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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/06/2022 at 5:07am
Changed back to Dignics 09c on the FH and man what a joy it is to play with it. I would say that the K1 plus experiment is over lol, 09c is just a superior rubber in every single way. The FH powerloops just go so much faster now and I feel so much more relaxed when performing them, not worrying too much about missing the table. I guess Butterfly can keep having my hard earned cash after all!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/07/2022 at 5:43am
Gonna experiment with a BH counterloop brushing over the top of the ball as a variation during rallies... I think it'll be quite a nasty surprise hahah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/11/2022 at 6:32pm
Played quite well yesterday night combining a lot of things I learnt but still only got a 10% winrate against my practice partner lol. Super frustrating losing all those 9-9 and 10-10 situations - there were a lot of them and I think I only won like 1/7 of those games, some of them due to bad luck, and others just coz I misread the combos (too many combos to come from long pips/inverted twiddlers yikes). Apparently my chiquita was way too predictable in terms of the placement from the short wide BH as it was too hard to go down the line for those. He suggested that I should try the wide BH to wide BH short diagonal line - which I'll try the next session. 

Learnt that deceptive fast down the line hook serves to the deep FH can be quite deadly against penholders! Even when they manage to loop it, if you block it wide to their BH the point is often decidedly in your advantage. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/18/2022 at 8:15pm
Improved my winrate to around 50% the last 2 sessions. The key changes I did was varying my serve placements a lot and being unafraid to serve long and fast, but just being mindful of recovering fast after the serve. 

Other changes I did was to be a lot more active on the feet by doing a lot of microsteps especially when the ball is falling down during the opponent's serve toss. I also got a lot more aggressive on the FH loops, the basic idea is to really go after the ball (80% effort) with a very high quality powerloop. The strange thing is that recovery time was actually better if I committed to the stroke and doing the complete weight transfer. By having a dangerous FH which my opponent knows he can't control well, this limited the variety of placements for me to deal with. 

Some areas that need improvements - FH flicking very short LP balls (not as easy due to spin variations), looping higher quality fast/long BH pendulum serves (strange thing is I loop FH pendulum serves much more easily and effectively). 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2022 at 3:59am
Cool. Serve and return has always been the key to success in our sport.  The amount of variation in speed, spin and location is quite extreme.

I have since I returned to playing almost given up on my FH (clip the left side of the ball) serve.  There is something about the bh clip the right side and fh clip the right side that makes it really hard to return.  Especially when crosses the elbow point.  Bounce on the opponents bh side but swings over to their fh.  It just puts it into a bit of no mans land.

Variation is key and I too must keep practising the usual fh left clip for variation which often gets free points too when it is unexpected.

---

Here's the simple difference between a low level player and a high level player returning the ball.

low level player will return the ball where you want with the stype of side spin you put on your serve.  The high level will go the opposite very often.

Hence, if I want a high level player to push to my backhand I will serve sidespin that would go to my forehand usually in a return.

Weird world of TT.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2022 at 4:29am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Cool. Serve and return has always been the key to success in our sport.  The amount of variation in speed, spin and location is quite extreme.

I have since I returned to playing almost given up on my FH (clip the left side of the ball) serve.  There is something about the bh clip the right side and fh clip the right side that makes it really hard to return.  Especially when crosses the elbow point.  Bounce on the opponents bh side but swings over to their fh.  It just puts it into a bit of no mans land.

Variation is key and I too must keep practising the usual fh left clip for variation which often gets free points too when it is unexpected.

---

Here's the simple difference between a low level player and a high level player returning the ball.

low level player will return the ball where you want with the stype of side spin you put on your serve.  The high level will go the opposite very often.

Hence, if I want a high level player to push to my backhand I will serve sidespin that would go to my forehand usually in a return.

Weird world of TT.



I agree, hook and reverse pendulum serves are usually harder to return well compared to standard FH pendulum serves. I really hate the fast long versions to my BH with huge amounts of spin, the way I do it is just to powerloop them hard in other to scare the opponent from serving them again, but if they continue doing that they'll know that the success rates are not that great, and the follow up is not that easy either if the block is good. I actually receive the FH pendulum serve with my BH with ease no matter if it's pushing, chiquita or looping. 

Lol at lower levels they won't even be able to return to serve let alone control the direction.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2022 at 5:13am
wasnt referring to that low.  Just to a cross over a point and more so talking about a strategy to get good players to play to your strengths.  Probably why I always clip the right of the ball in serves...  I want them to go to my Backhand for me to open.

Edited by bozbrisvegas - 03/19/2022 at 5:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/19/2022 at 5:31am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

wasnt referring to that low.  Just to a cross over a point and more so talking about a strategy to get good players to play to your strengths.  Probably why I always clip the right of the ball in serves...  I want them to go to my Backhand for me to open.

I would say higher level players especially those with LP, they can pretty much receive your serve to whatever placement they want. In a real match though, due to percentages it's just safer to go diagonal because of the increased length, so you serve to the short BH corner 70% of the time it's gonna go to your BH. It even works with FH pendulum sidespin serves to the same location. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/22/2022 at 6:53am
Played a round robin with much stronger players and lost all of them as expected... The biggest issue I noticed was the quality of the serve which was insane. They looked almost identical especially the hook serves and the heavy under/no spin combos but had such heavy spin variation. And the placement was just deadly precise to all the uncomfortable areas. Tbh they had some issues with my serves too but they were at least placing them to awkward positions with heavy spin which made it quite difficult to attack even if it pops up, whereas if I misread their serve it was often just a direct point ouch....  I didn't really feel I was that disadvantaged in the rally and i think my loop was actually of higher quality than theirs being a young guy lol. But I couldn't get there, they completely jammed my chiquita and I just wasn't able to get past their serve/receive game which is on a completely different level. 

One guy had a really interesting stroke, it was a BH opening loop with inside out spin, I literally never thought it was possible (most of my BH openings are with the normal sidespin direction, diagonal). It was such a powerful weapon because it was short, low and ultra spinny and to the FH corner. I have no idea how he does it but it'll be such a powerful addition to my BH opening loop repertoire. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/22/2022 at 8:30am
service return is such a pain.  Even when you think the serve is nothing special, because its 'new' to a new spot...  Sounds like you had fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/22/2022 at 9:45am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

service return is such a pain.  Even when you think the serve is nothing special, because its 'new' to a new spot...  Sounds like you had fun.

Yes... serve return (especially against players you haven't faced before) is a huge pain. Just way too much variation and disguise to deal with. And if you don't return serve well you already lost for the most part... I guess it's part and parcel of the table tennis game. Even in pro matches there are some downright ugly games which were all about serving.....

The other takeaway I had was to try out shadow practice with just body mechanics without arm (a tip I got) to further improve shot quality. But tbh none of those would have saved me from being destroyed by their serves.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maur1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2022 at 2:34pm
On the body movement without your arm.

I got an old bat and placed a wedge of foam behind it and strapped it to my chest.
So with  normal stance it faces where you want the ball to go.

The idea is to do the squat and up thrust method of the modern backhand and get the ball on the table.
Really makes you learn how to be more dynamic like Harimoto LOL

I might make a video of my attempt of this and post it to my youtube channel maurice tate




Edited by maur1010 - 03/23/2022 at 2:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/23/2022 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by maur1010 maur1010 wrote:

On the body movement without your arm.

I got an old bat and placed a wedge of foam behind it and strapped it to my chest.
So with  normal stance it faces where you want the ball to go.

The idea is to do the squat and up thrust method of the modern backhand and get the ball on the table.
Really makes you learn how to be more dynamic like Harimoto LOL

I might make a video of my attempt of this and post it to my youtube channel maurice tate



haha that's kinda extreme LOL but yes it's the same idea. Combining the two sources of energy (body, arm) is not so easy though, requires some really good timing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maur1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2022 at 2:29pm
'' Combining the two sources of energy (body, arm) is not so easy though, requires some really good timing. ''

I find to focus on the delay of the body moving first and the arm then follows next makes the timing issue much easier. One of the secret keys of table tennis that most coaches never talk about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2022 at 6:12pm
Originally posted by maur1010 maur1010 wrote:

'' Combining the two sources of energy (body, arm) is not so easy though, requires some really good timing. ''

I find to focus on the delay of the body moving first and the arm then follows next makes the timing issue much easier. One of the secret keys of table tennis that most coaches never talk about.


It's true that the body needs to go first, however the arm can't be too delayed too imo, there's a timing that is just right and missing that timing will lead to much lower shot quality because of inefficient transfer of energy to the ball, regardless of the input energy. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maur1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/24/2022 at 8:34pm
Yes I agree it also depends on swing length. Big swing usually means big delay. But then again Timo Boll forehand has big delay with no actual backwing of the arm before the whip action.
I generally see club players do not have enough delay compared to the opposite issue of too much.
Brett Clark kept telling me backswing as the body is going in the opposite direction in all strokes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2022 at 2:12am
Originally posted by maur1010 maur1010 wrote:

Yes I agree it also depends on swing length. Big swing usually means big delay. But then again Timo Boll forehand has big delay with no actual backwing of the arm before the whip action.
I generally see club players do not have enough delay compared to the opposite issue of too much.
Brett Clark kept telling me backswing as the body is going in the opposite direction in all strokes.

Agreed. Most players overuse the arm including myself at times. Using the body effectively is key to improving shot quality everywhere from serves, pushes, flicks, loops. The delay is definitely part and parcel of ensuring that the body leads the movement and not vice versa. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2022 at 7:17am
Nobody really talks about this concept probably because I am untrained and love being that way.  Hence I make up shit nobody might get a lot of the time.

But I know a lot of the high level players have very different grips (and probably stances)

With that pretext out the way, 

I have a very strong possibility of doing either BH or FH but I am never high probability in the middle of doing either.  It's just too late for me to alter that or I couldn't be bothered altering it.

What does this mean?  Instead of thinking of "delay"

I wait on a FH or a BH.  Not both.   Because my FH is way weaker than my BH I almost always "wait" for a forehand (especially at random moment like service receive) since I can quickly adapt to do a BH.

This is related to your timing and delay ideas.  It's related to probability of success etc.

It's in my opinion much harder to quickly do a FH than BH so waiting on the FH makes sense.

Waiting on something is how you hold the bat, how you position your legs etc.  


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 03/27/2022 at 7:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2022 at 8:34am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Nobody really talks about this concept probably because I am untrained and love being that way.  Hence I make up shit nobody might get a lot of the time.

But I know a lot of the high level players have very different grips (and probably stances)

With that pretext out the way, 

I have a very strong possibility of doing either BH or FH but I am never high probability in the middle of doing either.  It's just too late for me to alter that or I couldn't be bothered altering it.

What does this mean?  Instead of thinking of "delay"

I wait on a FH or a BH.  Not both.   Because my FH is way weaker than my BH I almost always "wait" for a forehand (especially at random moment like service receive) since I can quickly adapt to do a BH.

This is related to your timing and delay ideas.  It's related to probability of success etc.

It's in my opinion much harder to quickly do a FH than BH so waiting on the FH makes sense.

Waiting on something is how you hold the bat, how you position your legs etc.  

I think the delay we were talking about is the lag between the body movement and the arm movement, which is part of the stroke, not so much about the timing of which you hit the ball (on the rise, top of bounce, falling). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/27/2022 at 8:41am
the delay is a delay and the time has to come from somewhere.  Hence I didn't think anyone would get it.  you can talk about taking time to move your body or whatever now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2022 at 4:11am
Lost 4 games in a row against a better player and I had match points for each of the games. Damn these guys really have a lot of experience how to play during crucial points. There's always some nasty serve or receive variation that they never used before in the game, whereas I had to show all my cards to get to that position (with match points). 

Maybe next time imma gonna do the same, reserve some special weapons for use at crucial moments. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2022 at 5:32am
I am always on the topic of should I be treating this game as practise or try to win.

Today I got one player who just serves long topspin sidespin repeatedly to my bh.  

We only played points, not games today, but I know that he would change that the moment he is losing.

Similarly, I say to people who want to play games: I am happy to play them, but I will be focussing on something.  (might be a cop out to say why I will probably lose) but I don't care.  It's how you get better for real comp where it's recorded.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/28/2022 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

I am always on the topic of should I be treating this game as practise or try to win.

Today I got one player who just serves long topspin sidespin repeatedly to my bh.  

We only played points, not games today, but I know that he would change that the moment he is losing.

Similarly, I say to people who want to play games: I am happy to play them, but I will be focussing on something.  (might be a cop out to say why I will probably lose) but I don't care.  It's how you get better for real comp where it's recorded.

I think it's always good to be working on something every match. Otherwise it's just doing the same thing every time which is really boring... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2022 at 12:03am
I wouldn't say boring, maybe less productive to improvement.

Same guy I mentioned yesterday, today we played games and of course 90% were short spinny to my FH... :)

Match play is for strategy.

Still I find myself somewhere in between, I don't want to annoy my partners with constant misses or continuous losing, so if I say am practising a weak serve or shot during games, I make sure I mix it up with strengths too... 

As for you playing players much stronger... yes you pretty much have to give them the best you got for that period.

Nothing boring about that.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/20/2022 at 11:27am
Didn't play for a few months, and then came back and actually somehow became even stronger lol. I think I lost most of my chiquita accuracy - it's so bad that I'm resorting to pushing, but otherwise I felt I play a lot more loosely and relaxed and somehow that is resulting in some really powerful shotmaking which I'm liking so far haha. 


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