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Playing Against a Power Looper

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2020 at 4:06am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

A good way to learn how to push effectively is to learn the chopblock. So basically a good drill is if someone just serves long fast sidetopspin to you and your aim is to chopblock it as spinny as possible. Later on you can even chopblock loops. 

When you can chopblock a loop, a sidetopspin short serve is nothing...

Why put cart before horse?

Chopblocking against side top is a different skillset than being able to safely push service for placement.



It is very helpful to develop the brushing skill required to produce extremely spinny pushes. If you're pushing against underspin you can often borrow the incoming spin, but if you push against sidetopspin you're forced to brush hard to override the incoming spin. 

It's kinda like looping topspin vs looping underspin... looping underspin is more helpful to develop the brushing skills to loop. 

Yep. Attaining good quality backspin on a topspin/sidetopspin is the ultimate test of whether your technique is resilient. If you can overpower the topspin, you can make a heavy push out of backspin  / no spin.

From many experiments not only have I experimented on my self, but on opponents.

In push to push drills, many players even if you tell them you are serving no spin or topspin, do not do anything but a soft push that results in the ball popping up. With these players, unless they are receptive to being taught, you have to serve decently spinny backspin in order to practice your pushing.

Now using FH Short pips, I can push with no spin or heavy backspin, but it requires good technique, bat angle and good acceleration in order to do the latter  - I am glad to have learned the right fundamentals with receiving all sorts of spins with a push, because with FH pips, now you have so much control. 

If your technique is very solid, I find the demands on timing become less. With short pips, this benefit of having good technique and being firm is even greater. 
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2020 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

A good way to learn how to push effectively is to learn the chopblock. So basically a good drill is if someone just serves long fast sidetopspin to you and your aim is to chopblock it as spinny as possible. Later on you can even chopblock loops. 

When you can chopblock a loop, a sidetopspin short serve is nothing...

Why put cart before horse?

Chopblocking against side top is a different skillset than being able to safely push service for placement.



It is very helpful to develop the brushing skill required to produce extremely spinny pushes. If you're pushing against underspin you can often borrow the incoming spin, but if you push against sidetopspin you're forced to brush hard to override the incoming spin. 

It's kinda like looping topspin vs looping underspin... looping underspin is more helpful to develop the brushing skills to loop. 

Yep. Attaining good quality backspin on a topspin/sidetopspin is the ultimate test of whether your technique is resilient. If you can overpower the topspin, you can make a heavy push out of backspin  / no spin.

From many experiments not only have I experimented on my self, but on opponents.

In push to push drills, many players even if you tell them you are serving no spin or topspin, do not do anything but a soft push that results in the ball popping up. With these players, unless they are receptive to being taught, you have to serve decently spinny backspin in order to practice your pushing.

Now using FH Short pips, I can push with no spin or heavy backspin, but it requires good technique, bat angle and good acceleration in order to do the latter  - I am glad to have learned the right fundamentals with receiving all sorts of spins with a push, because with FH pips, now you have so much control. 

If your technique is very solid, I find the demands on timing become less. With short pips, this benefit of having good technique and being firm is even greater. 

+1. I would add something I recently learnt which increased the quality of my push immensely - treating the push as a whole body movement. Rather than using your forearm/wrist to spin the ball, you rotate into it and throw your body weight at the ball. It's a very subtle movement, but if you look at the best pros they all do it. Same goes for the FH flick, and all serves. If you do this well, most players who do not use their body well would not be able to loop your pushes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/25/2020 at 9:04am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by Basquests Basquests wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

A good way to learn how to push effectively is to learn the chopblock. So basically a good drill is if someone just serves long fast sidetopspin to you and your aim is to chopblock it as spinny as possible. Later on you can even chopblock loops. 

When you can chopblock a loop, a sidetopspin short serve is nothing...

Why put cart before horse?

Chopblocking against side top is a different skillset than being able to safely push service for placement.



It is very helpful to develop the brushing skill required to produce extremely spinny pushes. If you're pushing against underspin you can often borrow the incoming spin, but if you push against sidetopspin you're forced to brush hard to override the incoming spin. 

It's kinda like looping topspin vs looping underspin... looping underspin is more helpful to develop the brushing skills to loop. 

Yep. Attaining good quality backspin on a topspin/sidetopspin is the ultimate test of whether your technique is resilient. If you can overpower the topspin, you can make a heavy push out of backspin  / no spin.

From many experiments not only have I experimented on my self, but on opponents.

In push to push drills, many players even if you tell them you are serving no spin or topspin, do not do anything but a soft push that results in the ball popping up. With these players, unless they are receptive to being taught, you have to serve decently spinny backspin in order to practice your pushing.

Now using FH Short pips, I can push with no spin or heavy backspin, but it requires good technique, bat angle and good acceleration in order to do the latter  - I am glad to have learned the right fundamentals with receiving all sorts of spins with a push, because with FH pips, now you have so much control. 

If your technique is very solid, I find the demands on timing become less. With short pips, this benefit of having good technique and being firm is even greater. 

+1. I would add something I recently learnt which increased the quality of my push immensely - treating the push as a whole body movement. Rather than using your forearm/wrist to spin the ball, you rotate into it and throw your body weight at the ball. It's a very subtle movement, but if you look at the best pros they all do it. Same goes for the FH flick, and all serves. If you do this well, most players who do not use their body well would not be able to loop your pushes. 

Yeah for sure, I  personally started doing that when I looked at a tennis slice / pros slicing in tennis, and looked to that for inspiration in vastly improving my pushing technique. You can also just look at a long pimple defender and how they 'chop.'

Both of these subsets of players put a big chunk of their body's levers into their pushes, just like any good player will put a lot of their body into generating more racquet head speed for their loop.

Any shot intent on generating high amounts of spin will benefit from generating racquet head speed, which is then converted into either spin or speed in some ratio.

To generate more racquet head speed, you must use more than just your arm/wrist.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2020 at 12:40am
So you're recommending developing an advanced push technique.

If you have decent footwork, and the push is coming from your feet and core, this might not be a huge stretch.

But the push is still best learned as reversing underspin, before you moving on to develop the touch to continue topspin...


Edited by icontek - 12/27/2020 at 12:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2020 at 7:47am
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:

So you're recommending developing an advanced push technique.

If you have decent footwork, and the push is coming from your feet and core, this might not be a huge stretch.

But the push is still best learned as reversing underspin, before you moving on to develop the touch to continue topspin...

OP is an advanced player, and a more advanced push technique would probably have huge benefits for his game. 

I wish I had OPs speed and reactions and defense, he is such a fast player!




Edited by blahness - 12/27/2020 at 7:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bars Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2021 at 1:37pm
take a step back when hes opening. it would be easier to return
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2021 at 1:39pm
Don't let him/her play back . . . keep 'em close to the table . . . can't power loop over table. ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2021 at 4:55pm
seems like a lot of people are interacting with my videos. I appreciate all of it, and it would be great if y’all could share my videos with your friends too :)
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