Edited by racquetsforsale - 02/22/2022 at 9:25pm

     GIVE UP ALL THE LOOPS . LEARN FORHAND DRIVES INSTEAD.   

Japanese coach gave a new destroyer to ITO Mima hands, that is to drive the ball rather than looping.
DRIVING the ball with a racket open face. This is the clue to Mima's super_power.

Be happy.

PS// Go and consult from Youtube video of Mima's training behind closed doors.

1:The swing path of  your racket combines all the movement of your leg, body, elbow, arms, wrist, finger, blade....

Edited by Robin.w - 04/11/2021 at 11:42pm

The first swing path shows the traditional way and the second one shows the new hitting through technique to launch  a explosive forward speedy topspin .


Edited by Robin.w - 04/11/2021 at 5:06pm

when coach meng hits the ball for real his stroke is normal and stable. When he shadow strokes he demonstrates something   like your theory his japanese mate is the same. He is unfortunately one of those coaches who has not considered that he is trying to teach something that he himself does not do in practice.
its a pity because though his heart is in the right place his classes lead people like Blahness who dont have the habit of critically analysing incoming advice right up the garden path into error. Moral:: no matter who advises you, dont forget to use your own ability to think for yourself.
here is a real coach. no bs no diagrams. just commonsense

chinese olympic coach


i played with inverted from 1960' to 1977- lp and tackiness up to 1979 then sp thereafter
some tt history:-
the modern style of playing with inverted began with hasegawa(1967) bengtssen (1971) when the heavier topspin briefly overcame the chinese sp hitting style of zhuang de dong. In 1977 the chinese recovered their dominance using lp play and looping play to be interrupted by the swedes later on.
the first high performance inverted rubbers were sriver, super sriver and mark v which arrived about 1971- 72
btw
I can recall doing that same practice that ML demonstrates 4 or 5 times a week with my practice partners in the early 70's. I would have been using mark v 2mm. There was no internet so we learnt the techniques from studying motion analysis photos from butterfly report. In those days we were loop crazy even more than today, partly because at the the time we saw the loop as something that overturned china dominance. We loved the round the net play of Jonyer and Gergely. However the the play of today shows that the fundamentals of tt tactics from china in the 60's - close to the table early striking have reasserted themselves in the advanced topspin of the 21st century

we are starting to repeat ourselves.
good luck in yr career


Edited by pingpongpaddy - 04/11/2021 at 9:11am

blahness wrote: Umm, all of the super high level players I've played with teaches the wrapping of the ball. Even higher level players like Timo Boll, coach Meng from WRM table tennis channel (ex table tennis champion from China). I'm not sure how high level of a player you can be without understanding the wrapping of the ball.  As you can see from the slowmo of Ma Long's loop, he closes the racket angle at contact.

you can refer to high level players all you want. In the end its what they do that counts not what they say. In watching yr video of ML i see him executing a quality closed racket contact without changing the angle during the contact phase.
its worth remembering that not every high level player is also a high level analyst of tt technique whether his own or other peoples. Its worth remembering that the words you read or listen to may have been misinterpreted by you. On the other hand the video of ML represents the truth

i am 72 i am no superstar, but back in the days before computer rankings I beat my national ranked no 23. During my career I have had the opportunity to converse with all kinds and levels of players and coaches and the consensus is that the stability of the wrist at the contact phase is vital otherwise errors result. Thus if the arm is swinging through contact at 46 degrees then the whippyness of the wrist should not be changed to 48 degrees. rather it should also be brushing at 46 degrees. Indeed I remember refusing to coach a promising junior because he had similar ideas to you. All the coaches agreed that he had a "wobble" in his stroke at vital moments causing errors but he wouldnt listen to us, so, in spite of his woderful bh he did not progress


i watched the video . no wrap. no wobble. Just ML with his very simple excellent no frills technique with racket at same angle through stroke



Edited by pingpongpaddy - 04/11/2021 at 6:09am

@blahness
again I would suggest you ask yourself how the ball can be affected by the stroke when not in contact!

I wonder if the Flat Earth Society is looking for members?

But seriously look no further than these ideas of yours for lack of progress in your game.
Once you start to smell the coffee things will get better

@blahness
you need to observe just the millisecond of actual contact to get whats really going on.
Its a fundamental of good stroking that the racket angle should be constant through contact. Otherwise errors would result.
The "wraparound" exhibited in yr Ma Long example is a function of Ma Long 's follow through which enables him to have good transition (to balance and readiness) by pulling the racket towards his body by folding his elbow. Also in this case the impression of "Wraparound" is exaggerated by his "hooking" the stroke to send the ball wider to the fh. But again this "Hook" does not involve changing the contact angle during the stroke it just means setting the angle before contact.

The expert tend to start from the lower position with a lower hand because they have a faster swing speed ( arm, body and leg combined). So when contacting the ball, the racket goes a lot more higher than amature players. Without that speed, most ball will go far out of the table.  

Edited by Robin.w - 04/04/2021 at 10:14pm

Looking at the graph, I can see that Singapore novices are really good. I've played only at six clubs, including one in Bonn and one in Hong Kong and the novices have much weirder moves. I consider myself "intermediate" and work on improving my counterhit mechanics 2h/week for months and maybe I achieved the trajectory of the Singapore novice.

I may never be able to get the expert trajectory, but from what I see in the graph, all that the "novice" needs is judge the incoming ball better, followed by more weight transfer and a longer follow-up. Maybe better footwork helps by having the right foot a bit more behind.

As for wrap-around, I should try to close the angle during the shot and see what happens. It may improve my shot as in my videos it appears that my paddle's angle is opening slightly and this is definitely bad.

kindof99 wrote: It is hard to believe in this wrapping technique until you try it. It seems that it is hard to do it, but that is how a lot of high ranking player and professional players are doing it.  And still, a decent forehand drive is required for this wrapping (drive loop) technique. I believe that most people do not have a proper forehand drive to support this technique.  If you forehand drive with a  relatively closed paddle, it is impossible to hit loop like this.

It is hard to believe in this wrapping technique until you try it. It seems that it is hard to do it, but that is how a lot of high ranking player and professional players are doing it. 

https://youtu.be/A9sph_LAb_I

I've watched the Ma Long in slow-mo of the slow-mo, and to me it doesn't look like he wraps around when hitting the ball, but more on the follow through. His whole stroke is an arcing motion from beginning to end on that particular point. Maybe in an effort to close down over the incoming top spin, and due to the speed he has to do both changes at the same time. I don't notice this kind of motion/action when the incoming ball has back spin. 

Just to contribute another slow-mo video, Ma long does the wrap around loop here at 10s.