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ITTF Propositions & Nominations

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2021 at 8:06am
Originally posted by Ergosquare Ergosquare wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by Ergosquare Ergosquare wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades

I already said why not. They would have to ban all existing blades! (otherwise it wouldn't be effective)
Balls and rubbers are products, which get replaced frequently one way or the other.
Some pips were banned, I didn't like that either, but OK, more people benefited than suffered.
Celluloid balls got replaced by plastic balls, I didn't like that either like a big share of all players, but there were reasons for that change at least.
No one suffers if a net gets replaced.
Balls, tables, nets in different clubs/cities/countries should be as close together as possible anyway so that almost everyone plays under similar circumstances.
If blades would have to be approved extremely many people would suffer, but of course unfortunately there is a little group that benefits ... the big TT companies.

That is incorrect. They do not need to ban all the blades now. Please check the older rubbers like Mark V and Sriver. They do not have the serial number in the LARC but they are still legal. Same can happen with the blades.


This comparison seems a bit flawed to me because something like self-made rubbers doesn't exist.

What is the idea?

Case 1: all existing (non-marked) blades are allowed to use further on infinetely and they even are available for purchase.
Then why introduce the approval in the first place?

Case 2: all existing (non-marked) blades are allowed to use further on infinetely but new blades have to have the mark of approval.
In that case my scenario comes back in play: I get to a tournament with a blade that I built myself just after blade approval got introduced and my opponent calls the referree because of my blade, but I will just say that I have played with this blade for over 15 years and he would have no proof that this is false.
Now you might say "OK, they only have to ban customized blades from blade manufactures and normal blades like e.g. a Butterfly TB ALC are allowed to use further on", but how to identify a customized blade? Good wood workers will be able to let a customized blade look exactly like a Butterfly TB ALC and no one will be able to tell that it is not a TB ALC.

Case 3: all (non-marked) blades are allowed to use for a certain amount of years but become forbidden after that.
The fact that it happens is the problem, not when it will happen

I can't imagine another case that would make sense.

Please tell if I have made an error in thinking.

Yes you have and it is very far from what i was trying to say. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ergosquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2021 at 8:53am
Then please enlighten me what my error was.

Edit: I checked the LARC. Yes there are rubbers like MARK V which existed before serial numbers became introduced. But they always had the ittf symbol as mark of approval on them, correct? Current blades don't have that. So how should blades be identified as legal for competition in your scenario?

I hope I understood correctly that you were trying to say that all current existing blades would be allowed to use for a certain number of years. All right, I'll accept that. But what comes after that point? Or how would the future look like in your mind? That's why I offered 3 scenarios to choose from.


Edited by Ergosquare - 10/12/2021 at 9:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2021 at 8:59am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Donn, Tibhar Grass is green. It makes sense.

Well, that is why we have people like you on the Forum, to make sense of the sense for those in need.

Any suggested new colors for Hurricane and Dignics?

Thanks.

No. 
But I bet I could come up with a color for Donic bluestorm or Andro rasanter series...

To the question of blades-I have no doubt there are those who would like the ITTF to certify blades, but I do hope for some degree of sanity. As an EJ you think I would want to buy more blades, but to outlaw all the current blades seems insane-even beyond the insanity I expect from the ITTF. Which I guess means it is a sure thing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/12/2021 at 9:41am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades and yes this will be happening soon. 

They are already regulating blades in a sense - by limiting % of non-wood materials etc., having rules about uniformity and what not. 

And as far as impact it (if it ever happens) will have on me - pretty much zero. I played a bunch of USATT tournaments, including US Open - no one ever checked my paddle (all legal rubbers/blades). I don't expect it to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/2021 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades and yes this will be happening soon. 

They are already regulating blades in a sense - by limiting % of non-wood materials etc., having rules about uniformity and what not. 

And as far as impact it (if it ever happens) will have on me - pretty much zero. I played a bunch of USATT tournaments, including US Open - no one ever checked my paddle (all legal rubbers/blades). I don't expect it to change.

This is because the full implementations of the blade control is not yet fully implemented. If the USATT uses the rubber rulings and regulations now, what do you think will happen if USATT implements that rule too when ITTF starts obliging TT associations to follow suit.

I am more concerned about the impact of that rule to the blade market in general and no I do not support that future rule because independent blade makers will be greatly affected. Imagine the rubber registration for having an ITTF stamp is about 2-3k USD per year if I am not mistaken and it will be implemented to the blades also? Not only it will drive the blade prices up but also possible for TT companies to have fewer blades for sale for not having ITTF approval on their blades. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/2021 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Ergosquare Ergosquare wrote:

Then please enlighten me what my error was.

Edit: I checked the LARC. Yes there are rubbers like MARK V which existed before serial numbers became introduced. But they always had the ittf symbol as mark of approval on them, correct? Current blades don't have that. So how should blades be identified as legal for competition in your scenario?

I hope I understood correctly that you were trying to say that all current existing blades would be allowed to use for a certain number of years. All right, I'll accept that. But what comes after that point? Or how would the future look like in your mind? That's why I offered 3 scenarios to choose from.

It is not only just the ITTF symbol that makes Mark V legal even before the serial numbers existed. It is the model of the Yasaka rubber which is MARK V that is registered as an authorized racket covering. When a blade will undergo authorizations in the future, are you saying just because for example a Butterfly TB ALC is registered as an authorized blade but with no ITTF symbol it is an illegal blade because it was produced before the ITTF regulations will take effect? Unless ITTF will oblige to have blades with ITTF logos only after the regulation starts, then older blades with no ITTF will be illegal is illogical since the brand and model of the blade has already been authorized.

By the way, ITTF sets a time on when to implement a ruling. I do not get your logic about your example  of a blade you are using deeming illegal when in a theoretical situation ITTF will clearly announce the date of implementation. Are you saying when you ITTF will set a date of the blade change, you will not prepare and still use your old blade even if that days falls on your tournament day? 
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 1:37am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Claudia Herwig, oen of the ITTF commitee responded in my email to her about this. She said that if ITTF can regulate balls, nets, tables and rubbers, why not blades and yes this will be happening soon.

And shoes. In 2009, Sharara touched on the idea of authorizing blades and shoes in the future.

https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=109168#p109168
https://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=104341#p104341
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+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2021 at 1:55am
Take off the rubber, please...

Racket blades are going to be examined visually by umpire. At the end of last game, Umpire has to remove rubber away to see if the blade is OK.

Ittf "marker" on the blade is a pure fib, no such proposition was ever submitted for Ittf consideration.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ergosquare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2021 at 7:06am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

By the way, ITTF sets a time on when to implement a ruling. I do not get your logic about your example  of a blade you are using deeming illegal when in a theoretical situation ITTF will clearly announce the date of implementation. Are you saying when you ITTF will set a date of the blade change, you will not prepare and still use your old blade even if that days falls on your tournament day? 


I wasn't talking about myself, anyone could do that but it doesn't matter.
There I tried to prove that custom blades would be required to become forbidden because I thought you were saying it would be a possibility even custom blades would stay legal to use if they were built before a certain date. But now I got what you meant.

Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

When a blade will undergo authorizations in the future, are you saying just because for example a Butterfly TB ALC is registered as an authorized blade but with no ITTF symbol it is an illegal blade because it was produced before the ITTF regulations will take effect? Unless ITTF will oblige to have blades with ITTF logos only after the regulation starts, then older blades with no ITTF will be illegal is illogical since the brand and model of the blade has already been authorized.

I meant it would be not that hard to create a custom blade that looks exactly like a TB ALC - by using the handle and the lens of an original and no one would be able to tell that it is not an original TB ALC.
TB ALC may have been a bad example as there are models much easier to let custom blades look like them.
(Even if new blades would be required to have for example a kind of ittf stamp on the top ply it would be possible to create custom blades that have that feature.)
It may not be worth the effort for a lot of players players but at least it would be feasable for most people to find a custom blade builder who does this service and for sure many pro players would do it because they are so used to their custom blades (at least those who use custom blades).

For that matter i repeat my question. How to (securely) identify a blade model?
This is an issue in contrast to rubbers because there are no custom made rubbers and for example there's no way to turn an old banned pips rubber into an approved rubber.
So in a nutshell - why only allow certain blade models if there's no way of verifying that the actual blades players use in tournaments are one of those allowed models.


Edited by Ergosquare - 10/19/2021 at 7:36am
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