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    Posted: 10/14/2020 at 2:37am
For last 3 months I have been drilling with a 1600 rated player 2-3 times a week for about an hour each session.  Sessions are short because we play just before club opens and I quit as soon as 3 more people show up.  So they are more like long warmups than true drilling sessions.

Anyway, since the start I have felt like I was playing with a 2200 level player.  His Bh blocks were too quick for me to loop more than twice in a row  (like mini loops right off bounce).  When he looped with Bh, I almost always missed a block before he missed a loop.  When he looped with his Fh I was lucky to block 2 in a row.  In opening drill where I pushed long to random locations he hardly missed landing any loops unless the push was outside the corner where he just could not get to it.  And his loops were mostly winners, but even when I managed to block aggressively or counter attack he just put away the 5th ball.  When I tried to open his pushes were so fast and had so much spin that I missed the loop even when he pushed to a fixed side.  When I did land an opening loop most of the time he just hit a counterloop winner (from either wing).  I really felt like I was not giving him any real practice.

Over the 3 months I have gotten a little better so that I can block 5-6 balls in a row and sometimes he even makes the first mistake.  However he still continued to counter-attack what I considered strong loops like I was just blocking instead of looping.  So on my last day at the club, I asked him to play me a match.  Boy did it go unexpectedly.

I won 3-0 (11-9,11-8,11-7).  But even then I felt like he played better than I did.  I only won 2 points (out of maybe 20) where a 4th ball or beyond was played. I only won the point on my serve (or got an easy put away) or with a good serve return he missed.  He had a lot more trouble with opening my long pushes than in the drill we did.  Maybe it was because in the game I could push short and loop half-long serves instead of just pushing short.  I do not think I won a single point with a third ball attack that was not against some kind of short high return where the serve really won the point.  He just destroyed me with great 5th balls even when I thought I had hit a quality 4th ball that should have had him on the defensive.

So I win the match and yet still leave the table feeling my overall game is even worse than I thought it was practicing with him (and that thought was that it was pretty bad).  Some day I want to play a match and come out feeling my game has improved.  So far I think that has only happened once in about 10 yrs.

Mark - A loser even when he wins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 3:52am
He had bad strategy. Someone like him should just serve sidetopspin long to force the rally lol.... And on the receive just push it long or soft flick it, again to force the rally, which he seems to be dominant at. 

If I'm better than the other guy at rallying, I do the same thing: exclusively long fast serves, simplify the receive by going long and deep on the receive, safe blocking any opening loops and then play out the rally. 

Unfortunately that doesn't happen often, and I usually have to really complicate the game because the players around me usually have way better rallying skills than me :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 11:43am
Mark,

Interesting post which got me thinking and rambling.  There are three things to consider - all of which you are surely aware of...

1) Most players below the "seriously expert" level practice and warm up at a much higher apparent level than they actually play*.  This is most pronounced when certain lower (compared to other guy) players hit with their coach or a much better player.  They get balls with consistent speed, spin, depth, and placement which can make a player with decent technique look much, much stronger.  Even when doing transition or footwork drills, the blocks are comfortable and almost always go exactly where (and when) they are intended.  

2) It is far from uncommon to have "match pressure" issues.  When players are not playing a match, they feel little to no pressure.  Without pressure, most players will be relaxed, which leads to smoother, easier movement, free-er swings, and more focus on the "feel" rather than "not missing".  A bit of pressure can turn some "smooth and balanced" players into "drunk epileptics"(visualization - not intended as an insult to drunks or epileptics).  When/if these players hit with or practice with players closer to their level, everything gets uglier simply due to the increased randomness**.  Throw in a little match pressure and things get even tougher.  

3) A significant number of players overestimate their skill level and play quality.  You (IMHO) tend to go entirely the other way.  Your consistency and focus will be a problem for most and the rest of your game is better (less terrible?) than you claim.  We all hear from players who think they are ~1800 (or whatever) because they "went to deuce twice" with an 1850 player.  The fact that the stronger player was neither focused nor even pretending to play seriously escapes them.  You go the other way and claim to be playing (maybe a slight exaggeration!) ~1500 because you beat some 1700 player in straight sets, but were unhappy with the blade angle at the finish on some of your forehand counters.

I think your game has become very consistent due to all your diligent practice and focus on technique.  This is good!  But some players will do much better than usual against you due to that very consistency.  They probably won't beat you much, but they will look good losing "closer than they should".

bes

* Expert players and players destined to become experts tend to practice with much more focus and intensity than average.  These players do full speed and effort footwork, and focus on the quality of every loop, block, push, and flip.  30 minutes of this sort of "really serious" drilling is exhausting - but very effective.  

** This is why I recommend players don't spend all their time waiting to hit with better players.  Learning to consistently and comfortably beat weaker, less pretty, or even just plain weird players is really important.  Some people just don't want to hear it, but if you can't (for example) comfortably beat 1400-1600 players, you aren't "almost 1800" - no matter how good you look practicing with your 2200 coach.  This is true at all levels, but there is more variability at lower levels than at the top.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by bes bes wrote:

Mark,

Interesting post which got me thinking and rambling.  There are three things to consider - all of which you are surely aware of...

1) Most players below the "seriously expert" level practice and warm up at a much higher apparent level than they actually play*.  This is most pronounced when certain lower (compared to other guy) players hit with their coach or a much better player.  They get balls with consistent speed, spin, depth, and placement which can make a player with decent technique look much, much stronger.  Even when doing transition or footwork drills, the blocks are comfortable and almost always go exactly where (and when) they are intended.  

2) It is far from uncommon to have "match pressure" issues.  When players are not playing a match, they feel little to no pressure.  Without pressure, most players will be relaxed, which leads to smoother, easier movement, free-er swings, and more focus on the "feel" rather than "not missing".  A bit of pressure can turn some "smooth and balanced" players into "drunk epileptics"(visualization - not intended as an insult to drunks or epileptics).  When/if these players hit with or practice with players closer to their level, everything gets uglier simply due to the increased randomness**.  Throw in a little match pressure and things get even tougher.  

3) A significant number of players overestimate their skill level and play quality.  You (IMHO) tend to go entirely the other way.  Your consistency and focus will be a problem for most and the rest of your game is better (less terrible?) than you claim.  We all hear from players who think they are ~1800 (or whatever) because they "went to deuce twice" with an 1850 player.  The fact that the stronger player was neither focused nor even pretending to play seriously escapes them.  You go the other way and claim to be playing (maybe a slight exaggeration!) ~1500 because you beat some 1700 player in straight sets, but were unhappy with the blade angle at the finish on some of your forehand counters.

I think your game has become very consistent due to all your diligent practice and focus on technique.  This is good!  But some players will do much better than usual against you due to that very consistency.  They probably won't beat you much, but they will look good losing "closer than they should".

bes

* Expert players and players destined to become experts tend to practice with much more focus and intensity than average.  These players do full speed and effort footwork, and focus on the quality of every loop, block, push, and flip.  30 minutes of this sort of "really serious" drilling is exhausting - but very effective.  

** This is why I recommend players don't spend all their time waiting to hit with better players.  Learning to consistently and comfortably beat weaker, less pretty, or even just plain weird players is really important.  Some people just don't want to hear it, but if you can't (for example) comfortably beat 1400-1600 players, you aren't "almost 1800" - no matter how good you look practicing with your 2200 coach.  This is true at all levels, but there is more variability at lower levels than at the top.

Nice to see you on! Also, when you play the same player a lot, it's hard to judge them and yourself too. 
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 12:35pm
It should be video to judge, otherwise it is like a broken phone.
You think like you play is 1.
The description from your side is 2.
The understanding of each and anybody who reads that description is 3...n, because of our own experience.
The reality of what you played together is n+1 and only video will be close to that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 12:48pm
The person I played does not like to be videoed.  I have practice with another player today (US 1975) with whom I have similar feelings.  Totally outclassed in practice and drills.  We are about 50/50 in matches, but almost every game I win seems like luck where he should have been the winner.  Will try to get some video.

Edit: The 1600 player actually seems to be a better player than the 1975 one in the drills.  

Mark


Edited by mjamja - 10/14/2020 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

The person I played does not like to be videoed.  I have practice with another player today (US 1975) with whom I have similar feelings.  Totally outclassed in practice and drills.  We are about 50/50 in matches, but almost every game I win seems like luck where he should have been the winner.  Will try to get some video.

Mark
Are the initials of the 1975 player you are playing today AM? If it is he won’t have a issue videoing the matches. 


Edited by Vince64 - 10/14/2020 at 1:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

For last 3 months I have been drilling with a 1600 rated player 2-3 times a week for about an hour each session.  Sessions are short because we play just before club opens and I quit as soon as 3 more people show up.  So they are more like long warmups than true drilling sessions.

Anyway, since the start I have felt like I was playing with a 2200 level player.  His Bh blocks were too quick for me to loop more than twice in a row  (like mini loops right off bounce).  When he looped with Bh, I almost always missed a block before he missed a loop.  When he looped with his Fh I was lucky to block 2 in a row.  In opening drill where I pushed long to random locations he hardly missed landing any loops unless the push was outside the corner where he just could not get to it.  And his loops were mostly winners, but even when I managed to block aggressively or counter attack he just put away the 5th ball.  When I tried to open his pushes were so fast and had so much spin that I missed the loop even when he pushed to a fixed side.  When I did land an opening loop most of the time he just hit a counterloop winner (from either wing).  I really felt like I was not giving him any real practice.

Over the 3 months I have gotten a little better so that I can block 5-6 balls in a row and sometimes he even makes the first mistake.  However he still continued to counter-attack what I considered strong loops like I was just blocking instead of looping.  So on my last day at the club, I asked him to play me a match.  Boy did it go unexpectedly.

I won 3-0 (11-9,11-8,11-7).  But even then I felt like he played better than I did.  I only won 2 points (out of maybe 20) where a 4th ball or beyond was played. I only won the point on my serve (or got an easy put away) or with a good serve return he missed.  He had a lot more trouble with opening my long pushes than in the drill we did.  Maybe it was because in the game I could push short and loop half-long serves instead of just pushing short.  I do not think I won a single point with a third ball attack that was not against some kind of short high return where the serve really won the point.  He just destroyed me with great 5th balls even when I thought I had hit a quality 4th ball that should have had him on the defensive.

So I win the match and yet still leave the table feeling my overall game is even worse than I thought it was practicing with him (and that thought was that it was pretty bad).  Some day I want to play a match and come out feeling my game has improved.  So far I think that has only happened once in about 10 yrs.

Mark - A loser even when he wins.

Oh my, this is ungodly way, way, way too complicated.  Many tuned-in-yet-silent on the matter here in the forum are thinking this, so I will speak for them; a solution of which you are fully aware yet it is before your eyes you remain blind.  Get a Viscaria.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 2:54pm
To Vince64,  
Yes it is AM and he is always gracious in letting me video practice and matches.  Last year he even let me take slow motion video of him looping which I could use in comparison to my videos.

To Donn who wrote
"Get a Viscaria"

You may not remember my story about US Open a few years ago.  Butterfly had the booth with the table so you could try out some equipment.  When the Butterfly rep. watched me trying out their stuff he immediately called  the corporate office and they obtained an injunction preventing me from ever using Butterfly products in public due to the harm such a display could do to their brand.

So now the only time I get to play with my Viscaria clad with T05 and T64 is when I am doing shadow stroking deep off trail in the forest (preferably redwood or sequoia).  And of course I can not post any video of that.

Do you think switching from Tenergy to Dignics on both sides would improve my shadow stroking?

Note:  The above story may or may not be true at all or in any small part.

Mark -  3 days till I arrive in the Shasta Trinity National Forest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2020 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by bes bes wrote:

Mark,

Interesting post which got me thinking and rambling.  There are three things to consider - all of which you are surely aware of...

1) Most players below the "seriously expert" level practice and warm up at a much higher apparent level than they actually play*.  This is most pronounced when certain lower (compared to other guy) players hit with their coach or a much better player.  They get balls with consistent speed, spin, depth, and placement which can make a player with decent technique look much, much stronger.  Even when doing transition or footwork drills, the blocks are comfortable and almost always go exactly where (and when) they are intended.  

2) It is far from uncommon to have "match pressure" issues.  When players are not playing a match, they feel little to no pressure.  Without pressure, most players will be relaxed, which leads to smoother, easier movement, free-er swings, and more focus on the "feel" rather than "not missing".  A bit of pressure can turn some "smooth and balanced" players into "drunk epileptics"(visualization - not intended as an insult to drunks or epileptics).  When/if these players hit with or practice with players closer to their level, everything gets uglier simply due to the increased randomness**.  Throw in a little match pressure and things get even tougher.  

3) A significant number of players overestimate their skill level and play quality.  You (IMHO) tend to go entirely the other way.  Your consistency and focus will be a problem for most and the rest of your game is better (less terrible?) than you claim.  We all hear from players who think they are ~1800 (or whatever) because they "went to deuce twice" with an 1850 player.  The fact that the stronger player was neither focused nor even pretending to play seriously escapes them.  You go the other way and claim to be playing (maybe a slight exaggeration!) ~1500 because you beat some 1700 player in straight sets, but were unhappy with the blade angle at the finish on some of your forehand counters.

I think your game has become very consistent due to all your diligent practice and focus on technique.  This is good!  But some players will do much better than usual against you due to that very consistency.  They probably won't beat you much, but they will look good losing "closer than they should".

bes

* Expert players and players destined to become experts tend to practice with much more focus and intensity than average.  These players do full speed and effort footwork, and focus on the quality of every loop, block, push, and flip.  30 minutes of this sort of "really serious" drilling is exhausting - but very effective.  

** This is why I recommend players don't spend all their time waiting to hit with better players.  Learning to consistently and comfortably beat weaker, less pretty, or even just plain weird players is really important.  Some people just don't want to hear it, but if you can't (for example) comfortably beat 1400-1600 players, you aren't "almost 1800" - no matter how good you look practicing with your 2200 coach.  This is true at all levels, but there is more variability at lower levels than at the top.

Well, that hurt a little...

I thought we agreed you were not going to invoke my personal shortcomings in public?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2020 at 2:53am
Mark is solid 1800s anywhere in USA MINIMUM and it has been a while, Mark could have gotten better.

What Mark is doing is practicing and improving a lot of things... that stuff doesn't 100% translate into points won in the real matches under match pressure... often such improvement doesn't show up for months, or over a year... and Mark is trying to improve many things...

... so his situation is pretty dynamic.

What Mark can do right away (and it sounds like he done did it a bit) is to use more variation on his non-atacking shots and also to get closer to the ball on those to make it more sudden, even if it is a short bump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric Fountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2020 at 3:40am
1600 is stubborn and suffers from OFF+ all the time itis so the consistency isn't there. They can lull you into their playing zone and rhythm behind some well practiced tactical patterns, but things fall off the more it drifts away from drill style points. This player is never going to change style but has good shots and fast rally play so I agree with an earlier post suggesting such a player should serve long more and lean into that strength. This one serves short under to FH 98% of the time which starts off okay because it isn't easy to attack but it becomes so predictable that I don't understand the lack of variation there. We've had plenty of close matches, not easy, but ratings are what they are (with some sample size) for reasons. Some people just like to drill all the time and/or are good in that rhythm and knowing where the ball is coming, but matches are different obviously. 
Haven't played 1925{?} in awhile, they used to have the same OFF+itis problem but they adapt better and must have become much more consistent everywhere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2020 at 10:12am
Do you think switching from Tenergy to Dignics on both sides would improve my shadow stroking?

In general, yes it would improve your shadow stroking, however not in your current circumstance.  You, perhaps above all others, hold expertise in bugs in the outdoors.  Your background, your current style of life, in the essence of your being, all serve as testimony to one holding great insight into the insect world interface with humans.  Dignics is stickier than Tenergy (which is to say; tackier, though not grippier), so the prospects of flying bugs sticking to your swinging racket increases proportionally to the additional stickiness of Dignics.  Upon adhered contact, the additional weight of the stuck bugs will distort the precision of your stroking, thereby defeating the value of the exercise.

You again demonstrate your astuteness of instinct and pragmatism by contemplating the rubber selection for your outdoor training.  You have two choices; new or used rubber.  For new rubber, there are only two choices, anti-spin rubber or frictionless pips, the latter still used extensively though only illegally.  Both have a very low stickiness; the desired quality sought.

The second option is used rubber.  Here the individual sheet candidates are in the untold millions.  To ease your search, there may be exceptional sources to contact.  One that comes to mind is Rich Dewitt, now at the lofty 2358 USATT rating.  A bug adhering to his used sheets is an impossibility.

I do hope I can continue to be helpful to you.

Donn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2020 at 10:38am
Originally posted by Eric Fountain Eric Fountain wrote:

1600 is stubborn and suffers from OFF+ all the time itis so the consistency isn't there. They can lull you into their playing zone and rhythm behind some well practiced tactical patterns, but things fall off the more it drifts away from drill style points. This player is never going to change style but has good shots and fast rally play so I agree with an earlier post suggesting such a player should serve long more and lean into that strength. This one serves short under to FH 98% of the time which starts off okay because it isn't easy to attack but it becomes so predictable that I don't understand the lack of variation there. We've had plenty of close matches, not easy, but ratings are what they are (with some sample size) for reasons. Some people just like to drill all the time and/or are good in that rhythm and knowing where the ball is coming, but matches are different obviously. 
Haven't played 1925{?} in awhile, they used to have the same OFF+itis problem but they adapt better and must have become much more consistent everywhere. 
 
Eric, like you I’ve played both of these two in tournaments over the years. 11-0 combined in tournament matches losing one game in the 11 matches and the one game was not to the person you think it would have been which the last time I played him in Portland he might have tried to intentionally hit me with the ball after point was over. They are both nice but the 1600 player thinks he’s a 2000 level player be it playing singles or doubles. Lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/15/2020 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by Eric Fountain Eric Fountain wrote:

1600 is stubborn and suffers from OFF+ all the time itis so the consistency isn't there. They can lull you into their playing zone and rhythm behind some well practiced tactical patterns, but things fall off the more it drifts away from drill style points. This player is never going to change style but has good shots and fast rally play so I agree with an earlier post suggesting such a player should serve long more and lean into that strength. This one serves short under to FH 98% of the time which starts off okay because it isn't easy to attack but it becomes so predictable that I don't understand the lack of variation there. We've had plenty of close matches, not easy, but ratings are what they are (with some sample size) for reasons. Some people just like to drill all the time and/or are good in that rhythm and knowing where the ball is coming, but matches are different obviously. 
Haven't played 1925{?} in awhile, they used to have the same OFF+itis problem but they adapt better and must have become much more consistent everywhere. 

Yes a lot of ppl don't realise, but short underspin, although it prevents a strong attack directly, it also provides the opponent with the most spin and placement options in terms of dealing with it. So if you know you're stonger in rallies and want to simplify the game, don't serve short underspin balls.... Long fast serves, and short sidetopspin are very effective at forcing the rallies imo. It's my go to serves when I know I'm better at the rallies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ludo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/2020 at 11:11pm
Mark,
Don't change anything.... You da man 😁
Just continue blocking... even harder... with your Spectol!! 
Hope to see you again soon!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/2020 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by ludo ludo wrote:

Mark,
Don't change anything.... You da man 😁
Just continue blocking... even harder... with your Spectol!! 
Hope to see you again soon!


I'll be playing Mark this week.  Any tips on beating him?
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Ludo,

I will keep working on it.  Maybe by the time I get back next summer I will be good enough to at least make you work a little bit when we play.

For those who do not know Ludo has a very strong old school all around game.  You think he is defending and all of a sudden he is close to the table smashing everything.  You think he is just a hitter and then he starts sending these super spin loops at you, but with the old school swing that looks like a topspin drive but has more spin than my best brushing loops.  He chops and you loop a couple back and then he really chops and you put the ball in the bottom of the net.

Because of my Covid fears I never really took advantage of the opportunities I had to hit with him.  I do regret that.

Mark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ludo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2020 at 1:41am
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

I'll be playing Mark this week.  Any tips on beating him?

Hmm.... like Mark said, we didn't play much together but he is a very solid and consistent blocker. Spin variation (under, side and loops) is usually the key to beat blockers. 
Just waiting for the right ball to attack and move him around Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ludo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2020 at 1:48am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Ludo,

I will keep working on it.  Maybe by the time I get back next summer I will be good enough to at least make you work a little bit when we play.

For those who do not know Ludo has a very strong old school all around game.  You think he is defending and all of a sudden he is close to the table smashing everything.  You think he is just a hitter and then he starts sending these super spin loops at you, but with the old school swing that looks like a topspin drive but has more spin than my best brushing loops.  He chops and you loop a couple back and then he really chops and you put the ball in the bottom of the net.

Because of my Covid fears I never really took advantage of the opportunities I had to hit with him.  I do regret that.

Mark


Wow.... Thanks for the kind words.
Switching to modern defense with SP on BH has been really interesting since it allows me to change the spin/speed a lot.
Btw, I upgraded my Spectol 21 from 1.8 to 2.15mm and chops are getting heavier so it's all good and now I can maybe compete with your BH block WinkWink
I also wish we hit more. 
See you next year! 
Take care


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2020 at 2:06am
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by ludo ludo wrote:

Mark,
Don't change anything.... You da man 😁
Just continue blocking... even harder... with your Spectol!! 
Hope to see you again soon!


I'll be playing Mark this week.  Any tips on beating him?
Mjamja don't kill me LOL
Lol from what I see so far, test his wide FH and move him around with big angles... His deep BH or even middle is certainly not anywhere close to a weakness from what I see...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2020 at 3:42am

[/QUOTE]

I'll be playing Mark this week.  Any tips on beating him?
[/QUOTE]
Mjamja don't kill me LOL
Lol from what I see so far, test his wide FH and move him around with big angles... His deep BH or even middle is certainly not anywhere close to a weakness from what I see...
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tips.  I'll let you know how it works.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2020 at 7:41pm

[/QUOTE]

I'll be playing Mark this week.  Any tips on beating him?
[/QUOTE]
Mjamja don't kill me LOL
Lol from what I see so far, test his wide FH and move him around with big angles... His deep BH or even middle is certainly not anywhere close to a weakness from what I see...
[/QUOTE]

I tried that, but sometimes his BH was over on his forehand side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2020 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:



I'll be playing Mark this week.  Any tips on beating him?
[/QUOTE]
Mjamja don't kill me LOL
Lol from what I see so far, test his wide FH and move him around with big angles... His deep BH or even middle is certainly not anywhere close to a weakness from what I see...
[/QUOTE]

I tried that, but sometimes his BH was over on his forehand side.
[/QUOTE]

Lol if he does that then his wide BH is open xD you have to be crafty about the placements :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2020 at 10:52pm
All I have to say about the matches with mts388 is

My angles are better than your angles
My angles are better than yours
My angles are better than your angles
Cause my angles are wider than yours.

In truth the matches had many of the same characteristics  as the one in the video earlier.  The vast majority of really good quality shots and winners were hit by mts388.  Most of the time I felt like I was just in "survival mode".   The one thing that made a difference is that I had a lot of service winners on a type of serve he does very poorly against.  One match I decided not to use that serve and he won pretty easily.  I would guess he won 75%+ of the points where we got into a rally.   It felt as if any second he was going to stop making those silly unforced errors and beat me 11-2 every game.  But it did not happen.  

Maybe I am becoming the poster boy for "winning ugly".

Mark - To paraphrase a great TT player (Forest Gump) "ugly is as ugly does"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2020 at 11:13pm
And I'm the poster boy for losing ugly, but having fun while doing it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2020 at 1:52am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

All I have to say about the matches with mts388 is

My angles are better than your angles
My angles are better than yours
My angles are better than your angles
Cause my angles are wider than yours.

In truth the matches had many of the same characteristics  as the one in the video earlier.  The vast majority of really good quality shots and winners were hit by mts388.  Most of the time I felt like I was just in "survival mode".   The one thing that made a difference is that I had a lot of service winners on a type of serve he does very poorly against.  One match I decided not to use that serve and he won pretty easily.  I would guess he won 75%+ of the points where we got into a rally.   It felt as if any second he was going to stop making those silly unforced errors and beat me 11-2 every game.  But it did not happen.  

Maybe I am becoming the poster boy for "winning ugly".

Mark - To paraphrase a great TT player (Forest Gump) "ugly is as ugly does"


Is it the hook serve LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2020 at 2:18am
A gentleman never serves and tells.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2020 at 9:57am
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

And I'm the poster boy for losing ugly, but having fun while doing it.

Why not join the dark side LOL I used to play pretty bog standard too until I was introduced to the dark side of the Force by my training partner lol... It can be quite fun to win in an evil way too Wink... for me I noticed that lots of ppl deal with balls exiting the rear of the table fine but hate balls that exit the sides of the table... so I've adopted sort of like a sidespin oriented playing style (kinda like the double inverted version of He Zhi Wen, in fact with inverted the sidespin kicks even more so you actually get even more angles than a pips players lol, the sidespin chopblock is key to this). The aim is to get your opponent so disgusted that he makes tons of unforced errors, gets into bad positions and gets so uncomfortable that he just loses lol....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2020 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

And I'm the poster boy for losing ugly, but having fun while doing it.

Why not join the dark side LOL I used to play pretty bog standard too until I was introduced to the dark side of the Force by my training partner lol... It can be quite fun to win in an evil way too Wink... for me I noticed that lots of ppl deal with balls exiting the rear of the table fine but hate balls that exit the sides of the table... so I've adopted sort of like a sidespin oriented playing style (kinda like the double inverted version of He Zhi Wen, in fact with inverted the sidespin kicks even more so you actually get even more angles than a pips players lol, the sidespin chopblock is key to this). The aim is to get your opponent so disgusted that he makes tons of unforced errors, gets into bad positions and gets so uncomfortable that he just loses lol....

Thank you for the tips.  With Marks lightning quick reflexes and cat like agility it's hard to get anything by him.  I have two days to train until Mark returns with BH-Man.  
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