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Virginia Sung's insights on selection procedures

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aj_88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 11:50am
@idk 
I don't know what I wrote off but for all the things @NextLevel explained so eloquently, I am intimately familiar with for many years. I just got lazy and didn't do a good job in explaining but yes there are some very sound and logical explanations around sending highly ranked world class players who have a proven track record. It expands possibilities for our country around seedlings, draws, team rankings and visibility. 

And yes, I came to this country as an immigrant with practically nothing and I have lived the immigrant experience at a deep level so I kinda chuckled when you talked about immigrants. 

It's all good when we debate issues, most people do it emotionally and therefore it becomes difficult to accept logic and rationale for a viewpoint that is different. In this case @nextlevel saved me from becoming a target of further ridicule from you Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 11:59am
Originally posted by aj_88 aj_88 wrote:

@idk 
I don't know what I wrote off but for all the things @NextLevel explained so eloquently, I am intimately familiar with for many years. I just got lazy and didn't do a good job in explaining but yes there are some very sound and logical explanations around sending highly ranked world class players who have a proven track record. It expands possibilities for our country around seedlings, draws, team rankings and visibility. 

And yes, I came to this country as an immigrant with practically nothing and I have lived the immigrant experience at a deep level so I kinda chuckled when you talked about immigrants. 

It's all good when we debate issues, most people do it emotionally and therefore it becomes difficult to accept logic and rationale for a viewpoint that is different. In this case @nextlevel saved me from becoming a target of further ridicule from you Smile

And as I said before I mostly agree with most of those explanations but don't think we should write off the other side of the argument, at least when it comes to more coveted spots such as olympic spots. I didn't catch that this was more centered around national team spots in which case someone with a proven track record definitely has earned that spot. 

I think I have a guess as to why you debated this issue so emotionally Wink i don't see where I ridiculed you and certainly not to the degree that you did with Lightspin. maybe next time a better explanation as opposed to "getting lazy" rather than getting personal with people who disagree or aren't as "intimately familiar" as you would be better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aj_88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 1:45pm
@idk
I debated the issue emotionally because I know @Lightspin, and he knows me.  I felt lazy to explain because he needed no explaining since he is very familiar with the process of why high world ranked players help us get better seedings, draws, team ranking, visibility and of course a better shot at the medals in a world class ITTF event. 

I was not expecting you to jump in and take it all out of context and proffer explanations without reading Bruce's email about finding a balance in the selection procedure where world ranking is one of the criteria. Also, I don't think LightSpin needs hand holding from you because he is fully capable of dishing it out as well. Had you asked me first I would have gladly explained again but oh well, it is what it is.

We all learn and move forward.  BTW, there is no LightSpin about him because in reality in table tennis he can generate a lot of HeavySpin and I know that for a fact Smile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 1:47pm
What would US Table Tennis and it players think if USATT decided the national team the way of California ??? ... and mandated that the composition of the team reflect the composition of society... and as a bonus, mandatory inclusion of several groups (that may not even particiapte in TT). ???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 3:25pm
I think me and AJ_88 just disagree about how to select a team.  I understand where he is coming from.  I could be wrong, I could be right but I will speak my opinion. 

I also don't mean any disrespect to players when I say the world rankings are out of whack.  I have the utmost respect for anyone in the top 1000.  A few of my regular practice partners are in the top 1000 and they are monsters.  On super rare occasions I get to practice with people in the top 100 and their ball feels dramatically different than your typical 2500 player.  If I think a player should be ranked higher or lower it is just debate like who is better Jordan or Kobe.  In the end the rankings are the ITTF's decision and players just play.  If someone has a world ranking of 40 and I think they are the 80th best player in the world, I still think they are incredibly talented.  I look up to anyone who worked hard enough to be top 1000 or better and being top 100 is just crazy.  I hope all of our players continue to train hard and improve. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 4:14pm
Hi,

Let us all not be confused about the notion of opportunity.  Liu Juan (as just one example) did have the opportunity to be a professional player.  She did have the opportunity to travel on a professional table tennis journey.  She elected a different life, and from that election she is realizing all the benefits of that decision.  She had an equal opportunity.

Others chose the professional table tennis opportunity and are realizing the benefits of those decisions.  One of the benefits is to participate in events that potentially result in achievements that are highly applicable and relevant to a National Governing Body's decision as to whom should represent the nation.  In the U.S., two professional players have attained such achievements.

Thanks.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Let us all not be confused about the notion of opportunity.  Liu Juan (as just one example) did have the opportunity to be a professional player.  She did have the opportunity to travel on a professional table tennis journey.  She elected a different life, and from that election she is realizing all the benefits of that decision.  She had an equal opportunity.

Others chose the professional table tennis opportunity and are realizing the benefits of those decisions.  One of the benefits is to participate in events that potentially result in achievements that are highly applicable and relevant to a National Governing Body's decision as to whom should represent the nation.  In the U.S., two professional players have attained such achievements.

Thanks.  

That is an opinion that exists, but a very debatable one at that. Nicholas Tio benefited from this viewpoint in the past despite not necessarily being the merit-based choice.

It helps when Kanak is the clear #1 on the men's side, and Lily for sure in the top 2, but how does that logic hold up if say our professional players are 2300 and we have a retired, American citizen Ma Long sitting on the sidelines?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Let us all not be confused about the notion of opportunity.  Liu Juan (as just one example) did have the opportunity to be a professional player.  She did have the opportunity to travel on a professional table tennis journey.  She elected a different life, and from that election she is realizing all the benefits of that decision.  She had an equal opportunity.

Others chose the professional table tennis opportunity and are realizing the benefits of those decisions.  One of the benefits is to participate in events that potentially result in achievements that are highly applicable and relevant to a National Governing Body's decision as to whom should represent the nation.  In the U.S., two professional players have attained such achievements.

Thanks.  

That is an opinion that exists, but a very debatable one at that. Nicholas Tio benefited from this viewpoint in the past despite not necessarily being the merit-based choice.

It helps when Kanak is the clear #1 on the men's side, and Lily for sure in the top 2, but how does that logic hold up if say our professional players are 2300 and we have a retired, American citizen Ma Long sitting on the sidelines?

The key phrase is this: achievements that are highly applicable and relevant to a National Governing Body's decision as to whom should represent the nation

Tio did not attain the exceptional achievements, whereas Lily and Kanak have.

Thanks.


Edited by DonnOlsen - 11/06/2020 at 5:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aj_88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 5:11pm
@idk
That's exactly why there is only one spot for the Highest World Rank players in the top 30 or 50 and your illusionary Ma Long (there is none that I know of) can still compete in trials for one of the two other spots.  That way he can contribute to the team, and still stay retired.

Also, at the moment the rest of the players in the men's team are at least 2600 average with Nikhil being almost 2750+.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 5:43pm
I am sure nobody likes communism as an economic system but some people want everybody at the same level when it's about filling the WTTC/Olympic US spots.
Why would anybody in the mens team think he is the equal of Kanak? because it arranges them? yes.
At this point I would ask for a vote from USATT members, that would maybe result in Kanak campaigning and giving us a video where he'd explain than travelling and spending money to gain a spot nobody is even close to take away from him is just putting useless pressure on him and hinder USA chances for a medal. I predict an humiliation for those wanting Kanak to fight for a spot that his his natural place at the moment, with nobody able to challenge it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 6:17pm
Among other things, during a global pandemic it is dumb to make your best players -- including a  World Cup semifinalist-- travel unnecessarily.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

Let us all not be confused about the notion of opportunity.  Liu Juan (as just one example) did have the opportunity to be a professional player.  She did have the opportunity to travel on a professional table tennis journey.  She elected a different life, and from that election she is realizing all the benefits of that decision.  She had an equal opportunity.

Others chose the professional table tennis opportunity and are realizing the benefits of those decisions.  One of the benefits is to participate in events that potentially result in achievements that are highly applicable and relevant to a National Governing Body's decision as to whom should represent the nation.  In the U.S., two professional players have attained such achievements.

Thanks.  

This
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/06/2020 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by aj_88 aj_88 wrote:

@idk
That's exactly why there is only one spot for the Highest World Rank players in the top 30 or 50 and your illusionary Ma Long (there is none that I know of) can still compete in trials for one of the two other spots.  That way he can contribute to the team, and still stay retired.

Also, at the moment the rest of the players in the men's team are at least 2600 average with Nikhil being almost 2750+.

Understood, and I think it is a good rule...again, I am on board with most of this but just playing devil's advocate for the other side of the argument for the sake of discussion. Lily and Kanak have absolutely earned their right and have nothing to prove...that was just a ridiculous example for a future generation in which it is possible that the pro players are not the best players in the country (as is the case right now) and this could set a precedent for future governing boards to change the bar - top 150? top 200? I know that constant changes in policies and viewpoints across new administrations has caused a lot of headaches for those intimately involved, you probably have more experience with this than I.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2020 at 4:35am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

What if we pick someone and they get sick at the worlds or Olympics? What then? Sports is competition.  If a player comes back from Asia, Europe or the moon and doesn't perform well and make the team, there is always next year. 

And as great as our current crop of players are, former players I know who were top 20 or top 5 even feel that EVERYONE should compete for a spot.  I think they know what it takes to get there.  We don't anoint, we compete.  EVERYONE should have to compete for a spot.  That is the American way. 

Feel free to disagree.  This is a free country.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion. 

Don't players compete all year round [2020 aside]?

Having dozens of tournaments, and then having extra trials when the other results are pretty conclusive, simply puts some players in better positions than others.

Some are playing with everything to lose / to gain, especially if your achievements would have you as #1.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2020 at 5:10am
But the other results may not be conclusive.  People might play in different tournaments.  What if a few people play on the east coast, a few on the west coast, some in Europe and a few are in Asia? I think there needs to be a centralized event to determine who makes the team. 

If the results are conclusive, who wins among Lily, Jennifer and Liu Juan? We could also throw in Wang Huijing into the mix.  I don't think that question is easy to answer. 

One thing that I am surprised isn't happening, unless it is behind the scenes, is negotiating.  If people are worried about having an off day and not making the team, why not have 2 trials where 2 positions are earned each time? They could be held at different times of the year. 

Another proposal could be, if people object to the highest world ranking qualifying automatically, insert some performance criteria.  Perhaps something along the lines of finishing in a high position of an ITTF event which is not restricted by location and has a certain ranking to it, like top 4 of a tour event or top 8 in a platinum event. 

I am just throwing things out there.  I like trials, some people don't.  There is no reason why one side has to go home unhappy.  People can negotiate so everyone can go home unhappy :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2020 at 6:28am
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

But the other results may not be conclusive.  People might play in different tournaments.  What if a few people play on the east coast, a few on the west coast, some in Europe and a few are in Asia? I think there needs to be a centralized event to determine who makes the team. 
There will be a centralized event, US Team Trials, to determine who makes a majority of the team (a team of ~28 players).
Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

If the results are conclusive, who wins among Lily, Jennifer and Liu Juan? We could also throw in Wang Huijing into the mix.  I don't think that question is easy to answer.   
I agree that H2H results are not conclusive.  What is conclusive is that Lily has achieved a top 30 World ranking.  That is extremely difficult even for Juan Liu even if she does compete internationally which she has *chosen* not to as she has a family and has *chosen* to spend most of her time coaching.  It's not a given that she would achieve that same level of achievement that Lily has. Recall that Juan Liu lost at the the U.S. Open to a good, but not highly ranked Japanese player.  A player which Lily had no trouble winning.  Add to that Lily's breakthrough performance at the WWC last year with wins over Sofia Polcanova and Miu Hirano, and this year's WWC win over a top 10 player, FTW.

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

One thing that I am surprised isn't happening, unless it is behind the scenes, is negotiating.  If people are worried about having an off day and not making the team, why not have 2 trials where 2 positions are earned each time? They could be held at different times of the year.   
That was discussed at the 10/13 HPC meeting. It looks like they concluded agreed to have 2 trials for cadets/juniors and 1 trial for Adults.

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

Another proposal could be, if people object to the highest world ranking qualifying automatically, insert some performance criteria.  Perhaps something along the lines of finishing in a high position of an ITTF event which is not restricted by location and has a certain ranking to it, like top 4 of a tour event or top 8 in a platinum event.   
Highest world ranking seems to me a more comprehensive measure.

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

I am just throwing things out there.  I like trials, some people don't.  There is no reason why one side has to go home unhappy.  People can negotiate so everyone can go home unhappy :)
I don't think anyone is arguing we shouldn't have trials.


Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 11/10/2020 at 9:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2020 at 11:51am
I think while Lily and Kanak might be seductive and easy cases to defend in terms of making the national team automatically, I would like us to momentarily imagine a world where Lily didn't exist and Jennifer (Yue) Wu was the highest ranked player on the team.   She did badly at the Olympic trials and ended up missing the team.   While some might find that entirely fair because it is an Olympic trial and not the only relatively bad result that Jennifer has has in domestic events, is it really the case that most of the players she lost to or struggled against in the 2020 trials would have better rankings than Jennifer if given the chance to play the same events she did?  Will they perform better at the Olympics than her?  And if we had one spot for international rankings, given her relative lack of domestic dominance, is she a bad choice for an automatic spot?

Edited by NextLevel - 11/10/2020 at 11:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/10/2020 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I think while Lily and Kanak might be seductive and easy cases to defend in terms of making the national team automatically, I would like us to momentarily imagine a world where Lily didn't exist and Jennifer (Yue) Wu was the highest ranked player on the team.   She did badly at the Olympic trials and ended up missing the team.   While some might find that entirely fair because it is an Olympic trial and not the only relatively bad result that Jennifer has has in domestic events, is it really the case that most of the players she lost to or struggled against in the 2020 trials would have better rankings than Jennifer if given the chance to play the same events she did?  Will they perform better at the Olympics than her?  And if we had one spot for international rankings, given her relative lack of domestic dominance, is she a bad choice for an automatic spot?

An interesting hypothetical.  If given the same chance to play international events that Wu Yue did, I think Juan Liu would get a higher ranking.  But Wu Yue has done relatively well internationally especially at Womens World Cups (beat Elizabeth Samara last year and Petrissa Solja this year).  I don't think Wu Yue would be a bad choice if she indeed won the Olympic spot based on ranking.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2020 at 7:55am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I think while Lily and Kanak might be seductive and easy cases to defend in terms of making the national team automatically, I would like us to momentarily imagine a world where Lily didn't exist and Jennifer (Yue) Wu was the highest ranked player on the team.   She did badly at the Olympic trials and ended up missing the team.   While some might find that entirely fair because it is an Olympic trial and not the only relatively bad result that Jennifer has has in domestic events, is it really the case that most of the players she lost to or struggled against in the 2020 trials would have better rankings than Jennifer if given the chance to play the same events she did?  Will they perform better at the Olympics than her?  And if we had one spot for international rankings, given her relative lack of domestic dominance, is she a bad choice for an automatic spot?

An interesting hypothetical.  If given the same chance to play international events that Wu Yue did, I think Juan Liu would get a higher ranking.  But Wu Yue has done relatively well internationally especially at Womens World Cups (beat Elizabeth Samara last year and Petrissa Solja this year).  I don't think Wu Yue would be a bad choice if she indeed won the Olympic spot based on ranking.  

Thanks.  But if there are 3 or 4 spots on a national team, Juan Liu, if she decides not to play internationally (and as Donn pointed out, this is really a lifestyle choice), can earn her spot another way.  And I am okay with saying that the Olympic spots should all be trials as those happen once every 4 years and are things everyone peaks for.  But for national team, I am trying to see whether top 50 is such a low standard that if a player achieves it in the manner that Lightspin may be arguing against, would such a player still need to prove herself in trials?

And maybe if Jennifer has a better trials this non-Olympic triala year than she did last year, she might be another proof point for the capricious nature of trials. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2020 at 10:03am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I think while Lily and Kanak might be seductive and easy cases to defend in terms of making the national team automatically, I would like us to momentarily imagine a world where Lily didn't exist and Jennifer (Yue) Wu was the highest ranked player on the team.   She did badly at the Olympic trials and ended up missing the team.   While some might find that entirely fair because it is an Olympic trial and not the only relatively bad result that Jennifer has has in domestic events, is it really the case that most of the players she lost to or struggled against in the 2020 trials would have better rankings than Jennifer if given the chance to play the same events she did?  Will they perform better at the Olympics than her?  And if we had one spot for international rankings, given her relative lack of domestic dominance, is she a bad choice for an automatic spot?

An interesting hypothetical.  If given the same chance to play international events that Wu Yue did, I think Juan Liu would get a higher ranking.  But Wu Yue has done relatively well internationally especially at Womens World Cups (beat Elizabeth Samara last year and Petrissa Solja this year).  I don't think Wu Yue would be a bad choice if she indeed won the Olympic spot based on ranking.  

Thanks.  But if there are 3 or 4 spots on a national team, Juan Liu, if she decides not to play internationally (and as Donn pointed out, this is really a lifestyle choice), can earn her spot another way.  And I am okay with saying that the Olympic spots should all be trials as those happen once every 4 years and are things everyone peaks for.  But for national team, I am trying to see whether top 50 is such a low standard that if a player achieves it in the manner that Lightspin may be arguing against, would such a player still need to prove herself in trials?

And maybe if Jennifer has a better trials this non-Olympic triala year than she did last year, she might be another proof point for the capricious nature of trials. 
In my opinion, top 50 is a no brainer to be given a spot on the US National Team (a team of ~28 players).  Just look at the names around WR50.  There would still be plenty of spots at the National Team Trials plus US National Champion.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2020 at 2:07pm
Time to catch up on this after the WWC.

Since Virginia mentions the following, let's see how China, Hong Kong and Japan do it, as I'm fairly familiar with them.

Quote Even if USATT had a more limited mission -- say our mission was solely to compete internationally against teams from China, Japan, Germany and others – we would still need to ensure fairness, clarity, transparency and security to our athletes in doing so.




As many are aware, China doesn't give a damn about WR, for obvious reasons. There are at least 2 known ways to make the national team, 1) by finishing in the top 8 in singles at the national championships; 2) by finishing in the top 4 in the 交流賽(exchange tournament) at the end of the 40-day closed-door national training camps every year, once in the summer and once in the winter.

http://xhimg.sports.cn/Image/soft/201012/24-20101210422Oa.pdf
http://www.ctta.cn/xhgg/ssxg/2020/1012/360075.html
Quote 七、录取名次与奖励
(一)各项目录取前8名,颁发证书。
(二)各项目获得前3名的运动员,分别颁发金、银、铜牌。
(三)获得男、女单打前8名的运动员,将直接入选国家一队。

(3) Players who finish in top 8 in MS/WS are directly drafted into the national A-team.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?24317-My-Journey-to-reach-the-National-Table-Tennis-Olympic-Team!-Join-Me&p=328125&viewfull=1#post328125
Quote There are 2 humongous 40-day closed-door national training camps every year, once in the summer and once in the winter, where the promising provincial players from all around the country get the chance to train with the national B-team members and hopefully catch the attention of the national team coaches.

At the end of it is a round-robin tournament among the bottom 8 national B-team members and the top 8 provincial players, where the top 4 finishing provincial players get promoted to the national B-team and the bottom 4 finishing national B-team members get sent back to their respective provincial teams.

The last segment of episode 2 of the "Table Tennis in China" series follows the one in summer 2013.




For Hong Kong, the senior team and junior team have separate selection mechanisms. The Hong Kong Table Tennis Team is mainly composed of full-time athletes and scholarship athletes from the Hong Kong Sports Institute. The junior team goes by "Player Selection Arrangements" below at the end of this segment.

https://www.hktta.org.hk/aboutus/intro/HKTTA_M&A.pdf
https://www.hktta.org.hk/aboutus/intro/index.html
Quote 33.The Executive Committee shall have the rights to:-
...
(d)select players representing the Association to participate in table tennis contests.


https://www.hktta.org.hk/aboutus/intro/HKTeamSelectionSystem.pdf
https://www.hktta.org.hk/aboutus/intro/index.html
Quote 香港乒乓球�£表隊主要以香港體育學院全職運動員、獎學金運動員為骨幹成員。選拔球員�£表香港參加國際賽事的遴選機制如下:

遴選準則
1. 最新世界排名及香港排名
2. 在大型國際性賽事之最佳成績
3. 運動員之訓練態度及紀律
4. 教練組之綜合意見
5. 配合�£表隊長遠之發展策略

選拔程序
若須進行甄選賽,將根據賽事之規定與要求,結合隊伍之現況擬定賽事甄選賽規則。

上訴人資格 / 機制
運動員及教練若對遴選結果有異議,可向總會提出上訴。上訴人不可就不同意/不滿意遴選結果而提出上訴,上訴原因應基於遴選小組沒有按機制而得出遴選結果或有不合理/不公平/無關的因素而得出遴選結果。
上訴程序
1. 必須於遴選賽事結束後之三天內,以書面向總會提出上訴,並須同時繳納上訴費港�£�£�千元�£,逾期恕不受理。上訴得值者將獲發還上訴費;
2. 所有匿名及沒有真實聯絡方法的上訴概不接受;
3. 接獲上訴書後,將由執委會�£表、教練小組�£表及專責運動員事務�£表組成臨時專案小組跟進;
4. 自接到上訴書即日起,專案小組會於七個工作天內進行聆訊,有關上訴結果將被視為本會遴選結果的最終�£�決。

The Hong Kong Table Tennis Team is mainly composed of full-time athletes and scholarship athletes from the Hong Kong Sports Institute. The selection mechanism for selecting players to represent Hong Kong in international competitions is as follows:

Selection criteria
1. The latest world rankings and Hong Kong rankings
2. Best results in major international competitions
3. Athlete's training attitude and discipline
4. Comprehensive opinions of the coaching staff
5. Cooperate with the long-term development strategy of the representative team

Selection procedure
If a selection tournament is required, the rules and requirements of the tournament will be drawn up based on the current situation of the team.

Appellant qualifications / mechanism
If athletes and coaches disagree with the selection results, they can appeal to the Association. The appellant may not appeal against the selection results. The reason for the appeal should be based on the fact that the selection panel did not follow the mechanism to arrive at the selection results or there are unreasonable/unfair/irrelevant factors.

Appeal Procedure
1. An appeal must be filed to the Association in writing within 3 days after the end of the selection tournament, and an appeal fee of HK$1,000 must be paid at the same time. Late submission will not be accepted. Appeals worthy of the appeal will be refunded the appeal fee;
2. All anonymous and no real contact methods will not be accepted;
3. After receiving the appeal, a temporary panel to follow up will be formed by representatives of the executive committee, representatives of the coaching team, and representatives of athletes’ affairs;
4. From the day after receiving the appeal letter, the panel will conduct a hearing within 7 working days, and the result of the appeal will be regarded as the final decision of the committee’s selection results.

Quote 為配合香港青少年隊(港青)的長遠發展,國際青少年賽事選拔安排如下:
(1)國際乒聯各站青少年巡迴賽
➢由香港青少年隊內部產生(教練小組可決定直板或削球打法佔其中一名額)
➢全港公開青少年賽事U18或U15歲組別男女子單打冠軍,可�£表香港參加其中一站國際賽事,賽事由香港乒乓總會決定。

(2)亞洲青少年錦標賽
➢香港青少年隊佔有固定名額--內部甄選
➢非港青球員可爭取餘下名額--公開甄選

名額分配
青年組男女子各有4個參賽名額,港青隊內部佔2個名額,公開甄選佔2個名額。
少年組男女子各有3個參賽名額,港青隊內部佔2個名額,公開甄選佔1個名額。

公開甄選
(未入選的港青球員同具參加甄選資格)
組別          青年組(18歲或以下)               少年組(15歲或以下)
甄選資格     選拔賽公布的最新男女子排名前5名球員     選拔賽公布的最新男女子排名前4名球員
甄選名額     男女子各2個                    男女子各1個

非港青球員參加國際賽事途徑
➢自費參加國際乒聯各站青少年巡迴賽詳情請瀏覽香港乒乓總會網頁(www.hktta.org.hk)→自費參加國際青少年賽
➢亞洲青少年錦標賽公開甄選名額

(3)東亞希望盃賽
參賽名額: 男女子各6名(名額由主辦單位最後確定)
➢內部甄選--香港青少年隊及少兒精英隊共佔有男女子各3名額;
➢公開甄選--男女子各2名額(詳情請參閱章程);
➢少兒打吡大賽--男女子各1名額(詳情請參閱章程)。

備註:
1.世界排名前100位的球員可直接入選所有青少年賽�£表名單(佔青少年隊內部名額);
2.港青球員須遵守隊內規則,內部甄選賽前三個月的訓練出席率必須達80%(任何傷病理由不能獲得豁免),未能遵守之球員不可參加內部甄選。
3.所有經內部及公開甄選之球員須遵守隊內規則,必須參加賽前集訓(集訓日期由教練決定)方可參賽,賽前集訓出席率必須達80% (任何傷病理由不能獲得豁免)。未能遵守之球員,有機會被取消參賽資格。
4.上述內容本會有權隨時作出俢訂。

香港乒乓總會秘書處 謹啓

2019年8月修訂

In order to cope with the long-term development of the Hong Kong Junior Team (HKJ), the selection arrangements for international junior competitions are as follows:
(1) ITTF Junior Circuit
➢ Produced internally by the Hong Kong Junior Team (the coaching team can decide 1 spot for penholder or chopper)
➢ The boy's and girl's singles champions in the U18 or U15 category of the Hong Kong Open junior competitions can represent Hong Kong in 1 leg of the international events, which is determined by the Hong Kong Table Tennis Association.

(2) Asian Junior Championships
➢ The Hong Kong Junior Team has a fixed quota - internal selection
➢ Non-HKJ players can fight for the remaining quota - open selection

Quota allocation
There are 4 quota each for boys and girls in the junior category, 2 quota for the HKJ and 2 quota for open selection.
There are 3 quota each for boys and girls in the cadet category, 2 quota for the HKJ and 1 quota for open selection.

Open selection
(Unselected HKJ players are also eligible to participate in the selection process)
Category | Junior (18 years old or below) | Cadet (15 years old or below)
Selection Qualifications | The latest top 5 of the boys and girls rankings published for the trials | The latest top 4 boys and girls rankings published for the trials
Selection Quota | 2 each for boys and girls | 1 each for boys and girls

* Ways for non-HKJ players to participate in international competitions
➢ To participate in the ITTF Junior Circuit at your own expense, please visit the website of the Hong Kong Table Tennis Association (www.hktta.org.hk) → Participating in International Junior Circuit at One's Own Expense
➢ Open selection quota for Asian Junior Championships

(3) East Asian Hopes Cup
Entry quota: 6 each for boys and girls (the quota is finalized by the organizer)
➢ Internal selection - The Hong Kong Junior Team and the Cadet Elite Team have a total of 3 quota each for boys and girls;
➢ Open selection - 2 each for boys and girls (please refer to the regulations for details);
➢ Cadet Derby Contest - 1 each for boys and girls (please refer to the regulations for details).

Remarks:
1. The top 100 world-ranked players can be directly drafted into the list of representatives of all junior competitions (accounting for the internal quota of the junior team);
2. HKJ players must abide by the internal team rules. The training attendance rate in the 3 months before the internal selection tournamnet must reach 80% (any form of injury or disease may not be exempted). Players who fail to comply may not participate in the internal selection.
3. All players selected internally and openly must abide by the team rules and must take part in the pre-match training (the training date is determined by the coach) in order to participate, and the pre-match training attendance rate must reach 80% (any form injury or disease may not be exempted). Players who fail to comply may be disqualified from the competition.
4. The Association reserves the right to amend the above terms and conditions at any time.

Secretariat of the Hong Kong Table Tennis Association

Revised in August 2019

https://www.hktta.org.hk/hkteam/youth_player/PDF/YouthSelection.pdf
https://www.hktta.org.hk/hkteam/youth_player/index.html
Quote 2020 香港青少年隊
《球員甄選安排》
1. 目的
投入精英培訓,為香港隊輸送人才。

2. 球員定位
為了配合青少年隊的長遠發展,教練會按隊內需要而設定甄選球員的年齡、性別及打法,被甄選進入香港青少年隊成員,具有�£表香港參加國際青少年賽的資格。

3. 甄選安排
以 2020 年 2 月 17 日(2020 第 1 期)公布之排名榜為依據,位列於以下年齡球員及在 “恒生乒乓球學院- 章別獎勵計劃”中獲白金章或以上者可獲甄選資格:

3.1 受訓未滿兩年之現役青少年隊球員
3.2 2007 年出生之男女子子排名前 4 位球員;
3.3 2008 年出生之男女子排名前 4 位球員及;
3.4 2009 年或以後出生之男女子排名前 4 位球員;
3.5 2019 第四屆少兒打吡乒乓球比賽男女子冠軍球員 ;
3.6 少兒精英隊球員內部賽,前 4 男 4 女球員;
3.7 精英隊內部賽,前 2 男 2 女球員(不限年齡) ;
3.8 若精英及少精內部賽名單已在 3.1 至 3.3 名單內,或出席率未達標者,則按內部賽名次較前者�£�上;
3.8 精英及少精隊員如傷病超出訓練日數的 20%將不可參加甄選;
3.9 精英及少精內部賽的名次只作為青少隊甄選參考。

甄選日期:2020 年 10 月 17 日(星期六)
甄選時間:女子球員 – 下午 3 時至 4 時 30 分 | 男子球員 – 下午 4 時 30 分至 6 時
甄選地點:歌和老街乒乓球中心 4 樓
4. 訓練要求與須知
A. 訓練時間:
逢星期一至五 下午 5 時至 7 時 30 分
逢星期六
上午 9 時 30 分至 12 時 或
每週不少於 5 次共 15 小時的訓練時間
(備註:長假期將有更多訓練安排。)
訓練地點:沙田香港體育學院乒乓球館
B. 入選球員受訓未滿兩年的需重新甄選;
C 入選球員將需要觀察 3 個月並定期接受體能測試;
D. 必須服從隊規及教練安排。
以上要求未能達標者將無法繼續成為青少年隊球員。
5. 報名手續
由即日起至 2020 年 7 月 17 日(星期五)或之前,可將報名表格電郵至:[email protected]、親遞或郵寄至銅鑼�£大球場徑一號奧運大樓 2008 室,逾期遞交表格者將不接受申請。有關事宜查詢,歡迎致電 2837 6021 與卓小姐聯絡。

註: 上述內容如有未完善之處,本會有權隨時作出俢訂並擁最終審核。

香港乒乓總會秘書處

2020 年 9 月 30 日

2020 Hong Kong Youth Team
"Player Selection Arrangements"
1. Purpose
Invest in elite training to deliver talents for the Hong Kong team.

2. Player positioning
In order to cope with the long-term development of the junior team, the coach will set the age, gender and playstyle of the selected players according to the needs of the team. They will be selected as members of the Hong Kong junior team and have the qualifications to represent Hong Kong in international junior competitions.

3. Selection Arrangements
Based on the rankings announced on February 17, 2020 (1st issue of 2020), players ranked below and those who have earned a platinum badge or above in the "Hang Seng Table Tennis Academy -Badges Scheme" will be eligible for selection:

3.1 Current junior team players who have been trained for less than 2 years
3.2 The top 4 boys and girls born in 2007;
3.3 The top 4 boys and girls born in 2008 and;
3.4 The top 4 boys and girls born in 2009 or later;
3.5 2019 4th Cadet Derby Table Tennis Tournament Boys' and Girls' Champions;
3.6 Internal tournament among elite cadet team members, with the top 4 boys and 4 girls;
3.7 Elite team internal tournament, with the top 2 boys and 2 girls(no age limit);
3.8 If the lists of elite and elite cadet internal tournament are already in the lists of 3.1 to 3.3, or the attendance rate of those is not satisfied, the top finishers of the internal tournaments will fill up the remaining quota;
3.8 Elite and elite cadet players will not be eligible for selection if the injury and disease exceed 20% of the training days;
3.9 The rankings of the elite and elite cadet internal tournaments are only used as a reference for the selection of the junior teams.

Selection date: October 17, 2020 (Saturday)
Selection time: Girls' players - 3:00pm to 4:30pm | Boys' players - 4:30pm to 6:00pm
Selection location: 4th Floor, Cornwall Street Table Tennis Center

4. Training requirements and instructions
A. Training time:
Every Monday to Friday 5pm to 7:30pm
Every Saturday 9:30 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. or
no less than 5 times a week, for a total of 15 hours of training time
(Note: There will be more training arrangements during long holidays.)
Training Venue: Table Tennis Hall, Hong Kong Sports Institute, Sha Tin
B. Selected players must be re-selected if they have been trained for less than 2 years;
C Selected players will need to be observed for 3 months and undergo regular physical fitness tests;
D. Must obey team rules and coaching arrangements.
Those who fail to meet the above requirements will not be able to continue to become junior team players.

5. Registration procedures
From now until July 17, 2020 (Friday) or before, the registration form can be emailed to: [email protected], delivered in person or mailed to Room 2008, Olympic Building, 1 Stadium Path, Causeway Bay. Late submission of the form will not be accepted. For inquiries on related matters, please call Ms. Cheuk at 2837 6021.

Note: If there are any deficiencies in the above content, the Association reserves the right to make the final review at any time.

Secretariat of Hong Kong Table Tennis Association

September 30, 2020




For Japan, Articles 27-31 in the "Regulations for Development Headquarters" state that:

http://www.jtta.or.jp/Portals/0/images/association/provision/kitei2020/20200616_kitei03_1.pdf
http://www.jtta.or.jp/association/tabid/220/Default.aspx
Quote 第 27 条(NT、JNT 及び HNT 選手の選出及び手順)
NT 及び JNT 選手の選出及び手順は次の方法による。
(1)NT、JNT �£�£はそれぞれ下記の大会成績等を参考にし、NT 及び JNT 対象選手を選出する。但し、
NT は候�£�選手についても選出する。
①直近の世界ランキング 100 位以内
②直近の全日本選手権 16 位以内
③直近の全日本社会人選手権 8 位以内
�£直近の全日本大学総合(個人の部)8 位以内
⑤直近の全日本選手権ジュニアの部 8 位以内
⑥直近のインターハイ 8 位以内
⑦直近の全日本選手権カデットに部(13、14 歳以下)8 位以内
⑧直近の全国中学校大会 8 位以内
⑨直近の全日本選手権ホープス・カブの部 4 位以内
⑩JOC エリートアカデミーの者
⑪特に NT、JNT �£�£が推薦する者
(新規推薦・継続強化)
(2)NT の選手数は原則として 10 名を限度とする。但し、必要に応じて加えることができる。
(3)U-18、U-15 の選手数は原則として各 10 名を限度とする。但し、必要に応じて加えることが
できる。
(4)NT 候�£�選手数については定めない。
2 HNT 選手の選出及び手順は次の方法による。
(1)HNT �£�£は下記の大会成績及び選考会成績等を参考にし、HNT 対象選手を選出する。
①直近の全日本選手権 32 位以内
②直近の全日本選手権ジュニアの部 16 位以内
③直近の全日本選手権カデットの部(13、14 歳以下)8 位以内
�£直近の全日本選手権ホープス・カブ・バンビの部各優勝者
⑤HNT 選考会優勝者、準優勝者
・バンビは優勝者のみ
⑥特に HNT �£�£が推薦する者
・HNT 選考会上位者より
(2)U-12、U10、U-8 の選手数は原則として各 10 名を限度とする。但し、必要に応じて加えるこ
とができる。

第 28 条(NT、JNT 及び HNT の活動)
NT、JNT 及び HNT の活動は次の通り定める。
(1)NT、JNT 及び HNT 選手・強化スタッフは、合宿、国内・国際大会に参加する。
(2)選手の所属母体指導者とのコミュニケーションを図る。

第 29 条(オリンピック、世界選手権派�£選手の選考)
オリンピック、世界選手権大会の選手選考方法は以下の通り定める。
(1)事前に各大会に適した選考基準を作成し、理事会承認を経て発表する。発表時期については強
化本部で決定し、各カテゴリーに周知徹底する。
(2)各大会の�£表選手を強化本部は選考基準に基づき決定し、理事会に報告する。

第 30 条(国際大会に自己負担で参加希望する選手の選考)
ITTF ワールドツアー等の国際大会に自己負担で参加希望する選手の選考基準は以下の通りとする。
以下の条件を満たした選手は、NT �£�£の推薦を経て国際大会の出場を認めるものとする。但し、大
会エントリー数の都合で人数制限をすることがある。
①直近の世界ランキング 100 位以内の者
②直近の全日本選手権シングルス 16 位以内の者
③直近の全日本社会人選手権シングルス 8 位以内の者
�£直近の全日本大学総合(個人の部)シングルス 8 位以内の者
⑤直近の全日本選手権ジュニアの部シングルス 4 位以内の者
⑥直近の全日本選手権カデットの部(13、14 歳)シングルス 2 位以内の者
⑦直近のインターハイシングルス 4 位以内の者
⑧直近の全国中学校大会シングルス 2 位以内の者
⑨JOC エリートアカデミーの者
⑩海外で活躍中の選手で、NT �£�£が推薦する者
⑪NT 選手、NT 候�£�選手の者
⑫特に NT �£�£が推薦する者
2 ITTF ワールドジュニアサーキット大会等のジュニア・ユースを対象とした国際大会に自己負担で参
加希望する選手の選考基準は以下の通りとする。以下の条件を満たした選手は、JNT、HNT �£�£の推
薦を経て国際大会の出場を認めるものとする。
①直近のインターハイシングルス 16 位以内の者
②直近の全日本選手権ジュニアの部シングルス 16 位以内の者
③直近の全国中学校大会シングルス 16 位以内の者
�£直近の全日本選手権カデットの部シングルス 8 位以内の者
⑤直近の全日本選手権ホープスの部シングルス 4 位以内の者
⑥JOC エリートアカデミーの者
⑦海外で活躍中の選手で、JNT �£�£が推薦する者
⑧特に JNT �£�£が推薦する者

第 31 条(選手選考への異議申し立て)
選手選考への異議申し立てについては、以下のように定める。
(1)選手が第 8 条(3)(4)、第 11 条(3)(5)、第 29 条及び第 30 条に基づく本協会決定に対し、仲
�£�の申し立てを行う場合、その申し立ては決定の日、あるいは本協会ウェブサイト掲載の日か
ら 2 週間以内に公益財�£法人日本スポーツ仲�£�機構に到達しなければならない。また本協会は
競技会への�£表選手の選定結果について、決定当日、あるいは本協会事務局の 2 業務日以内に
本協会ウェブサイト(http://www.jtta.or.jp)に掲載する。

Article 27 (Selection and precedence of NT, JNT and HNT players)
The selection and precedence for NT and JNT players are as follows.
(1) NT and JNT directors will select NT and JNT target players by referring to the following tournament results, etc. However,
candidate NT players will also be selected.
① Top 100 in the latest world ranking
② Top 16 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championships
③ Top 8 finisher in the latest All-Japan Adult Championships
�£ Top 8 finisher in the latest All-Japan Inter-Collegiate (Individual Division)
⑤ Top 8 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championships Junior Division
⑥ Top 8 finisher in the latest Inter-High
⑦ Top 8 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championships Cadet Division (13, 14 years old or younger)
⑧ Top 8 finisher in the latest National Junior High School Tournament
⑨ Top 4 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championship Hopes & Cub Divisions
⑩ JOC Elite Academy
⑪ Especially those recommended by NT and JNT directors
(New recommendation / continuous strengthening)
(2) As a general rule, the number of NT players is limited to 10. However, it can be added as needed.
(3) As a general rule, the number of U-18 and U-15 players is limited to 10 each. However, it can be added as needed.
(4) The number of NT candidate players is not specified.
2 The selection and precedence of HNT players are as follows.
(1) The HNT directors will select HNT target players by referring to the following tournament results and selection trial results.
① Top 32 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championships
② Top 16 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championships Junior Division
③ Top 8 finisher in the latest All-Japan Championships Cadet Division (13, 14 years old or younger)
�£ Winner in the latest All-Japan Championship Hopes, Cub, Bambi Division
⑤ HNT selection trial winner, runner-up
・ Winner only for Bambi
⑥ Especially those recommended by HNT directors
・ Top finisher in HNT selection trial
(2) As a general rule, the number of U-12, U10, and U-8 players is limited to 10 each. However, it can be added as needed.

Article 28 (NT, JNT and HNT activities)
The activities of NT, JNT and HNT are defined as follows.
(1) NT, JNT and HNT players / development staff will participate in training camps and domestic / international competitions.
(2) Communicate with the athlete's parent instructors.

Article 29 (Selection of athletes dispatched to the Olympic Games and World Championships)
The method for selecting athletes for the Olympic and World Championships is as follows.
(1) Selection criteria suitable for each competition will be prepared in advance and announced after approval by the board of directors. The timing of the announcement will be decided by the Development Headquarters and will be thoroughly known for each category.
(2) Development Headquarters will decide representative players for each competition based on the selection criteria and report to the board of directors.

Article 30 (Selection of athletes who wish to participate in international competitions at their own expense)
The selection criteria for athletes who wish to participate in international competitions such as the ITTF World Tour at their own expense are as follows.
Athletes who meet the following conditions shall be admitted to the international competition after being recommended by the NT coach. However, the number of participants may be limited due to the number of entries in the tournament.
① Top 100 in the latest world ranking
② Top 16 in singles of the latest All-Japan Championship
③ Top 8 in singles of the latest All-Japan Adult Championships
�£ Top 8 in singles of the latest All-Japan Inter-Collegiate (Individual Division)
⑤ Top 4 in singles of the latest All-Japan Championships Junior Division
⑥ Top 2 in singles of the latest All-Japan Championships Cadet Division (13, 14 years old)
⑦ Top 4 in singles of the latest Inter-High
⑧ Top 2 in singles of the latest National Junior High School Tournament
⑨ JOC Elite Academy enrollee
⑩ Players who are active overseas and recommended by the NT directors
⑪ NT players, NT candidate players
⑫ Especially those recommended by the NT directors
2 The selection criteria for athletes who wish to participate in international competitions for juniors and cadets such as the ITTF World Junior Circuit competitions at their own expense are as follows. Athletes who meet the following conditions shall be allowed to participate in international competitions after being recommended by JNT and HNT coaches.
① Top 16 in singles of the latest Inter-High
② Top 16 in singles of the latest All-Japan Championships Junior Division
③ Top 16 in singles of the latest National Junior High School Tournament
�£ Top 8 in sinles of the latest All-Japan Championships Cadet Division
⑤ Top 4 in singles of the latest All-Japan Championship Hopes Division
⑥ JOC Elite Academy enrollee
⑦ Players who are active overseas and recommended by JNT directors
⑧ Especially those recommended by JNT directors

Article 31 (Objections to Player Selection)
Objections to player selection shall be stipulated as follows.
(1) If an athlete makes a petition for arbitration against the Association's decision based on Articles 8 (3) (4), 11 (3) (5), 29 and 30, the petition must reach the Japan Sports Arbitration Agency within 2 weeks from the date of the decision or the date of posting on the Association's website. In addition, the Association will post the results of the selection of representative athletes for the competition on the Association's website (http://www.jtta.or.jp) on the day of the decision or within 2 business days of the Association's secretariat.

Edited by zeio - 11/12/2020 at 9:56am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/11/2020 at 11:23pm
South Korea, like Hong Kong and Japan, has separate selection mechanisms for senior and junior teams.

Quick takeaway:
Hong Kong - World ranking is a criterion of consideration for senior international competitions. Starting in Apr 1, 2013, for the team and its athletes to get support and funding for 4 years, the Hong Kong Sports Institute has a mechanism called Elite Vote Support Scheme(EVSS). Long story short, you need to earn enough points either by getting a medal or finishing within 4-8 or top 1/3 in Olympic Games, World Championships, Asian Games, World Cup, Asian Cup, International Open etc..

https://www.hksi.org.hk/support-to-sports/tier-a-tier-b-sports
Quote In its role as the Government’s elite sport training systems delivery agent, the HKSI is responsible for providing a high quality training environment and support services for high performance athletes with the aim of grooming athletes to achieve good results at international sporting events. Under the HKSAR Government's Elite Vote Support Scheme (EVSS), achievements of both senior and junior athletes at major international competitions will be used as the selection criterion to identify high performance sports to be supported by the HKSI for a period of four years. Review will be conducted every two years which is aligned with the Asian Games and Olympic Games cycles, to provide stable support for sports within the four-year support cycle.


https://www.hksi.org.hk/f/page/53/Criteria%20and%20guidelines%20(26%20Oct%202017).pdf
Quote 7. Due to a lack of uniformity in the ranking systems for different sports, international ranking will not be used as an assessment parameter.
...
11.International opens or professional events with the participation of six or more current world top ten ranking athletes will be considered equivalent to an event at the 4/5-point level.


Japan - Top 100 in world ranking get drafted automatically for senior team, with no upper limit, but the team is limited to 10 players each, which can be expanded as necessary.
South Korea - Top 20 in world ranking get drafted automatically for senior team, with no upper limit, but the team is limited to 16 players each.

Edited by zeio - 11/11/2020 at 11:27pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2020 at 11:29am
Chinese Taipei. They have separate trials for senior(1 time), junior(2 times), cadet(1 time) and 15-year-old category(1 time) every year.

For senior, top 50 in world ranking and winner of the trial the prior year are exempt from the trial and get drafted automatically. Top 12 finishers of the trial get drafted.

For 2020, LYJ, CCY, CCA, Feng Yu-hsin plus another 12 top finishers.
Quote      合作金庫      林昀儒      2019年12月世界排名第7名
1      合作金庫      莊智淵      2019年12月世界排名第35名
1      合作金庫      陳建安      2019年12月世界排名第49名
1      合作金庫      馮翊新      108年全國桌球錦標賽男子單打冠軍


https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/2020111226210.doc
https://www.cttta.org.tw/news.asp?page=1&type=
110年度國手選拔賽競賽規程
Quote 十五、錄取名額:
(一)男子組:下列三項錄取名額。
1.報名當月(11月)國際桌總公佈世界排名前50名內之選手。
2.109年度全國桌球錦標賽男子單打賽冠軍。
3.本次比賽錄取12名。
(二)女子組:下列三項錄取名額。
1.報名當月(11月)國際桌總公佈世界排名前50名內之選手。
2.109年度全國桌球錦標賽女子單打賽冠軍。
3.本次比賽錄取12名。


https://act.innosoft.com.tw/tabletennis/pages/b.aspx?page=In_MeetingSearch_light.html&method=In_Dashboard_MeetingList_light
https://www.cttta.org.tw/news_Detail.asp?nid=2132
109年度中華桌球國手選拔賽及時成績
Quote 十六、錄取名額:
(一)男子組:下列三項錄取名額。
1.報名當月(12月)國際桌總公佈世界排名前50名內之選手。
2.108年度全國桌球錦標賽男子單打賽冠軍。
3.本次比賽錄取12名。
(二)女子組:下列三項錄取名額。
1.報名當月(12月)國際桌總公佈世界排名前50名內之選手。
2.108年度全國桌球錦標賽女子單打賽冠軍。
3.本次比賽錄取12名。


https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/202082855200.doc
https://www.cttta.org.tw/news.asp?page=4&type=
109年第2次青少年桌球國手選拔賽競賽規程

https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/20208131800.doc
https://www.cttta.org.tw/news.asp?page=3&type=
109年15歲青少年國手選拔競賽規程

https://www.cttta.org.tw/files/News/202063049360.doc
https://www.cttta.org.tw/news.asp?page=5&type=
109年度少年桌球國手選拔暨排名賽競賽規程

Edited by zeio - 11/12/2020 at 11:32am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2020 at 12:58pm
Should a Olympic coach be able to pick the team?  My thought is that sometimes there is a great player who has earned a spot on the team, but has such a toxic personality, that having them on the team hurts the team.  Would it be good if the coach could pick one player without a tryout and throw one off the team who the coach may not like?

In the end the coach is responsible for the team results.  Shouldn't the coach pick the players that they think will get the best results for the team?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2020 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Should a Olympic coach be able to pick the team?  My thought is that sometimes there is a great player who has earned a spot on the team, but has such a toxic personality, that having them on the team hurts the team.  Would it be good if the coach could pick one player without a tryout and throw one off the team who the coach may not like?

In the end the coach is responsible for the team results.  Shouldn't the coach pick the players that they think will get the best results for the team?



Nice invitation for corruption and friends favors
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2020 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Should a Olympic coach be able to pick the team?  My thought is that sometimes there is a great player who has earned a spot on the team, but has such a toxic personality, that having them on the team hurts the team.  Would it be good if the coach could pick one player without a tryout and throw one off the team who the coach may not like?

In the end the coach is responsible for the team results.  Shouldn't the coach pick the players that they think will get the best results for the team?

Nice invitation for corruption and friends favors

You are correct.  There a few coaches I would trust to pick a team, but not many.  The person who picks the coach would have to be very trustworthy.  Unfortunately we're in a sport where very few players trust other players and coaches.  I think years of unethical behavior by many justifies that feeling.

Coaches I know I could trust.  Stefan Feth and Sampson Dubina.  I'm sure there are others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2020 at 5:00pm
Many good coaches when given autonomy over team selection resort to an objective system of some sort that may combine rankings with team competitions, especially if they were former international players.  The main thing is for most players to agree that the best players were selected and that they couldn't have performed as well as the players selected given the opportunity(or that they had but couldn't convert on that opportunity).
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/12/2020 at 7:34pm
The USA is different. The team does not train together. There is no central location where all meet. There is no stipend for a player to train year-round. It's basically a bunch of players scattered across the country, doing their own thing, who come together for one competition to decide who will be on the US Team that year. The way it was setup seemed fine to me, most slots decided by a competition with a very few possible exceptions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/13/2020 at 6:09am
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

The USA is different. The team does not train together. There is no central location where all meet. There is no stipend for a player to train year-round. It's basically a bunch of players scattered across the country, doing their own thing, who come together for one competition to decide who will be on the US Team that year. The way it was setup seemed fine to me, most slots decided by a competition with a very few possible exceptions.

Many countries do not train together that much more than in the US.  No stipend either other than corporate sponsorship, and even that is more club and opportunity oriented.  The difference is that most people take TT seriously as a sport and know who the best performing players are.  You would be hard pressed to find any of the best players in any country outside of Europe and Asia playing abroad and being forced to come back to trials to qualify.


Edited by NextLevel - 11/14/2020 at 10:36am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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