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anti penholder tactics

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blahness View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/30/2020 at 7:29am
Against standard penholders I just found an incredible serve against them, which is the FH heavy sidespin serve to the BH short corner (not the cockscrew variant). If you serve it spinny enough it's close to unpushable as they'll pop this up where you can then loopkill to their wide FH. Any balls that are long you just loopkill to their wide FH as they'll be out of position.

Also I think it's damn awkward for the RPB since they have to cock back their wrist into a position where they have to contact the ball more to the right side of the ball which can't be done unless they have a BH dominant grip like Wang Hao. And once they do the RPB the wide FH corner is again wide open. 

Doesn't really work against shakehand players because they will just step to the left and BH loop this all day long comfortably. 


Edited by blahness - 12/30/2020 at 7:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote passifid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2020 at 9:47am
this is perfect serve to do that inside out Xu Xin style flick on FYI
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2020 at 4:52pm
if you can practice your serves where the ball lands right next to the net brackets of the penholder backhand, then you have a real winner.  I use that sidespin serve as part of my repertoire, but it isn't spinny enough, but at least the placement is there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2020 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by passifid passifid wrote:

this is perfect serve to do that inside out Xu Xin style flick on FYI

I know what you're talking about haha...yes that is true but most players did not learn it Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/30/2020 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by liulin04 liulin04 wrote:

if you can practice your serves where the ball lands right next to the net brackets of the penholder backhand, then you have a real winner.  I use that sidespin serve as part of my repertoire, but it isn't spinny enough, but at least the placement is there.

I tried a few times, yeah you have to make it go almost horizontally after it leaves the side of the table, then it's super effective. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 8:50am
Any wide serve to the backhand is a good start against penholders. But I think a wide side-backspin even harder to attack.

Keep in mind you'll just as likely get a wide left-sidespin return to your backhand, so a loopkill down the line will take some skill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 8:57am
Originally posted by lasta lasta wrote:

Any wide serve to the backhand is a good start against penholders. But I think a wide side-backspin even harder to attack.

Keep in mind you'll just as likely get a wide left-sidespin return to your backhand, so a loopkill down the line will take some skill.

It's easier to push the sidebackspin serve than the sidespin serve... sidebackspin also makes it harder for you to attack the 3rd ball. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 9:10am
10:35 side-push is a pretty stand stroke for penholders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AUDoW50MRA)

You'll likely have a higher chance of pop-up if they overestimate the backspin on pushing a side-back serve.


Edited by lasta - 12/31/2020 at 9:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 9:25am
Originally posted by lasta lasta wrote:

10:35 side-push is a pretty stand stroke for penholders (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AUDoW50MRA)

You'll likely have a higher chance of pop-up if they overestimate the backspin on pushing a side-back serve.

It's still gonna go long most of the time, and hence loopable. If you serve sidebackspin they're gonna push short and you lost your chance to attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lasta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 9:31am
Try to get good spin, more side than back, but enough to let them think there is backspin in it. If it doesn't pop up, it will be more likely be longer to your backhand or middle. More predictable for you.

Side push/chop-block works too well against pure sidespin or even topspin serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by lasta lasta wrote:

Try to get good spin, more side than back, but enough to let them think there is backspin in it. If it doesn't pop up, it will be more likely be longer to your backhand or middle. More predictable for you.

Side push/chop-block works too well against pure sidespin or even topspin serves.

I definitely do have a side backspin serve, but I don't serve that until they proven they can control my sidespin serve haha....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wappak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2020 at 10:19pm
most penholders are forehand dominant, try to put long ball on their bh, keep the ball always low and put some backspin. then surprise them with cross court ball on their fh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2021 at 8:23am
Originally posted by wappak wappak wrote:

most penholders are forehand dominant, try to put long ball on their bh, keep the ball always low and put some backspin. then surprise them with cross court ball on their fh

Hmm the penholders who have RPB would eat this ball for breakfast. I honestly don't know that many penholders who play without RPB these days. 

I found the short super wide sidespin serve to be very anti RPB in it's design (along with the side backspin variant)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wappak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2021 at 1:30am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by wappak wappak wrote:

most penholders are forehand dominant, try to put long ball on their bh, keep the ball always low and put some backspin. then surprise them with cross court ball on their fh

Hmm the penholders who have RPB would eat this ball for breakfast. I honestly don't know that many penholders who play without RPB these days. 

I found the short super wide sidespin serve to be very anti RPB in it's design (along with the side backspin variant)

im one sided penhold, im not sure about RPB, but if think RPB players are still better in their FH, if you watch some matches between penhold vs shakehand, shakehand players always put the ball in the BH of penhold. i think penhold BH is inferior to the BH of shakehand even RPB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2021 at 6:15am
Originally posted by wappak wappak wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by wappak wappak wrote:

most penholders are forehand dominant, try to put long ball on their bh, keep the ball always low and put some backspin. then surprise them with cross court ball on their fh

Hmm the penholders who have RPB would eat this ball for breakfast. I honestly don't know that many penholders who play without RPB these days. 

I found the short super wide sidespin serve to be very anti RPB in it's design (along with the side backspin variant)

im one sided penhold, im not sure about RPB, but if think RPB players are still better in their FH, if you watch some matches between penhold vs shakehand, shakehand players always put the ball in the BH of penhold. i think penhold BH is inferior to the BH of shakehand even RPB.

Yeah the long fast heavy sidespin or sidebackspin serve is one of my favourites against penholders...

The short wide serve just tests their footwork and touch all that much more.
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