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Focus on spin production

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DonnOlsen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/08/2021 at 8:06am
Hi,

This topic is susceptible to excessive decomposition in analysis.  Furthermore, the ever-infuriating incompetent prevailing table tennis vocabulary insinuates itself here.

The force of pragmatism demands acknowledging the wisdom and deep understandings imbedded in the best application of the Chinese national coaching system.  With that as a backdrop: As to an overall attribute to characterize stroke play within the expressions from the Chinese, the very consistently used term is translated as "explosiveness."

Explosiveness is any extremely rapid chain of reaction that releases force.

One of the great contributors to table tennis insight in this era (and one of my primary mentors) is Michel Gadal.  As I have often found, Michel, better than anyone else, presents a valuable perspective with superior broad-based applicability.  Following him: Using the basic structure of the relevant body parts as reference points (fingers, hands, hand-wrist axis, forearm, etc.) for stroke expression, the player uses the appropriate composite of parts based on the specific circumstance the player is addressing.  In general, the more time available within the circumstance, the more parts are employed to form the stroke mechanism.

This view is then coupled with the notion of explosiveness.  Explosiveness is applied to the set of parts selected by the player for each stroke mechanism expression.

Very high on the list of qualities that distinguish standards of play is the quality of shots produced.  Two attributes stand out in the definition of quality in this context; ball speed and ball spin, both represented in quantifiable ways.  In all the cases in which the player is the source of these two influences on the ball, racket speed is the means to the upper scale.  The way to attain the higher echelons of racket speed is explosiveness.

Thanks.


Edited by DonnOlsen - 04/08/2021 at 8:07am
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maur1010 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maur1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/10/2021 at 4:50pm
Take a look at any ma longs video of topspin against backspin in slow motion.
It is clear to me that the body starts to rise as the bat is still going back in the take back.
In ma longs topspin against block there is a little gap of the body coming forward before the bat.
To actually have the body and the arm in total sync requires you to use tension in your arm which is opposite to Chinese technique. It looks stiff and not fluid.
Shadow swing with no lag and shadow swing with a small lag and you can see what i am talking about.



Edited by maur1010 - 04/10/2021 at 4:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2021 at 5:17am
Originally posted by maur1010 maur1010 wrote:

Take a look at any ma longs video of topspin against backspin in slow motion.
It is clear to me that the body starts to rise as the bat is still going back in the take back.
In ma longs topspin against block there is a little gap of the body coming forward before the bat.
To actually have the body and the arm in total sync requires you to use tension in your arm which is opposite to Chinese technique. It looks stiff and not fluid.
Shadow swing with no lag and shadow swing with a small lag and you can see what i am talking about.


It is true that there is a subsequential acceleration process (body accelerates first, then upper arm, lower arm and then wrist/pronation), to achieve max racket speed at contact. It's because these elements take  different amounts of time to achieve max speed. But it should be relaxed and natural, any excessive lag in the arm (especially when done intentionally) is basically going to emphasize arm power over the legs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maur1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2021 at 5:12pm
But it should be relaxed and natural, any excessive lag in the arm (especially when done intentionally) is basically going to emphasize arm power over the legs.

Again I totally disagree with you. Look at the pendulum serve for example. Many pros on the ball toss going up move the bat arm forward. This is done intentionally. This action delays the backswing as much as possible till the ball  is dropping and allows the process of what Brett Clark calls anti drift to occur. The bat is still going back before the whip as the body is going forward.

The result is a fast whip action and a better quality serve.

Adding a component of anti drift to normal shots actually allows the transfer of leg power to increase arm speed totally effortlessly. Pros are starting to do this in serves. I predict over time more pros will increase the amount of anti drift into normal shots.

I actually watched a player in the top 10 in Australia intentionally try to add more anti drift to his backhand and forehand in training. The extra spin and power was easy to see.

I am actually having weekly training with Brett Clark. We are working on adding a component of anti drift to my shots. Its amazing how powerful this concept is. Cutting edge stuff.



Edited by maur1010 - 04/11/2021 at 5:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/11/2021 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by maur1010 maur1010 wrote:

But it should be relaxed and natural, any excessive lag in the arm (especially when done intentionally) is basically going to emphasize arm power over the legs.

Again I totally disagree with you. Look at the pendulum serve for example. Many pros on the ball toss going up move the bat arm forward. This is done intentionally. This action delays the backswing as much as possible till the ball  is dropping and allows the process of what Brett Clark calls anti drift to occur. The bat is still going back before the whip as the body is going forward.

The result is a fast whip action and a better quality serve.

Adding a component of anti drift to normal shots actually allows the transfer of leg power to increase arm speed totally effortlessly. Pros are starting to do this in serves. I predict over time more pros will increase the amount of anti drift into normal shots.

I actually watched a player in the top 10 in Australia intentionally try to add more anti drift to his backhand and forehand in training. The extra spin and power was easy to see.

I am actually having weekly training with Brett Clark. We are working on adding a component of anti drift to my shots. Its amazing how powerful this concept is. Cutting edge stuff.


Hmm interesting concept. I'm gonna try it out, thanks for sharing!
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Butterfly Viscaria

FH: Dignics 09c
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