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Long Pips vs Antispin

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mjamja View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/06/2021 at 11:33am
What are the advantages and disadvantages of choosing between LP and Anti for a closer to table blocking game?   In either case Fh will be inverted and blocking/hitting will be dominate strokes on both wings.

Mark - Who has finally given up on learning how to loop
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obesechopper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2021 at 12:43pm
Pips can have more 'random/accidental' spin (meaning both players have to inspect the return better), but are harder to keep balls short with. Quicker to hit with. Faster returns with less effort. 

Anti-spin (frictionless) get more passive reversal, along with dampening sponges, are easier to control - but generally less difficult for the opponent to play against. Usually require more forward force to get a speedy ball, so if you've got weak upper arms... this might tire you out, unless you prefer slower balls. They need less body absorption to block big hits. Whereas an LP might send the ball off the table. Downside is, again, returns can be TOO slow!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2021 at 1:31pm
THE "TOXIC RUBBERS". WHAT IS IT ?

The recent decision by ITTF to allow a massive release of rubbers of 4 more colours onto market should be a very challenging experience. It is an untrotten path so far, and some mishaps and failures may well occur there. However, we must go on improving towards the best reasonable colour scheme. The proposed restriction of colour selection for the "toxic" rubbers of LP and ANTI types should make a lot for the good of the sport, we believe strongly.
    
Most asked question about the Project::
Q. - How do you construe the term of "toxic rubber"?
A. - The one that is able to produce erratical and/or abnormal ball bounce (= spin reversal).
The LP and Anti frictionless rubbers are the most typical representatives for toxic covering materials.

Be happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2021 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of choosing between LP and Anti for a closer to table blocking game?   In either case Fh will be inverted and blocking/hitting will be dominate strokes on both wings.

Mark - Who has finally given up on learning how to loop

If you insist on going to the Dark Side, then I'd suggest long or medium pips. The range of options is almost surely greater with long pips and I believe the ability to vary the spin will be greater with a pips out rubber than a smooth one - this is especially likely to be true if you include the use of pips with sponge rubber.

All that said, you should try a sheet of anti-spin just to see how it feels.

Also, I'd seriously consider going with a sponged short pips for your backhand and not going for a "Dark Side" rubber. I think the adjustment would be easier for you. 
Jay Turberville
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allencorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2021 at 12:00am
I used anti for years and recently experimented with long pips. I find them vastly different. Anti is highly predictable, insensitive to spin (obviously), and you can hit or chop with it, but produce very little spin. Anti requires more practice, in my opinion, as it can be unpredictable, for both you and your opponent if you don't practice a lot with it. There are also so many varieties of both (LP or anti), with varying degrees of effect. An EJ nightmare.

I suggest getting a few cheap sheets of each and try 'em out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2021 at 5:39am
Anti is the rarest rubber choice so nobody is used to playing against it.  LPs are common as dirt by comparison.  Of course there may be good reasons why anti is used so seldom.  

A medium pip on the longer side might be interesting.  You can block and get some reversal, but also hit and roll backspin.  MP can be very tough to play against.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2021 at 8:30am
Originally posted by allencorn allencorn wrote:

I used anti for years and recently experimented with long pips. I find them vastly different. Anti is highly predictable, insensitive to spin (obviously), and you can hit or chop with it, but produce very little spin. Anti requires more practice, in my opinion, as it can be unpredictable, for both you and your opponent if you don't practice a lot with it. There are also so many varieties of both (LP or anti), with varying degrees of effect. An EJ nightmare.

I suggest getting a few cheap sheets of each and try 'em out.

I have done the opposite and used LP extensively. I have tried anti, but found it very different. The ONLY thing I could do with anti is to drop the ball into the net, except for rare times I hit it long. 

Re: medium pips may be easier for the OP (who does NOT return my texts btw) coming from SP. The only thing harder than playing against medium pips is LEARNING to play with them. Takes a lot of practice time which I think the OP has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allencorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2021 at 1:10am
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

Originally posted by allencorn allencorn wrote:

I used anti for years and recently experimented with long pips. I find them vastly different. Anti is highly predictable, insensitive to spin (obviously), and you can hit or chop with it, but produce very little spin. Anti requires more practice, in my opinion, as it can be unpredictable, for both you and your opponent if you don't practice a lot with it. There are also so many varieties of both (LP or anti), with varying degrees of effect. An EJ nightmare.

I suggest getting a few cheap sheets of each and try 'em out.

I have done the opposite and used LP extensively. I have tried anti, but found it very different. The ONLY thing I could do with anti is to drop the ball into the net, except for rare times I hit it long. 

Re: medium pips may be easier for the OP (who does NOT return my texts btw) coming from SP. The only thing harder than playing against medium pips is LEARNING to play with them. Takes a lot of practice time which I think the OP has.

There are so many kinds of anti, and they all play differently. There are really dead antis, hard antis, somewhat dead and soft antis (what I play with), and then the horrid frictionless stuff. It is tough to choose or figure out what works best, or what you want to learn to play with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2021 at 1:42am
Decided to just go with LP.  Have ordered some Friendship(729)  755 LP in 0.8mm sponge.  Plan is to play pretty defensive on Bh with LP with some attacks against weaker underspin (slow and higher balls).  Staying close to table and not retreating to chop but using chop block at table to get more underspin when I can.

On Fh I am switching from Big Dipper (tacky Chinese hybrid) to  Tenergy 25 in 2.1 mm sponge.  Will push against most underspin.  On almost any topspin to Fh I will smash with idea to end point at that moment with a winner or a miss.  I expect games and matches to be over pretty quickly one way or another.

I hope to get my rating down to 1499 before next years US Nationals so I get a chance to improve on my 2010 US Open U1500 2nd place finish.  Getting  down there will be easy.  Getting back up to the 1900 level needed to win the U1500 will not be so easy.  

My real goal is bronze medal in the O70 in 2024.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/09/2021 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Decided to just go with LP.  Have ordered some Friendship(729)  755 LP in 0.8mm sponge.  Plan is to play pretty defensive on Bh with LP with some attacks against weaker underspin (slow and higher balls).  Staying close to table and not retreating to chop but using chop block at table to get more underspin when I can.

On Fh I am switching from Big Dipper (tacky Chinese hybrid) to  Tenergy 25 in 2.1 mm sponge.  Will push against most underspin.  On almost any topspin to Fh I will smash with idea to end point at that moment with a winner or a miss.  I expect games and matches to be over pretty quickly one way or another.

I hope to get my rating down to 1499 before next years US Nationals so I get a chance to improve on my 2010 US Open U1500 2nd place finish.  Getting  down there will be easy.  Getting back up to the 1900 level needed to win the U1500 will not be so easy.  

My real goal is bronze medal in the O70 in 2024.

Mark
I know most players who play with chop block use LP ox, may be you should use 'block' and hit aginst topspin. Also, I find it is harder for shakehand to 'hard push'  (拱) underspin. Now, I just push underspin instead. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2021 at 9:57am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Anti is the rarest rubber choice so nobody is used to playing against it.  LPs are common as dirt by comparison.  Of course there may be good reasons why anti is used so seldom.  

A medium pip on the longer side might be interesting.  You can block and get some reversal, but also hit and roll backspin.  MP can be very tough to play against.  


You can do both of these things with OX long pips very easily. The most important thing when choosing a LP in 2021 is that you can attack well with it, because the loss of spin with the larger ball means you're going to draw fewer errors purely through spin reversal and "deception".
Nittaku Goriki
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2021 at 4:32pm
I am about to give Anti (Super Stop) a try, as my index finger does not like the thin no-sponge LPs base. And Super Stop is the only Anti I could find with weight about the same as an OX LP (I am aware that the OP is not concerned about weight).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pitigoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2021 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by PushSlicer PushSlicer wrote:

Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

I am about to give Anti (Super Stop) a try, as my index finger does not like the thin no-sponge LPs base. And Super Stop is the only Anti I could find with weight about the same as an OX LP (I am aware that the OP is not concerned about weight).


I perfectly understand & wish you the best with your ECing & try anti or all kinds of rubbers and blades but it seems you are switching from LP to Anti for the wrong reason because per rules special implements (such as any padding or cork etc) can be added at the point where your fingers meet the racket or you can even cut off the LP rubber below your (index) finger,  I think    


.................. part of post deleted ...



So I could legally glue another rubber on top of the LP, on the part of rubber where there are no pips? This would cover the label of the rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2021 at 5:15pm
@PushSlicer: are you suggesting people should cheat and play with not approved rubbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2021 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by pitigoi pitigoi wrote:

 

So I could legally glue another rubber on top of the LP, on the part of rubber where there are no pips? This would cover the label of the rubber.


3.2.1.3 Any ordinary pimpled rubber or sandwich rubber covering the racket shall be currently authorised by the ITTF and shall be attached to the blade so that the ITTF logo, the ITTF number (when present), the supplier and brand names are clearly visible nearest the handle.

Only if the above conditions are met. Even then, I'd probably not mount the extra padding on top of the covering, but directly to bare wood. My concern would be an umpire or the tournament referee deciding that you have two coverings on one side. Of course, you could always check with the tournament referee before playing to verify his or her interpretation of the rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/10/2021 at 5:29pm
Following on with more info:

2.4.4 The covering material shall extend up to but not beyond the limits of the blade, except that the part nearest the handle and gripped by the fingers may be left uncovered or covered with any material.

So the rule says "any material". That would include part of an unused sheet of rubber IMO. But as I assumed earlier, the material is attached directly to the blade. The rule doesn't say that you can apply "any material" on top of a portion of the label of the covering. Of course, it doesn't explicitly say you can't either. There's some ambiguity here. Where there's ambiguity, best to check with the tournament referee.



Edited by wturber - 09/10/2021 at 5:29pm
Jay Turberville
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