors from 3-1 on that he was not making before; that's not necessarily related to any adjustment, I think the pressure was just too high and something gave up, a bit like Ma Long v. Wang Hao back in the days. Ma Long cannot beat a Harimoto playing like in game 2, 3 and 4, I am not sure anybody can.
As Andy Murray said losing the 2012 Wimbledon final the year before he finally won it: "I am getting closer."

IT wasn't just the high toss serve.  He started covering the down the line shot better and started looping with more arc to make it harder for Harimoto to time the ball.  It was a hard performance, and yes, Harimoto is on the ascendancy, but Ma Long's form is extremely high.  For me, the main fix he needs to make is to be able to redirect the ball down the line - the one time he tried it, Fan didn't even touch the ball and the redirect wasn't even that good.

He doesn't have the BH fade topspin down the line unlike Harimoto and Fan Zhendong... The reason why Harimoto and Fan Zhendong's down the line BHs are so deadly is because the fading sidespin increases the angle (and thus distance needed to be covered) so much more compared to a normal BH down the line counter. 

I recently started training the BH fade (as well as fade topspin), and I already noticed how deadly it is to right handers, especially if you also have the normal BH sidespin which curves the other way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2020 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

China should prepare WCQ for the Olympics more seriously.

The ML in this match was in pretty good form, but he struggled through matches...
That's my concern, the flamboyant Ma Long is not there all the time, he pops sometimes. The adjustment to high toss serve argument is strong but I can't help watching Harimoto's unforced errors from 3-1 on that he was not making before; that's not necessarily related to any adjustment, I think the pressure was just too high and something gave up, a bit like Ma Long v. Wang Hao back in the days. Ma Long cannot beat a Harimoto playing like in game 2, 3 and 4, I am not sure anybody can.
As Andy Murray said losing the 2012 Wimbledon final the year before he finally won it: "I am getting closer."

IT wasn't just the high toss serve.  He started covering the down the line shot better and started looping with more arc to make it harder for Harimoto to time the ball.  It was a hard performance, and yes, Harimoto is on the ascendancy, but Ma Long's form is extremely high.  For me, the main fix he needs to make is to be able to redirect the ball down the line - the one time he tried it, Fan didn't even touch the ball and the redirect wasn't even that good.

He doesn't have the BH fade topspin down the line unlike Harimoto and Fan Zhendong... The reason why Harimoto and Fan Zhendong's down the line BHs are so deadly is because the fading sidespin increases the angle (and thus distance needed to be covered) so much more compared to a normal BH down the line counter. 

I recently started training the BH fade (as well as fade topspin), and I already noticed how deadly it is to right handers, especially if you also have the normal BH sidespin which curves the other way. 

That much is obvious.  That doesn't mean he shouldn't put the ball there occasionally even with his regular backhand.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2020 at 7:30pm
to define and teach easily the "bh fade" (nice name), I would simply recommend block/counter on the (right for righties) side of the ball with the head up and the handle tag pointing perpendicular at the table. Is that clear enough? can we compress further?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2020 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

to define and teach easily the "bh fade" (nice name), I would simply recommend block/counter on the (right for righties) side of the ball with the head up and the handle tag pointing perpendicular at the table. Is that clear enough? can we compress further?

To be honest what I found is that the preparatory position should be exactly the same as a diagonal BH with normal sidespin (ie your bat position should be exactly the same, if it's different it's so easy for your opponent to read it beforehand), it's just at contact you move your elbow to the right so that you can brush the right side of the ball. For me that means the bat is still horizontal (ie the tip is pointing towards the left) just like a normal BH.

I'm actually also trying to get the hang of the BH fade (pure sidespin) as a service receive option too, it's like a whole new stroke family. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2020 at 6:01am
Fan Zhendong collecting world cup titles like Pokemon lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2020 at 6:11am
Fantastic match to be honest by them both . 11-9 in the 7th tight as result. The timing of Fan's backhand down the line in the context of the point was always interesting. ML really was a way a way from it at times and off balance to say the least until he started to find a bit more. It was precise to say the least from Fan. Great for ML to stay in the match and ramp things up. Little bit of loss of thought maybe when he was up to take it into the 7th and final end. Big lead 10-2 and then 10-7 i think. Chance to put Fan under the cosh a bit more. Very very fine margins mind.

It seems Fan peppered (pace +- spin as well) the ML backhand middle and then wide then middle then waited for the pivot forehand from ML and when it opened the space ...make the winner. outstanding. Adding a kicker sidespin off BH loop (Ala almost Waldner) is the icing on the cake. Almsot like a chess move. I did wonder when/if ML would hold that backhand side and start to turn the wide if he could.

Also Fan's backhand flick is outstanding from his forehand middle. The winner at 9-10 in the 7th was perfect. Thumbs Up

Fades etc have been around for years nothing new on that one but these guys are taking it to a level which is much much higher and outstanding. A wonder to watch for me.










Edited by ghostzen - 11/16/2020 at 6:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2020 at 8:07am
Hi,

On the equipment side of the World Cups, two things.

1)  Viscaria: Chen Meng used Viscaria

According to one source, Fan uses a Viscaria too:

Specifically, Fan Zhendong uses a blade (refers to the wood part of the table tennis paddle) from the Japanese table tennis company Butterfly, despite being sponsored by Swedish company Stiga.

Judging from its material composition (the wood and carbon layers), his blade appears to be a Viscaria model (from Butterfly), but disguised with the handle of the Stiga (his sponsor) blade he claims (0:48) to be using (Infinity VPS V model).


2)  Rubber performance:  It was not apparent that there was a rubber advantage with any of the players, as there had been in the past.  

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2020 at 10:06am
A video interview from 2015 really should not be used to make claims about FZD's equipment in 2020 ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2020 at 12:07pm
[QUOTE=DonnOlsen]Hi,

 How do you judge  blade composition of a blade you never had in your hands?.
Who is your source?
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