Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - forehand technique that hurts the body?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

forehand technique that hurts the body?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: forehand technique that hurts the body?
    Posted: 10/21/2021 at 12:23am
Hi all,

This has been one of the most important videos in my way to understanding the technique of the forehand loop. We have mentioned it here several times in the last years and I could not find it today but with a bit of sleuthing I could find Wei Wang's channel. A long time ago the video was hosted on alphatabletennis.com and from there with wayback.com I pulled threads, it was fun and the reward came. 


We also used the video to discuss why Maze broke his lower back/sacrum and later on, when Zhang Jike started the cortisone shots and eventually gave up competition, the discussion took another boost.

That video shows how hard Maze is on himself and at the same time how smooth the kinetic chain is when we Ma Long loops in the background. There lies the incredible value of the video, smooth v. hard. Long career v. shot in flight.

Zeio has great posts about it that I can't find. Also blahness in that defining waist rotation thread.

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
obesechopper View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/20/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 12:48am
Maze might use a bit more lumbar rotation at times, but I think a big factor that goes unspoken of is... genetic resilience to INJURY.

You can minimize your chances by following certain techniques, but there comes a point where your body can either handle the training load or it can't. Same goes for ANY sport! You must adjust for your own strengths and stop doing things that cause damage. 

Maze appears to use a lot more elbow/arm to generate power, which you'd think would lessen the strain for some other areas. 

Timo is 40+, uses similar technique to Maze and still competes. 


Edited by obesechopper - 10/21/2021 at 12:49am
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 1:34am
You are very close to the biological realm of life (whaaat?) there; from there we could say "OK and what if same resilience...etc.." but your approach is very much understanding the randomness of it all. Ma Long had it all at several right times for example and Timo in various big stages did not. There comes the huge cultural factor on one side but in Maze's case, I think his mental was bigger than what his body can handle, which you kinda said.
Back to Top
mon22 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/05/2010
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mon22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2021 at 7:04am
timo also trains religiously both in TT and resistance training like the Chinese based on his social media 

From when MAZE was still pro (not retired) I remember translating a euro forum stating that his training ethics isn’t comparable to TIMOs

Mamba mentality 
I am a total Newb. Come at me!
Back to Top
ThePongProfessor View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2021 at 12:52pm
Michael Maze - like yours truly (and some other TT friends that I know) - also had CAM-FAI (Cam-type femoroacetabular impingement), which limits how much hip rotation he could do, before his femoral head started shredding the cartilage in his hip socket. He - like yours truly - had surgery for this. This, in part, explains his chicken wing technique (he did what his body allowed him to do). This, in turn, places more strain on the lower back, I think....  
Website: www.thepongprofessor.com

YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor

Feedback
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2021 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by ThePongProfessor ThePongProfessor wrote:

Michael Maze - like yours truly (and some other TT friends that I know) - also had CAM-FAI (Cam-type femoroacetabular impingement), which limits how much hip rotation he could do, before his femoral head started shredding the cartilage in his hip socket. He - like yours truly - had surgery for this. This, in part, explains his chicken wing technique (he did what his body allowed him to do). This, in turn, places more strain on the lower back, I think....  
Yes Mr. Professor, thanks for pointing at the arrogance of my comments in the most civilized manner. What do I know to publicly advance ideas about what caused injuries in a top level athlete? It would take knowledge in medicine, then knowledge in top level athletes sports medicine and also knowledge of the game at the highest level. I wrote like I had all 3... I am getting better but I have a lot of room to improve, thanks again.
I should have let the question in suspense only to talk about the value of the video that's real.

I find interesting that you say technique was induced by bodily limitations, that's new to me, I totally get it but I had never thought about it that way. Thanks for sharing the info about what limited MM's career.
Back to Top
ThePongProfessor View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2021 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

Originally posted by ThePongProfessor ThePongProfessor wrote:

Michael Maze - like yours truly (and some other TT friends that I know) - also had CAM-FAI (Cam-type femoroacetabular impingement), which limits how much hip rotation he could do, before his femoral head started shredding the cartilage in his hip socket. He - like yours truly - had surgery for this. This, in part, explains his chicken wing technique (he did what his body allowed him to do). This, in turn, places more strain on the lower back, I think....  
Yes Mr. Professor, thanks for pointing at the arrogance of my comments in the most civilized manner. What do I know to publicly advance ideas about what caused injuries in a top level athlete? It would take knowledge in medicine, then knowledge in top level athletes sports medicine and also knowledge of the game at the highest level. I wrote like I had all 3... I am getting better but I have a lot of room to improve, thanks again.
I should have let the question in suspense only to talk about the value of the video that's real.

I find interesting that you say technique was induced by bodily limitations, that's new to me, I totally get it but I had never thought about it that way. Thanks for sharing the info about what limited MM's career.

stiltt, no reason to apologize (I didn't there was anything about your hypothesis or train of thought that was arrogant). We are just exchanging thoughts. None us are pros :) 
Website: www.thepongprofessor.com

YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor

Feedback
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/24/2021 at 2:29am
Thank you, I was kinda self awareness training too, it can't hurt. 
There are 2 Danish people people where I work and they both know MM by name and one knows where he lives. What a star, he brought the fighting spirit of table tennis to the level of MMA and at the same time he had so much touch and finesse (not saying mma technique can't be subtle, I am sure anything at the top level is subtle but I never went there), he was the quintessential semi-god sports can produce.
Back to Top
ThePongProfessor View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThePongProfessor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 1:52am
I absolutely love his passion and attitude. More often than not, it lost him matches, but boy when it didn't....it lifted his game to outstanding levels.   
Website: www.thepongprofessor.com

YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor

Feedback
Back to Top
yogi_bear View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 11/25/2004
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 6963
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2021 at 2:24pm
Rotator Cuff Injury - due to overswinging your arms during a loop or smash without snapping or flexing the elbows upon contact and without waist rotation.

Tennis Elbow - tensing your arm and elbow too much even when doing backswings and not during at the time of ball contact. Also, again due in part of not snapping or flexing your elbows properly upon contacting the ball when doing forehand drives or loops.

Lumbar back pain - several factors like bending over of body but knees are not that bent, non-coordination of body parts when doing backswings until follow through (the shoulders example have already finished rotating while the waist still not has not rotated), having a straight back instead of the body leaning forward which results to a tighter back.

I usually teach this especially to beginners and older players. It supports my enforcing of proper strokes, footwork and technique to help avoid injury.
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.