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Side spin as a lower throw return

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bozbrisvegas View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11/17/2021 at 10:19pm
I am visualising topspin coming toward me spinning from 12 to 6 o'clock straight down the centre of the ball (not as the clock turns)

There are times when you have to hit the equator (12) of the top spin coming at you (directly dealing with 100% of the spin and reverse it).  Then there are times hitting that top spin with your own counter top spin will just send the ball up too high or long off the table.  This is often the case with very high throw rubbers like tenergy 05 or soft tacky Chinese rubbers.

I am theorising that when you know you will:

1.  actively play a big shot.
2.  not be a chopper, blocker or pure side spinner...
3.  probably predominantly top spin back the top spin ball too high or long

you should opt for hitting the 10.30 (right-handed forehand fade) or 1.30 (right-handed forehand hook) point of the incoming top spun ball to lower the throw and still actively add complexity for your opponent to deal with. 



This is not because you love side spin, it's just because you want to keep the ball lower and not rocketing long off the table,and still add some type of spin to deal with.

Next,  I believe that if the ball is higher (for a right handed player) 10.30 is the best.  If the ball lower, for example below table height, 1.30 is best.

And as an extension smashing with a bit of 10.30 will logically be easier.

Finally, as far as possible, be prepared for a backhand after the fade, and be prepared for another forehand after the hook since the sidespin will affect the player unless they are advanced players.


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 11/18/2021 at 6:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/18/2021 at 4:23pm
Actually this is interesting. I think sidespin is extremely important to increase dwell time and control and consistency, as well as making it more difficult for the opponent to deal with (as it kicks sideways). 

For the FH my hit points are always close to 3 oclock regardless of whether it's a hook or a fade (coz I don't want to telegraph my intentions and placement). For a hook it'll be similar to how everyone does it, I brush from 3 O clock to 12 O clock along the right side of the ball. For a fade I go from 3 O clock to 1030 O clock, but I brush/drag it across the back of the ball. 

I came across this video which helped me a lot in developing the stroke.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2021 at 2:04am
Hey that is a slightly different interpretation.  I get your 3 to 10.30 on some probably slower incoming balls.  I was imagining it a bit faster and just looping straight into the 10.30 for the fade.

I watched the vid but I don't understand Chinese.  The kids are pretty good right.  I do think we all get the same logic of using mostly fades toward their backhand and hooks mostly toward their forehand to widen the game.   I would though say instead of widening it can be used to lower throw and also help yourself predict which side to expect the weaker return.

If I fade, I should ready a backhand, and if I hook I should ready another forehand.


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 11/19/2021 at 2:07am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/19/2021 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Hey that is a slightly different interpretation.  I get your 3 to 10.30 on some probably slower incoming balls.  I was imagining it a bit faster and just looping straight into the 10.30 for the fade.

I watched the vid but I don't understand Chinese.  The kids are pretty good right.  I do think we all get the same logic of using mostly fades toward their backhand and hooks mostly toward their forehand to widen the game.   I would though say instead of widening it can be used to lower throw and also help yourself predict which side to expect the weaker return.

If I fade, I should ready a backhand, and if I hook I should ready another forehand.

Yeah definitely if the sidespin helps a lot in lowering the throw and controlling incoming topspin. I use (abuse?) the fade/hook mechanism in almost all my strokes (from pushes to flicks to blocks to loops) to really increase the angle that opponents have to deal with. And yes heavy sidespin (especially if the ball exits the table from the sidelines) will almost always get returned in a diagonal line (as the straight line pathway is way too short and almost requires going around the net), and then you can change the direction to the opposite corner with the opposite sidespin. It's quite a nasty trick. For eg against a serve to short BH (extremely common scenario) you can chiquita to their wide BH to get them out of position, then BH fade it down the line. Or use a FH fade receive to their wide BH, then hook loop it down the line to their FH. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2021 at 5:52am
For sure, most my pushes and blocks are also sidespin especially countering the usual forehand pendulum sidespin backspin serve.

Because I have no forehand loop at the moment I am also purely sidespinning back stuff that I should be looping.  Not ideal but I have to do something while I wait to heal and train the loop back.

Even when I did loop well back in the day, shots that would go into my elbow almost all were side spun blocked either forehand or backhand depending on which shot I was thinking I was most probably going to play, but got jammed some how in the middle.
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