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JTTA Asian Games 2022 Qualifier, 4/9-10

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pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2022 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

She may be OFFICIALLY the highest-ranked now, but to be recognized as one of the best 2? Not that easy. The standard now is far higher than it was in 2019.

She needs more titles. That's why I listed them in my last post.

https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/07103002/20210801_dani_syutokusya.pdf
https://jtta.s3.ap-northeast-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/11210317/20190911_kitei03_6.pdf
Ito is 10-dan(not official yet) for being Olympic Champion.
Ishikawa is 9-dan for being World Champion.
Hirano and Hayata are both 8-dan for being Asian Champions.
Not to discount Kasumi's past achievements, but her 2019 World Champion is Mixed Doubles WC - silver with Yoshimura.  More recently, HH is the 2021 Mixed Doubles World Champion - silver with Miwa's brother.  HH is also 2021 Women's Doubles WC - silver with Mima Ito.  Kasumi lost to HH at last year's WTT Contender Doha.  She also lost to HH at the 1st Paris Olympic Trials this year. TBH, HH has been really solid as of late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2022 at 6:50pm
Hina also has the best winning percentage against Cnt players ( out of all Japan women's players) I think. 
She was also the T league MVP with the best winning percentage in the previous year.  She also achieved  first place  in this year's trial as well.
Apart from Ito, I don't think there is any japanese player better than Hina at the moment. You are welcome to prove me wrong. Maybe the 2 miyus would get close to her level in the near future.


Edited by jackwong23 - 05/06/2022 at 5:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 9:49am
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Not to discount Kasumi's past achievements, but her 2019 World Champion is Mixed Doubles WC - silver with Yoshimura. More recently, HH is the 2021 Mixed Doubles World Champion - silver with Miwa's brother. HH is also 2021 Women's Doubles WC - silver with Mima Ito. Kasumi lost to HH at last year's WTT Contender Doha. She also lost to HH at the 1st Paris Olympic Trials this year. TBH, HH has been really solid as of late.

I get what you're saying, but the JNT has a distinctly different perspective on hierarchy. In the latest national team roster(2022/04/04), the order still goes like this:
1. Ito
2. Ishikawa
3. Hayata
4. Hirano
5. Kihara
6. Sato
7. Nagasaki

The criteria for the order is not entirely clear. In the Regulation Handbook, article 27(see page 4-5, "第 27 条(NT、JNT 及び HNT 選手の選出及び手順)") lists the selection and procedure of NT, JNT and HNT players but nothing on the order. After years of following it, all I can tell is that the order is not solely/necessarily dependent on world ranking, dan ranks, recent results at All-Japan Championships, etc.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 10:04am
Rumors have been floating for a while, but it's official now. Asian Games 2022 has been postponed to 2023.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3176753/2022-asian-games-postponed-chinese-state-media-report

Hayata & Hirano: T_T
Ito: ^_^
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2022 at 10:21am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Rumors have been floating for a while, but it's official now. Asian Games 2022 has been postponed to 2023.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3176753/2022-asian-games-postponed-chinese-state-media-report

Hayata & Hirano: T_T
Ito: ^_^
Oh no!  Now I'm wondering if they'll postpone the ITTF World Teams Championships as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackwong23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 1:49am
Who in the right mind would believe Kasumi is a better player than Hayata right now? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 9:36am
Tieba users? Especially those who haven't followed Hayata as extensively and measure strength by number of titles?

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7791706026?pid=143749565193&cid=0#143749565193
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 10:34am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Tieba users? Especially those who haven't followed Hayata as extensively and measure strength by number of titles?

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7791706026?pid=143749565193&cid=0#143749565193
If going by number of titles, then Kasumi, who is 8 years older, definitely wins.  But in terms of recent performance, I really can't think of any measure that puts Kasumi ahead of HH.  I will give credit to Kasumi for playing HH exceptionally well at Top32 losing 9-11 in the 7th.  

BTW, by saying HH is better now, I don't want to disparage in any way Kasumi either professionally or personally. She's had a good career and is loved by table tennis fans throughout Japan and rightfully so.  She was on a tour in April promoting table tennis throughout all of Japan to young children.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 2:47pm
Ouch.  Lily's control game against defense is non-existent.  I expected Ojio to win, but the disparity is just cringeworthy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by jackwong23 jackwong23 wrote:

Who in the right mind would believe Kasumi is a better player than Hayata right now? 


Precisely, zero people.
Muhammad Ali reacted to light in 150 milliseconds, near the theoretical limit of human visual reaction time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

If going by number of titles, then Kasumi, who is 8 years older, definitely wins.  But in terms of recent performance, I really can't think of any measure that puts Kasumi ahead of HH.  I will give credit to Kasumi for playing HH exceptionally well at Top32 losing 9-11 in the 7th.  

BTW, by saying HH is better now, I don't want to disparage in any way Kasumi either professionally or personally. She's had a good career and is loved by table tennis fans throughout Japan and rightfully so.  She was on a tour in April promoting table tennis throughout all of Japan to young children.

That is the counterargument in the reply to the next comment, which is opposed by another counterargument that Ishikawa's accomplishment at the same age is still better(not explicitly stated but I suppose it's referring to her status as two-time All-Japan Champion at that point, apparently without any regard to the level of competition).

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?22651-All-Japan-Championship-2020-Jan-13-19&p=302822&viewfull=1#post302822
Quote zeio: Ok, google. Find me an image that explains why yours truly differentiates most decorated from greatest of all time. "Dominating" in a weak era =/= "Prevailing" in a strong era.



https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?24633-Fraser-Riley-1-WHO-IS-THE-BEST-YOUNG-PLAYER-IN-THE-WORLD&p=333454&viewfull=1#post333454
Quote At the press conference after losing to Harimoto at the All-Japan Championships 2018, Mizutani said he was fortunate to have won so many titles(9 at the time) before Harimoto came along and that his strength was on par with the CNT players. That's why I distinguish most decorated from greatest of all time.


Ironically, there was a thread a few months ago discussing the current top class lefty women, with an initial list below, and Hayata was the top choice for one obvious reason. That shows she still has much to do to shed that image of doubles specialist.
1. Hayata
2. Ishikawa
3. Jeon Jihee
4. Qian Tianyi
5. Solja

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/7700846286?pid=142910103455&cid=0#142910103455

Edited by zeio - 05/08/2022 at 4:37am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2022 at 7:11pm
It's possible that Kasumi accomplished more at the same age than HH has but as you mentioned the level of competition now is far greater than Kasumi's generation.  However, Kasumi is nearing the tail end of her career without a bronze in women's singles at either the Olympics or the WCs.  And she's had multiple opportunities to do so.  I don't expect her to beat the top Chinese at either OG or WC, but against non Chinese or non-top Chinese she's had her chances:

2012 London Olympics - lost to FTW in bronze medal match
2016 Rio Olympics - lost to Kim Song I in bronze medal match
2020 Tokyo Olympics - lost to YMY in QF

2015 WC - lost to Mu Zi (a very good Chinese player, but I wouldn't consider top level Chinese)
2019 WC - lost to DHK in QF

It remains to be seen whether HH will get the same opportunities and if so, can she win a bronze or better.  I like what I've seen so far though.  Even though she's clearly behind the top Chinese at the moment, I can see that at least she's making good in game adjustments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2022 at 8:58am
Miyazaki: No changes to the point table and selected singles players for Asian Games.

https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2022/05/08/kiji/20220508s00026000284000c.html
Quote  宮崎強化本部長は「£表もポイントもスライドするイメージ。そうしないと選手に不公平になる。選手が獲得した権利は守£てあげたい」と説明。£表決定後に1年延期が決ま£た東京五輪でも£表選手の再選考は行わず、好結果を残している。
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2022 at 2:25pm
Don't get me started.

Losing to FTW in the 3rd place match at London 2012 is excusable, seeing it was her first Olympics and FTW was in her prime. Losing to Kim Song I in the R32(first round of main draw) at Rio 2016 is tolerable, given Kim was the dark horse and went the distance against DN, as well as beating Fukuhara in the 3rd place match. But that score against YMY in the QF at Tokyo 2020? Not what the H2H would have suggested. Even a recovering Hirano did better than that.

Losing to Zhang Yining(eventual winner) at WTTC 2009(Ishikawa's first singles debut, beating Tie Yana and YMY in the process), DN(eventual winner) at WTTC 2011, Mu Zi at WTTC 2015, DN(eventual winner) again at WTTC 2017 and CM at WTTC 2021 are all comprehensible, but Ri Myong-sun in R32 at WTTC 2013 and DHK in R16 at WTTC 2019(admittedly, DHK gave CM a good scare in the next round)? That should raise some flags, but sadly no. Folks still stuck to their misguided feelings and false impressions that Ishikawa was immensely better than Hirano in H2H against foregin players.

Back to Hayata. As I pointed out, she still needs more titles. World ranking is just a number. And in this Olympic cycle, under the pandemic, its value has been diminished to the point that its weight is light as a feather.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2022 at 6:37am
https://friday.kodansha.co.jp/article/241082
Quote 「ここ10年間、中国選手はず£と安定的に強か£たですが、今の強さは究極といえます。特にひなと同世£の孫穎莎(スン・インシ£)、王曼昱(ワン・マンユ)は強烈な技術がある。男子並みのボールを打ち、これまでの常識では考えられなか£た域に既に到達している。間違いなく歴£最強クラスでしょう」

...

「今の中国選手のレベルは本当に究極。でも究極ゆえに、そこを目指しながらこれまで以上にコツコツやるということがひなには合£ています。ひなには、高い目標を諦める様子は微塵もないですよ。中国選手を倒した先には当然パリへと繋が£ていくし、そんな状況を何より楽しめているのがあの子の成長で、強さでもあるんです」
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2022 at 3:31am
On 5/12, the date for the Paris 2024 Qualifier #3 has been tentatively changed back to 11/12-13.

https://jtta.or.jp/news/6531
Quote 強化本部は、第2回パリオリンピック選考会(Road to Paris)選出基準 を5月12日に日程訂£・4月28日に一部変更しました

第1回 選考会日程 :2022年3月5~6日 詳細
第2回 選考会日程:2022年9月3~4日予定 第2回選考会選出基準
第3回 選考会日程:2022年11月12~13日予定    *5/12 日程訂£
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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