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shoulder health

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blahness View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01/01/2021 at 3:21am
Been watching a lot of fitness videos recently, and I think something that i learnt is that the shoulders work best in external rotation and not internal rotation (which can lead to impingement of the rotator cuff). 

I've actually checked all my strokes and they are indeed within the external rotation plane of the shoulder, but there's a lot of bad ways of doing it.

It's something that is probably worth thinking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2021 at 5:22am
3 really good exercises for shoulder health:

1. External rotation with resistance bands or dumbells (an object that weights 2kg works too)

Take the resistance band with both hands, tuck your elbows into your sides and pull the band (like you’re trying to rip it apart) go for higher reps and if you can get 15 without feeling the burn, increase difficulty by folding the band or grippingly closer to the center. 
You can also tie the band to you door knob, hold the door with the arm closest to your door and only work on one arm.

If you don’t have a band, take a weight (heavy water bottle or anything 2kg) and lie down on your side. Take the weight into your top arm and do the same motion (working against downward force).

2. Shoulder dislocates with resistance band or a stick (if you have poor mobility start with the band) later  add a 1-2 kg weight to the stick and continue to work on getting a closer grip

3. Stretching the pectoralis minor and major 

Example stretch: use a doorframe take the side you want to stretch and put your arm against that side of the frame (don’t use a straight arm or you will do an inferior shoulder stretch instead of the chess stretch; your upper arm should be parallel to your shoulder height and your elbow joint should have 90 degrees). Step forward with the leg of the side you’re stretching. Lean forward and if you want to go deeper into the stretch, turn away from that side a little bit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2021 at 6:58am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

3 really good exercises for shoulder health:

1. External rotation with resistance bands or dumbells (an object that weights 2kg works too)

Take the resistance band with both hands, tuck your elbows into your sides and pull the band (like you’re trying to rip it apart) go for higher reps and if you can get 15 without feeling the burn, increase difficulty by folding the band or grippingly closer to the center. 
You can also tie the band to you door knob, hold the door with the arm closest to your door and only work on one arm.

If you don’t have a band, take a weight (heavy water bottle or anything 2kg) and lie down on your side. Take the weight into your top arm and do the same motion (working against downward force).

2. Shoulder dislocates with resistance band or a stick (if you have poor mobility start with the band) later  add a 1-2 kg weight to the stick and continue to work on getting a closer grip

3. Stretching the pectoralis minor and major 

Example stretch: use a doorframe take the side you want to stretch and put your arm against that side of the frame (don’t use a straight arm or you will do an inferior shoulder stretch instead of the chess stretch; your upper arm should be parallel to your shoulder height and your elbow joint should have 90 degrees). Step forward with the leg of the side you’re stretching. Lean forward and if you want to go deeper into the stretch, turn away from that side a little bit.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 5:46pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

3 really good exercises for shoulder health:

1. External rotation with resistance bands or dumbells (an object that weights 2kg works too)

Take the resistance band with both hands, tuck your elbows into your sides and pull the band (like you’re trying to rip it apart) go for higher reps and if you can get 15 without feeling the burn, increase difficulty by folding the band or grippingly closer to the center. 
You can also tie the band to you door knob, hold the door with the arm closest to your door and only work on one arm.

If you don’t have a band, take a weight (heavy water bottle or anything 2kg) and lie down on your side. Take the weight into your top arm and do the same motion (working against downward force).

2. Shoulder dislocates with resistance band or a stick (if you have poor mobility start with the band) later  add a 1-2 kg weight to the stick and continue to work on getting a closer grip

3. Stretching the pectoralis minor and major 

Example stretch: use a doorframe take the side you want to stretch and put your arm against that side of the frame (don’t use a straight arm or you will do an inferior shoulder stretch instead of the chess stretch; your upper arm should be parallel to your shoulder height and your elbow joint should have 90 degrees). Step forward with the leg of the side you’re stretching. Lean forward and if you want to go deeper into the stretch, turn away from that side a little bit.


1 is really, really difficult. I actually tried doing it a couple times this week.
But hopefully it addresses some muscular weakness in the area!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 9:29pm
I have googled "shoulder internal vs external rotation" and got nothing useful as the "internal rotation" I found is irrelevant to table tennis. But I can think of the shoulder rotating down (when you try to pull your elbow as far back as possible) as something we do, for FH loops. Is this the "internal" rotation to be avoided?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2021 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

I have googled "shoulder internal vs external rotation" and got nothing useful as the "internal rotation" I found is irrelevant to table tennis. But I can think of the shoulder rotating down (when you try to pull your elbow as far back as possible) as something we do, for FH loops. Is this the "internal" rotation to be avoided?


The end position of the BH is often in external rotation, same with the starting position of the FH. FH stroke is mostly in the external rotation area (unless you go crazy with the followthrough) so it's generally fine, it's the BH stroke which is often easy to go wrong imo. 

Some examples for the BH, you would have to do a lot of shoulder internal rotation if you bring your elbow very far in front of your body or to your left (I used to do that which might explain why those strokes never felt comfortable for me). 

Unrelated to this, higher elbow positions for the BH are also more susceptible to impingement (similar to how overhead movements are more dangerous for the shoulder in general) 

For my BH, I keep the elbow low (roughly stomach level?), and slightly to the right of my right hip, and just slightly in front of my body (not too far forward).







Edited by blahness - 01/07/2021 at 11:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/08/2021 at 5:44am
On forehand it actually depends on your technique. The further you put your elbow away from your body, the more you will go into internal rotation. If you look at harimoto’s forehand in 2017 for example, you’ll see that he plays with his elbow quite far away from his body. The opposite would be the chicken wing loop (Mizutani). There is nothing wrong with going into internal rotation as long as you have a balanced shoulder (similar strength on internal and external rotation, range of motion). Most people sadly have very weak external rotation and lack shoulder mobility, as they always are in internal rotation due to everyday life (rounded shoulders, working in office, on pc etc.
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