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Playing a BUFF Counterlooper

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bzdz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02/01/2021 at 11:10pm
Hey everyone, you know the drill by now. Here's a match I played a couple weeks ago. My opponent is a super strong counterlooper and the match is very entertaining. Let me know what you think!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 1:08am
A very strong forehand counterlooper, that´s what he is. His BH is weak, almost non-existing.
But even with FH he needed your speed to generate those power counters.
So you basically have two tactics: keep the ball at his BH or slow down your shots with either pushes or slow loops. Every time you did this he lost the point.
I also noticed his pivot is not so good, so I would invite him to open topspin pivoting and block wherever I want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 1:12am
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

Hey everyone, you know the drill by now. Here's a match I played a couple weeks ago. My opponent is a super strong counterlooper and the match is very entertaining. Let me know what you think!


Guy plays like Quadri Aruna haha, amazing FH but terrible BH. Honestly if you had a functional chiquita you would destroy him so hard. The chiquita has a lot of sidespin that curves the ball to his deep BH which makes it incredibly hard to pivot (especially because it can go down the line too), after you force him to use his bad BH you can just pin him there, if he pivots then switch it down the line. And most of his serves look really good for chiquita because they all have sidespin (the chiquita killer is the heavy underspin/no spin serves). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 1:33am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

A very strong forehand counterlooper, that´s what he is. His BH is weak, almost non-existing.
But even with FH he needed your speed to generate those power counters.
So you basically have two tactics: keep the ball at his BH or slow down your shots with either pushes or slow loops. Every time you did this he lost the point.
I also noticed his pivot is not so good, so I would invite him to open topspin pivoting and block wherever I want.

Yeah rewatched the match and was surprised that he struggles against underspin, with his amount of power he should be able to powerloop these underspin balls with ease...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 3:16am
Go heavy or go home vs this dude. Heavy, slow topsin, very heavy. He wasn't killing you on pushes, even to his FH, so why Ma Long BH attack majority of his serves? Just do it enough to put that in his head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 6:16pm
What do you guys think, that guy plays the bh so poorly relative to his fh... would he be better off swapping swapping to a Liu song style long pip backhand? 

I like the style, but you can see here if he loses the power exchanges or can't get to them, there's no real plan b or c. Just hit harder move faster! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

What do you guys think, that guy plays the bh so poorly relative to his fh... would he be better off swapping swapping to a Liu song style long pip backhand? 

I like the style, but you can see here if he loses the power exchanges or can't get to them, there's no real plan b or c. Just hit harder move faster! 

Honestly yeah, guy has a big body and big stroke, if he's not gonna train up the BH to a good level (BH loop, counter, chiquita, etc...), might as well switch to long pips on the BH for defence and variation and even some sneak attacks for eg a long pip BH chiquita will drive many opponents crazy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basquests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 8:58pm
Nice to see the Hunter x Hunter at the end. Best anime OAT.

That dude is huge, maybe he should cosplay as Knuckle!


Edited by Basquests - 02/02/2021 at 8:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2021 at 9:14pm
very nice and helpful. thanx.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 12:56am
Hi which is the buff one?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 2:39am
I don't know the BUFF guy too well, but I do know a bit about him.  Recently he has gotten noticeably better and made some improvements in his game.  He also has a good coach so they probably have some plan as to what to fix now and what to work on down the road.  One of the worst things a player can do, and I know this from personal experience, is to take advice from outside and deviate from their coach's plan.  As long as he is making steady improvements, he should follow the guidelines of his current coach. 

If a player is counterlooping your loop fairly easily you can do many things:

1) take the ball earlier to mess up their timing
2) take the ball later to (yes you guessed it) mess up their timing
3) change the spin on the loop.  Either do heavy spin, nospin, sidespin or inside out spin
4) change the speed of the shot.  Many times a player will back up to anticipate the loop, here you can loop slowly.  If they are close at the table, blast one.
5) add a fake to your motion, act like you are going to hit one place then go somewhere else. 
6) change the arc of the loop which can be tricky to do
7) change the location.  In the video the buff guy rarely backhand counterlooped. 

The worst thing you can do is loop the same speed and spin as it will be counterlooped over and over.  If you are stubborn however, if they counterloop and you fast block to where the opponent isn't, this will also throw them off and make them tight the next time they try it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 5:28am
Did anyone else think that the guy with the bandana and face mask might have been Zaman?

I like to see athletic guys like Chase do well in TT.  In the future, I want to see more body types like football players (not offensive/defensive line but running backs and wide receiver types), water polo, and volleyball players.  I always felt that in sport, a true sport, if both players are about equal in level the more athletic player should win.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 7:36am
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Did anyone else think that the guy with the bandana and face mask might have been Zaman?

I like to see athletic guys like Chase do well in TT.  In the future, I want to see more body types like football players (not offensive/defensive line but running backs and wide receiver types), water polo, and volleyball players.  I always felt that in sport, a true sport, if both players are about equal in level the more athletic player should win.  
most of the top players are no slouches physically. The physically weakest would be Harimoto and Lin Yun-ju tbh, the others in the top 20 are all very athletic.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 9:11am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Did anyone else think that the guy with the bandana and face mask might have been Zaman?

I like to see athletic guys like Chase do well in TT.  In the future, I want to see more body types like football players (not offensive/defensive line but running backs and wide receiver types), water polo, and volleyball players.  I always felt that in sport, a true sport, if both players are about equal in level the more athletic player should win.  
most of the top players are no slouches physically. The physically weakest would be Harimoto and Lin Yun-ju tbh, the others in the top 20 are all very athletic.  

Compare Harimoto and Koki Niwa.... Harimoto is not the weakest.. He grew substantially and put on some serious muscle lately
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Did anyone else think that the guy with the bandana and face mask might have been Zaman?

Nope Zaman does not have that body mass and muscle Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Did anyone else think that the guy with the bandana and face mask might have been Zaman?

I like to see athletic guys like Chase do well in TT.  In the future, I want to see more body types like football players (not offensive/defensive line but running backs and wide receiver types), water polo, and volleyball players.  I always felt that in sport, a true sport, if both players are about equal in level the more athletic player should win.  
most of the top players are no slouches physically. The physically weakest would be Harimoto and Lin Yun-ju tbh, the others in the top 20 are all very athletic.  

Compare Harimoto and Koki Niwa.... Harimoto is not the weakest.. He grew substantially and put on some serious muscle lately
Haha, is Koki Niwa even in the top 20? Yeah I agree Harimoto is a lot physically stronger than Niwa for sure.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/03/2021 at 8:13pm
You have good control and tactics to handle players like this. Your struggle to return serves kept Chase in the match.

Note - I just realized that I played and had a similar physique to Chase about 28 years ago (cover as much table with my FH, avoid BH looping). I believe Lightspin can attest to the physique part. I was 2100 mostly due to athleticism. I improved my TT skills and peaked about 3 years later (I haven't been close to that level since).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 1:37am
That's a nice match.  Where is your club?  I travel to Austin for work occasionally.

Fundamentally, Chase likes pace and does not like spin.  When you focused on safe spinny openers and where to place them, you won points.  You clearly have good hands, so you are definitely capable of necessary spin levels and variations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 2:04am
this is the only club in Austin actually, you can look it up on google.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 9:35am
http://www.austintabletennis.net/

It is in a storage facility in the north part of town. Kinda sketchy, but I think it is safe. Absolutely worth a visit once Covid lets us play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

this is the only club in Austin actually, you can look it up on google.
 

There's actually Pong Club down in south Austin, and the University of Texas at Austin TT Club.  However, most of the scene is at ATTC.

Not sure if UT TTC is meeting rn, but it's tough to come and hit at UT TTC since it's in the rec center and you can only come in if someone invites you as a guest.  Pong Club meets twice a week with limited hours.  ATTC is the more competitive club and is open most of the week.  Only catch is that you need to be a member to use the facilities, no walk-ins during COVID unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 1:06pm
Also to note having played against both of these guys - their spin, power, placement etc. is much more "spicy" that what it looks like in the videos LOL Making the adjustments are not trivial. Brian's pushes feel lower than they look and are well placed.  Chase's loops are like lasers.  He has a very powerful step-around.  I'm surprised that he didn't attempt it more often.  It looks like Brian did a good job of preventing that option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bzdz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/04/2021 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by Jeff(ATTC) Jeff(ATTC) wrote:

Originally posted by bzdz bzdz wrote:

this is the only club in Austin actually, you can look it up on google.
 

There's actually Pong Club down in south Austin, and the University of Texas at Austin TT Club.  However, most of the scene is at ATTC.

Not sure if UT TTC is meeting rn, but it's tough to come and hit at UT TTC since it's in the rec center and you can only come in if someone invites you as a guest.  Pong Club meets twice a week with limited hours.  ATTC is the more competitive club and is open most of the week.  Only catch is that you need to be a member to use the facilities, no walk-ins during COVID unfortunately.

Thanks Jeff, actually ATTC changed their restrictions to allow daily passes now, no longer need to be a member :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 12:11am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

http://www.austintabletennis.net/

It is in a storage facility in the north part of town. Kinda sketchy, but I think it is safe. Absolutely worth a visit once Covid lets us play.

Unless something changed about that commercial location since 12 yrs ago, I BH-Man would rate that club as easy to get to and a great facility.


Edited by BH-Man - 02/05/2021 at 12:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 1:36am
Forum: BUFF dude has weak BH.
BUFF dude: YES!

Anyway, I love his pirate/bandit getup.

Edited by zeio - 02/05/2021 at 1:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 2:16am
It would be super cool if you could get him to teach us some tips on his FH counterloop... for me at least it's a super low percentage shot :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 2:34am
Originally posted by dual700 dual700 wrote:

Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Did anyone else think that the guy with the bandana and face mask might have been Zaman?

Nope Zaman does not have that body mass and muscle Big smile

Yeah, I thought he was a masked Zaman for like 5 seconds :) It was more his movements and also the serve motion and free arm.  But once I saw him missing certain shots, I thought nope, definitely not Zaman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2021 at 2:38am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Forum: BUFF dude has weak BH.
BUFF dude: YES!

Anyway, I love his pirate/bandit getup.

Yeah, I saw that nice BH loop too (I think that was his only BH loop).  But he only does it against a sitting duck.  BZ did a good job keeping the ball nice and deep to Chase's BH forcing him to mostly fish.
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