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FH strawberry

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    Posted: 12/21/2020 at 5:01am
We've been introduced to the BH strawberry before which has been used to great success by many Japanese players. So the idea is that you perform a BH pendulum serve on the return, with the bat starting at 9 o'clock, rotating anticlockwise till it reaches 12 o'clock. Depending on whether you contact the ball before or after 6 o'clock you can produce either side-underspin or sidetopspin. 

So far I haven't seen anyone use this crap before, but theoretically you could do a FH strawberry too lmao... LOL so the idea is to do a FH pendulum serve on the service return, your bat starts at 3 o'clock and rotates clockwise till it reaches 12 o'clock again. I just tried it in front of the mirror and it looks so ridiculous that it might actually be super effective Tongue

Once I add both of these into my arsenal (plus the sidespin pushflick), I think I'll finally have reached my goal of being the most confusing and disgusting server/receiver in my circle LOL.... 


Edited by blahness - 12/21/2020 at 5:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 10:00am
I think I’ve seen Xu Xin perform it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I think I’ve seen Xu Xin perform it

My thoughts exactly, seems to be more natural and easier with the penhold grip. It's alot more of an awkward motion for shakehand grip. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 12:06pm
You mean the version of the strawberry but on the forehand for shake handers? been around a bit I think about 2019? If I'm thinking the correct stroke. I thought it was called something else mind.

Edited by ghostzen - 12/21/2020 at 12:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 2:08pm
i saw someone did it every effectively in real life. i think he had an unorthodox shakehand grip and that’s why he can do it. The standard grip is not ideal for this stroke.
I tried to replicate it but the quality is nowhere near his shots. Maybe i miss something. Need to record a video next time i see him, not sure when because i don’t see him often.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

I think I’ve seen Xu Xin perform it

My thoughts exactly, seems to be more natural and easier with the penhold grip. It's alot more of an awkward motion for shakehand grip. 

I don't think it's that crazy, it's basically the Waldner FH sideswipe receive extended to a full circle to make it produce more spin and opens up the possibility of creating strong sidetopspin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

You mean the version of the strawberry but on the forehand for shake handers? been around a bit I think about 2019? If I'm thinking the correct stroke. I thought it was called something else mind.

Nah it hasn't been around at all, no video no proof....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

i saw someone did it every effectively in real life. i think he had an unorthodox shakehand grip and that’s why he can do it. The standard grip is not ideal for this stroke.
I tried to replicate it but the quality is nowhere near his shots. Maybe i miss something. Need to record a video next time i see him, not sure when because i don’t see him often.

The weakness is at 6 o'clock the FH strawberry stroke, it's really hard to close the angle (unlike the BH strawberry) unless you had a high centre of gravity, which I suspect would limit its effectiveness to underspin/no spin serves/sideunderspin serves. I'll have to try it out with a partner to develop it for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

You mean the version of the strawberry but on the forehand for shake handers? been around a bit I think about 2019? If I'm thinking the correct stroke. I thought it was called something else mind.

Nah it hasn't been around at all, no video no proof....

You mean this? Not the best example but... 
 



Edited by ghostzen - 12/21/2020 at 3:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

You mean the version of the strawberry but on the forehand for shake handers? been around a bit I think about 2019? If I'm thinking the correct stroke. I thought it was called something else mind.

Nah it hasn't been around at all, no video no proof....


No. A strawberry basically is a pendulum serve done on the receive. See below for the BH version. 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:34pm
I'm Aware of the stroke I play against it a bit...

So the strawberry on the forehand is similar to the video link post from Rory Scott?

Or is that totally not the shot you are talking about.

Maybe a video of you doing the stroke in a match or practice?


Edited by ghostzen - 12/21/2020 at 3:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

I'm Aware of the stroke I play against it a bit...

So the strawberry on the forehand is similar to the video link post from Rory Scott?

Or is that totally not the shot you are talking about. 

No, it's the opposite sidespin. BH strawberry = doing a BH pendulum serve on the receive. FH strawberry = doing a FH pendulum serve on the receive, not too sure what is so hard to understand....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

I'm Aware of the stroke I play against it a bit...

So the strawberry on the forehand is similar to the video link post from Rory Scott?

Or is that totally not the shot you are talking about. 

No, it's the opposite sidespin. BH strawberry = doing a BH pendulum serve on the receive. FH strawberry = doing a FH pendulum serve on the receive, not too sure what is so hard to understand....

Sorry would you mind showing it? If that's OK? As it's a totally new shot. It would be interesting to get to see it against a match or practice ball. Sounds really interesting to be honest.

I thought you were talking about Rory's type of return hence the link to show.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

I'm Aware of the stroke I play against it a bit...

So the strawberry on the forehand is similar to the video link post from Rory Scott?

Or is that totally not the shot you are talking about. 

No, it's the opposite sidespin. BH strawberry = doing a BH pendulum serve on the receive. FH strawberry = doing a FH pendulum serve on the receive, not too sure what is so hard to understand....

Sorry would you mind showing it? If that's OK? As it's a totally new shot. It would be interesting to get to see it against a match or practice ball. Sounds really interesting to be honest.

I thought you were talking about Rory's type of return hence the link to show.

If you're a supposedly high level player who doesnt know what a FH pendulum serve I can't help you lol. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 4:15pm
How many titles you won?? Wink BTW.... LOL... .(no harm meant really I was being dry) without Joking I was actually honestly curious like I said there wasn't any ill intent.It would have been cool to see the stroke in action against various balls and spins... But if you can't show it in action no probs. Interesting idea to devolop honestly.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

How many titles you won?? Wink BTW.... LOL... .(no harm meant really I was being dry) without Joking I was actually honestly curious like I said there wasn't any ill intent.It would have been cool to see the stroke in action against various balls and spins... But if you can't show it in action no probs. Interesting idea to devolop honestly.   

And what titles have you won? 

I'm just surprised because I talked about this with my circle of friends and they all understood what I meant easily. You're supposedly a much higher level player so I'm very confused by you completely misunderstanding the description of the stroke. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 4:38pm
So you haven't won much then? ... You go first...joking of course Wink LOL

I'm a bit dry on the jokes so excuse as I have said to you before on other threads. I have no ill intent at all. 

I just can't see how that can work in a match ....I thought it was a straightforward ask but honestly no probs really. 







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by ghostzen ghostzen wrote:

So you haven't won much then? ... You go first...joking of course Wink LOL

I'm a bit dry on the jokes so excuse as I have said to you before on other threads. I have no ill intent at all. 

I just can't see how that can work in a match ....I thought it was a straightforward ask but honestly no probs really. 


It's OK, you don't need to learn it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 5:27pm
It would have been good if you could have shown it but I understand. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/21/2020 at 5:38pm
Ok I don't have access to a table yet, but I recorded the basic arm movement here....






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote balldance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2020 at 2:10am
so i misunderstood what you mean about this stroke. I think it was something different (the fh version of bh chiquita, which is much less known)
But if it’s the fh pendulum stroke for receive, i don’t think it’s something new. People have used it for decades, only the movement range is not as exaggerated as the Bh version, more sideway than upward. Just like when people do fh pendulum serve, they don’t raise their arm high after contact the ball like the bh serve.
You can see something like that at 3:26 in this video https://youtu.be/bVCHTvQxp7s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/22/2020 at 2:45am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

so i misunderstood what you mean about this stroke. I think it was something different (the fh version of bh chiquita, which is much less known)
But if it’s the fh pendulum stroke for receive, i don’t think it’s something new. People have used it for decades, only the movement range is not as exaggerated as the Bh version, more sideway than upward. Just like when people do fh pendulum serve, they don’t raise their arm high after contact the ball like the bh serve.
You can see something like that at 3:26 in this video https://youtu.be/bVCHTvQxp7s

I believe my version of the FH chiquita is the FH pushflick (in the other thread) - you can produce both sidetopspin as well as side underspin with that stroke - the sidetopspin flick is basically like a chiquita - same movement with a FH flick except you wrap more around the side. 

I have learnt the BH and FH fade (or sideswipe) with most of the movement going sideways (the one that Gucchy does), however I believe the strawberry which has a more pronounced upwards component and a larger stroke is significantly more aggressive because you can impart a lot more topspin and pace on the ball with ease, and because of the larger stroke and faster bat movement the spin variations can be more deceptive. To me it's like an evolution of the fade to produce higher quality shots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 9:01am
Hmm had a hit today and I think it's promising. One important thing is to view it as an extension of the sideswipe rather than a completely new stroke. So it has to still start with the bat roughly horizontal or at most slightly pointing downwards. It's at its best against sideunderspin and underspin serves because you can perform a controlled sidetopspin flick of them which are always very surprising to any opponent (who would have thought those serves are unattackable). When I had good feeling for it, at one time I was just getting outright flick winners off underspin serves which is actually kinda insane. 

But will definitely need some training here because I'm not so good at the sideswipe feeling in the first place. 




Edited by blahness - 12/23/2020 at 9:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/23/2020 at 9:35am
Originally posted by balldance balldance wrote:

so i misunderstood what you mean about this stroke. I think it was something different (the fh version of bh chiquita, which is much less known)
But if it’s the fh pendulum stroke for receive, i don’t think it’s something new. People have used it for decades, only the movement range is not as exaggerated as the Bh version, more sideway than upward. Just like when people do fh pendulum serve, they don’t raise their arm high after contact the ball like the bh serve.
You can see something like that at 3:26 in this video https://youtu.be/bVCHTvQxp7s
I watched till the end and there's a lot of very interesting receives there (definitely no time to learn all of them haha, some of the chiquita variants look really interesting to learn too)
I actually really like Gucchy's version of the strawberry receives (on both FH and BH), very sudden and generates good amounts of sidetopspin on them. He has a smaller movement than Kato Miyu (who've I've tried to model my stroke after) but it's still quite deceptive and it seems easier to learn than Kato's large stroke strawberry which I was struggling to perform sometimes due to lack of time/bad positions.
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