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Two table tennis forehands only?

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DonnOlsen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/13/2021 at 10:18am
Hi,

An interesting segment on the Tennis Channel highlighted the state and development of an 11 year old tennis player.  His distinction is that he only plays forehands, no backhands.  This is accomplished by playing both righthanded and lefthanded forehands, depending on circumstance.

One of the interesting points was the initial approach to his development of promoting both forehands and backhands on both sides.  This proved to be too much as they are now settled on an exclusive forehand game.  This change in approach is understandable, for by including backhands he then must divide his training efforts to four structural points.  This dilution resulted in subpar developmental rates for all the strokes.

His competition performance in his age group is very good. 

This brings to mind a couple of scenarios pertinent to table tennis.  One is whether or not this forehand-only model would be successful in our sport.  There seems not one at a high level has deployed it, so that is some evidence.  From a technical perspective, it seems highly unlikely due to the speed of the game of table tennis.  When a fast ball directly approaches the body, the time frame for responsiveness is very short.  The only option is a backhand, for the ball-to-body relationship is not viable for a forehand execution.  In tennis, there is time.

Because of our significant rubber category differences, another ancillary topic introduced is the viability of a well-rounded style of play being developed with two distinct rubber types (such as spinny inverted and short pips) functioning at a high level on both forehand and backhand sides with both rubber types.  An example would be Falck "flipping" his racket and playing effective offense and defense with either of the two rubbers on both sides.

The limitation to this flipping as described above is the same limitation encountered by the coaches of the 11 year old tennis player.  To divide the training expenditure into four spaces is too expensive, resulting in diminished competencies among the four structures.

Our sport of table tennis certainly has examples of selective flipping between rubber types.  Very predominantly, this occurs in defensive and passive executions, although at the higher levels of the sport this seems to not be prevalent for the same training expenditure limitation that, in the judgment of the coaches and players as the evidence available, is too costly. 

One example of this flipping at a high level is the context of overcoming a significant limitation in the rubber's capability.  Chen Weixing plays long pips on his backhand, but will flip to his inverted to attack with his backhand selectively.  He does not, however, chop with his inverted on his backhand.

Thanks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 10:59am
I can't see see an all forehands game ever happening in TT, mainly because the BH offers so many advantages over the FH, especially in over the table play. 

What I can see happening is coaches developing more BH heavy players like Darko Jorgic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackCat510 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I can't see see an all forehands game ever happening in TT, mainly because the BH offers so many advantages over the FH, especially in over the table play. 

What I can see happening is coaches developing more BH heavy players like Darko Jorgic.

I think you would be correct in saying that an *only* forehand style is almost impossible now, but is that not what Japanese penholders are (with only 1 one rubber, playing everything, including backhand with their forehand). Ryu Seung Min, a JPen player, won the 2004 Olympic Singles Gold with that style.  

Are you referring to just shake hand?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 1:46pm
Close to the table recovery lfh to rfh and back might be a limitation factor but add 2 bh to the 2 fh and problem solved!

I played left handed for a while when I had a frozen shoulder for a few months and the footwork gets all mangled. We get used to it in practice when we know where the ball is coming but in matches it was a nightmare. Maybe with time people can adjust on the fly with the switching from left to right handed play within any given point. I could not but not enough practice might be the cause.

A 2 FH player might be highly spectacular to watch, that's for sure. I do hope it's possible and that somebody will take the risk to go for it. It will take a lot for that person to make it to the top though and my question is how many players able to make it will take that risk? how many coaches will risk their reputation to train a player that way?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I can't see see an all forehands game ever happening in TT, mainly because the BH offers so many advantages over the FH, especially in over the table play. 

What I can see happening is coaches developing more BH heavy players like Darko Jorgic.

You make some excellent observations.  

With the ball so fast now, you see a trend in positioning relative to the table that reflects the comparative difficulty of moving very much in the time available.  The best example of this that comes to mind is Wang Manyu.  Look at her positioning at serve return.

Your comment concerning backhand oriented players is also insightful.  With the equipment and technique advancements, backhands can be scary powerful now so the positioning in support of the backhand is less a depreciation than in other eras.

Perhaps your best thought is your comment on over-the-table play.  Decided advantage with the backhand there, which would be lost with the two forehands' model.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Close to the table recovery lfh to rfh and back might be a limitation factor but add 2 bh to the 2 fh and problem solved!

I played left handed for a while when I had a frozen shoulder for a few months and the footwork gets all mangled. We get used to it in practice when we know where the ball is coming but in matches it was a nightmare. Maybe with time people can adjust on the fly with the switching from left to right handed play within any given point. I could not but not enough practice might be the cause.

A 2 FH player might be highly spectacular to watch, that's for sure. I do hope it's possible and that somebody will take the risk to go for it. It will take a lot for that person to make it to the top though and my question is how many players able to make it will take that risk? how many coaches will risk their reputation to train a player that way?

Very good!  Golf has Bryson DeChambeau, tennis has this 11 year old two forehander, but table tennis?

Stretching this a little, one could argue Ito stands distinctively.  For me, the most intriguing in all of the sport is Truls Moregard.  It will be most interesting to watch him throughout his career.  He, unlike others, is maintaining strong ties to Sweden.  It is my understanding a major motivation for this is his interest in an environment of intense and dedicated training that is available in his home country and not assured nor equal in other locales.  He has his eyes set on the stars above.

Thanks.
"Pierre Curie's greatest discovery was Marie Sklodowski." Frederick Soddy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by BlackCat510 BlackCat510 wrote:

Originally posted by Simon_plays Simon_plays wrote:

I can't see see an all forehands game ever happening in TT, mainly because the BH offers so many advantages over the FH, especially in over the table play. 

What I can see happening is coaches developing more BH heavy players like Darko Jorgic.

I think you would be correct in saying that an *only* forehand style is almost impossible now, but is that not what Japanese penholders are (with only 1 one rubber, playing everything, including backhand with their forehand). Ryu Seung Min, a JPen player, won the 2004 Olympic Singles Gold with that style.  

Are you referring to just shake hand?

Well, specifically for this discussion, we are ruminating on the prospects of playing table tennis with both the right hand and the left hand in a balanced structure only executing forehand strokes.  Ryu Seung Min played only with his right hand.

That said:  I have often commented that Ryu was a very special player.  If he had had the direction to cultivate a quality backhand on the standard that was available in his era, I think he would have run away with the sport.  He was spectacular! even in the context of the severe backhand limitation.

Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/13/2021 at 11:27pm
There was a woman tennis player back in the 1950's, Beverly Baker Fleitz, who was ambidextrous and played with two forehands. She reached the finals of Wimbledon in 1955, and was ranked as high as #3 in the world. Tennis coach Vic Braden related a story about a player who, after losing in straight sets, bemoaned the fact that she was the fastest player he had ever seen, he could never get to her backhand. He apparently never noticed that she didn't have a backhand.

Table tennis, I don't see it happening. Imagine FZD winding up for a BH over the table, just watching which hand you are holding the racket in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loop_boom_smash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2021 at 1:02am
I think there had been quite a few baseball players who were ambidextrous but I am not aware of any NFL  QB.  There may be in other racket sports as well. There may be many soccer (strikers) but do not know who were the best

Also


It says Sachin Tendulkar plays table tennis both left & right handed.

I can drive both on left & right side of the road & have even driven a left hand drive vehicle on the left side of the road 100s of times......even stick shift WinkWink  (Eric Boggan probably can drive a right hand drive vehicle on right side of the road)


Edited by loop_boom_smash - 09/14/2021 at 1:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2021 at 1:45am
I actually tried that, having two rackets, you can have 4 different surfaces (like one setup is double inverted and the other is long pips/short pips lol...). But it'll take some serious time to master all of them LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon_plays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2021 at 1:47am
Surely the most famous case of a truly ambidextrous world class player in other sports is snooker player Ronnie O'Sullivan who is (I dare say universally) regarded as the best player of all time and who has won matches against the very best of his competition playing with both hands. 

Of course, he has significantly more time for his shots than a table tennis player. 


Edited by Simon_plays - 09/14/2021 at 5:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allencorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/15/2021 at 12:42am
I played a guy years ago who had inverted on one side and pips on the other, and he switched hands in mid-point and was equally adept with his forehand with either hand, and twiddled. It was pretty much chaos playing him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuLimei Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/15/2021 at 3:55am
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