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Grip problem

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kindof99 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03/02/2021 at 10:21pm
I have recently realized that I probably held the paddle the wrong way.

The textbook says that the paddle head should be on the same line as the forearm. However for my grip, the paddle head is way towards the outside of the forearm line. I tried to correct the problem even hooking the paddle inward, but it was really uncomfortable and I felt that my wrist was locked. After a while of forehand drive practice, my grit would go back to the old way of holding the paddle outward.

The problem of holding the paddle outward is that it can be unstable sometimes, and it can produce some unwanted sidespin. 

Has anyone experienced the same problem?  How did you correct it?
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mjamja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2021 at 10:59pm
I think what you are describing is often called hitting with a laid back wrist.  I have this issue.  Like any strongly ingrained habit it will be difficult to change.  Not playing for several weeks and just shadow stroking with the proper wrist angle is one option.  Another would be to tape a flat piece of wood or plastic (like a ruler) to the back of the wrist and arm.  Tape below the wrist, but have piece extend up toward the knuckles so you cannot bend the wrist back.

If you can not break the habit, take advantage of what this grip does allow.  Work on a surprise down the line Fh and an inside out Fh  loop down the line that will curve away from the table.  Also realize that to hit cross court you probably need to either be in a more square stance and/or contact more in front of your body than standard technique would use.

If you ever get to the point where you can hit in both the laid back and neutral wrist positions you can be extremely deceptive with your placements.

Mark - Who is laid back and cool but only because he can not correct his wrist problem and his heater is not working so well.


Edited by mjamja - 03/02/2021 at 11:05pm
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Robin.w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Robin.w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/02/2021 at 11:10pm
When I started with shakehand , I followed the textbook . One year ago, I changed to keep the head outward following the great J.O Waldner.  Feels much better with forehand receiving, forehand top spin (direction control especially),backhand attack... Lots of advantages just like mjamja mentioned.

Edited by Robin.w - 03/02/2021 at 11:18pm
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 5:51am
Mind over body control is a discipline. What I found was that there's nothing that some regular shadow stroking wouldn't fix. The brain is like a muscle, with practice the rewiring becomes easier. 

I'm of the opinion that the wrist shouldn't be in flexion or extension (scientific term) much except for receiving and other special strokes (fade/hook loops for eg), a neutral straight wrist (in line with the forearm)a  has the advantage of being in a biomechanically stronger position for load transfer and is quite important for powerloops. 


Edited by blahness - 03/03/2021 at 5:54am
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kindof99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 9:35am
I prefer to hold the paddle with the paddle head in line of the forearm. My practice partner is a lefty, so it is a problem if I hold it outward as the ball will sometimes come in big forehand angle. I did not realize my grip problem until I practice with a lefty regularly.

Anyway, I found the solution is to hold a little tighter with the thumb and index fingers. Especially the index finger can push the paddle inward. This grip will naturally form a pro-backhand grip, that is how ML holds his paddle.

Do you apply pressure on the dumb and index fingers all the time or just at the contact? 
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kindof99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 9:38am
trying the grip like this coach:

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aerial View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 10:17am
after watching the vid, would it be fair to say it's best to have a slight gap between index finger and bh rubber? or is it best to have the whole index finger touching the bh rubber at all times...

(I believe the former. not sure if my listening comprehension is up to par Embarrassed)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robin.w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 10:50am
Just notice the way I keep the head outward is not a grip problem, it is “wrist position “. In most instructions, the wrist should go a little downward when relaxed and ready. I prefer keeping mine outward a little .
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pitigoi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 11:12am
I have fixed the "outward" issue on my left hand by forcing my pinky to wrap half centimeter less around the handle, and my thumb to (barely) touch the rubber.
You also need to hit a fraction of second sooner; one hour with robot fixed this.

There were some things I miss about the old grip and if the rally last long
I sometimes find myself changing grip, but overall I am glad that I changed.
Right hand: Stiga Allround NCT (74g) /Rasant Grip max/Talon OX red (total 135g)
Left hand, 2020-1: Stiga Allround WRB (67g)/Fastarc G-1 1.8mm/V11 > Extra max 158g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

I prefer to hold the paddle with the paddle head in line of the forearm. My practice partner is a lefty, so it is a problem if I hold it outward as the ball will sometimes come in big forehand angle. I did not realize my grip problem until I practice with a lefty regularly.

Anyway, I found the solution is to hold a little tighter with the thumb and index fingers. Especially the index finger can push the paddle inward. This grip will naturally form a pro-backhand grip, that is how ML holds his paddle.

Do you apply pressure on the dumb and index fingers all the time or just at the contact? 

ML has a straight wrist most of the time too. For me the grip has to be loose until contact and then loosens again, otherwise many strokes wouldn't work.
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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 4:03pm
If you go through and look at some of the greatest shakehand players in history you can find quite a few varieties in grip.  Messing with your grip can quickly send you into the ninth circle of table tennis hell.
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mickd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 8:02pm
I've consciously changed my grip a few times since I started playing, and was able to commit it into muscle memory. You just need to be disciplined. It's easier said than done, and probably harder the longer you've played for. At least for me, I just had to focus on it after every shot, and constantly correct myself until it was fixed. I don't think there is any other way, to be honest...

As for the grip, I think the wrist might not be relaxed enough in the ulnar deviation direction if I'm understanding the description correctly. Flexion and extension should be neutral (so in the middle), and pronation and supination should be so that gravity assists you having a relaxed ulnar deviation. If that makes sense. Maybe it doesn't haha.


Edited by mickd - 03/03/2021 at 8:04pm
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/03/2021 at 11:09pm


Edited by blahness - 03/03/2021 at 11:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FinalFight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/29/2022 at 12:50am
I play several racquet sports and table tennis is the only one where slight grip changes can completely make or break my game. Lately I've been playing around 1900s level, but occasionally I'll have nights where my grip will deviate a bit and then my shots are off all night and I suddenly have no confidence and begin losing to players a level or two down. Earlier I could not get backhand stability, pushes were popping up sky high, and power was not there as I was not making clean contact with the ball and my racket angles seemed to be way off. I just had no comfort earlier and sometimes I just have to take a break for a little while when this happens as the way my game is I'll kind of instinctively settle into a grip without paying attention and then it kind of becomes something I don't think about for a while; but I've had a lot of changes over the years in relation to thumb and forefinger positioning on the paddle. The sad thing is, it's one of those things that when I have a bad night I can't remember how I previously held the bat and then I might have a completely new grip by the next time I play. Grip is one of those things that I hate to think about and I certainly hate it when it becomes a mental barrier and I can't settle on a grip that I like. All I remember is the last few months I've been using some kind of backhand-dominant grip that was working wonders and I was getting a lot of wins in the club against some of the top players in the 2000-2100 range while at the same time dominating against players a bit lower than the level I usually play. But tonight I was losing to players as low as like 1500s and in a lot of ugly dogfight matches that just flew by as I was making unforced error after unforced error or popping pushes up where people had easy slams. Got fixated on a few slight varities of what I thought was my previous grip and none of them seemed to work that well and it was frustrating.

Edited by FinalFight - 04/29/2022 at 1:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwiddleDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/30/2022 at 12:33am
I struggled with grip change for years. I finally settled on a grip where I can easily transition from forehand to backhand with little or no change, unless for banana flip. My fastest improvements came with controlling grip pressure. I simply could not play well with my Viscaria with 09c on my forehand unless my grip was relaxed. I apply most of my pressure with index finger and thumb only. If I tightened up my grip, the 09c felt very dead to me. I have not boosted it. It makes a cracking noise when the sponge is engaged. I used to play with 05hard on both sides, but now only on my backhand. It is so much easier to brush or speed loop with a relaxed grip, and not near as taxing. The blade feels much more alive with a relaxed grip, and you get instant feedback when your shot hits or misses. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2022 at 12:18pm
i have also gone down the rabbit hole of grip again

from the folks I've asked about the fh, on the back swing some say they break their wrists (extension is the term from that pic) while others so they supinate the forearm... i tend to naturally have a bh bias grip and i am able to have my pointer finger flush on the bh rubber but if i try a more neutral grip, my pointer finger has a slight gap at the base

overall as long as i hold the racket loosely i can perform ok regardless but it is just perplexing that such minor details can have a big affect on the game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TwiddleDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 12:47am
In the 40 plus years that I have been playing, I experimented with many grip changes. I finally settled on holding the paddle with my index finger flat, and my thumb laying on it's side, pointed slightly up, so that I can keep pressure on both sides of the blade, but not so hard that I can't feel the ball. I keep the edge of the blade aligned with the top edge of my forearm, and let my wrist drop to it's natural position. I cannot keep my index finger at 90 degrees, but it is very close to that. I don't raise up my thumb except to banana flip. I tried raising my thumb up to backhand block loops with more force, but sometimes I would forget to bring it back down when transitioning to forehand, so I had to give that up. I think many players believe that changing your grip is an easy fix to a technique problem. I know that I did. But usually, every time that I changed my grip, I fixed one problem but created another. The first thing I look at when I see a player, is their grip. That is the first clue about their where their strengths and weaknesses are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slowhand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 1:36am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Messing with your grip can quickly send you into the ninth circle of table tennis hell.
This. Just don't do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 3:34am
   THANKS TO GOD.
Years ago, I developed a grip somewhat different from what you can see in many instructive Books.. . It all came to me from my inner voice and personal playing experience. As a happy result, my topspin game became a Big Cannon, a lot of spin and speed.

Be happiy.

https://clck.ru/goeCD


Edited by igorponger - 05/06/2022 at 4:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fluff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 11:43am
I changed my grip earlier this year from a deep grip that was hurting my wrist to a more natural grip. Since I have a wrist cyst, as soon as I was pressing the bat with my thumb it started hurting and my wrist movement range would be greatly reduced.

So I moved to a shallow grip, and my game has been getting much better with only putting my thumb on the blade's thumb rest and index finger on the backhand rubber roughly horizontal.

And once my blade in hand completely forgetting about grip and only focusing on my feet and weight transfer. The blade moves a bit and then lies naturally in my hand after a few loops.




Edited by Fluff - 05/06/2022 at 11:55am
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kindof99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Fluff Fluff wrote:

I changed my grip earlier this year from a deep grip that was hurting my wrist to a more natural grip. Now it might be because I was pressing my thumb on the rubber (which I heard was a bad thing) but since I have a wrist cyst, as soon as I was pressing the bat too hard it started hurting and my wrist movement range would be greatly reduced.

So I moved to a shallow grip, and my game has been getting much better with only putting my thumb on the blade's thumb rest and index finger on the backhand rubber roughly horizontal.

And once my blade in hand completely forgetting about grip and only focusing on my feet and weight transfer. The blade moves a bit and then lies naturally in my hand after a few loops.


FZD put his thumb on the rubber and ML put his on the wood like you.
Hard to say which is better. But more people are using fzd’s way for better backhand receive and transition. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fluff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 12:01pm
True, I switched because it was hurting for me but other people find it comfortable.
I think the takeaway is once in match play do not think too hard about your grip or your footwork and tactics will suffer from it
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