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Westchester TTC 2022 July Open

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    Posted: 08/01/2022 at 3:34pm
Here are some shots from this weekend's tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 6:16am
Hi,

I had the opportunity to watch this tournament, a record-breaker in attendance for the Westchester club.

One observation I have notes two players who are decidedly underrated.

One is Junxiao Wang: with a rating in the high 2400s, he is way better than that.

The other is Andrew Cao, from the Samson Dubina Academy.  He is really charging upward in his progress.  I very much like how his coach is directing his development.  He is someone to watch.

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 9:22am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

I had the opportunity to watch this tournament, a record-breaker in attendance for the Westchester club.

One observation I have notes two players who are decidedly underrated.

One is Junxiao Wang: with a rating in the high 2400s, he is way better than that.

The other is Andrew Cao, from the Samson Dubina Academy.  He is really charging upward in his progress.  I very much like how his coach is directing his development.  He is someone to watch.

Thanks.


Do you say this because they forced Jishan and Adi Sareen to a deciding 5th game?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

I had the opportunity to watch this tournament, a record-breaker in attendance for the Westchester club.

One observation I have notes two players who are decidedly underrated.

One is Junxiao Wang: with a rating in the high 2400s, he is way better than that.

The other is Andrew Cao, from the Samson Dubina Academy.  He is really charging upward in his progress.  I very much like how his coach is directing his development.  He is someone to watch.

Thanks.


Do you say this because they forced Jishan and Adi Sareen to a deciding 5th game?

In the case of Wang: I say this because I watched four of his matches, observing the structure of his game reflecting technical standards with accompanying skill development that significantly exceeds his USATT rating.

In the case of Andrew: Certain aspects of his aggressive game are being emphasized that are distinct from others in his age and class.  It was clear in his match with Adi that these distinctions were influential in the outcome.


Edited by DonnOlsen - 08/03/2022 at 12:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

I had the opportunity to watch this tournament, a record-breaker in attendance for the Westchester club.

One observation I have notes two players who are decidedly underrated.

One is Junxiao Wang: with a rating in the high 2400s, he is way better than that.

The other is Andrew Cao, from the Samson Dubina Academy.  He is really charging upward in his progress.  I very much like how his coach is directing his development.  He is someone to watch.

Thanks.


Do you say this because they forced Jishan and Adi Sareen to a deciding 5th game?

In the case of Wang: I say this because I watched four of his matches, observing the structure of his game reflecting technical standards with accompanying skill development that significantly exceeds his USATT rating.

In the case of Andrew: Certain aspects of his aggressive game are being emphasized that are distinct from others in his age and class.  It was clear in his match with Adi that these distinctions were influential in the outcome.

I see. Thanks for sharing. With Junxiao i agree his game looks very technically perfect but that doesn't always signify success.  I suspect that him being an NYU student contributes to a lack of practice that enables him to compete above the 2500 level.

What are those aspects for Andrew?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

I had the opportunity to watch this tournament, a record-breaker in attendance for the Westchester club.

One observation I have notes two players who are decidedly underrated.

One is Junxiao Wang: with a rating in the high 2400s, he is way better than that.

The other is Andrew Cao, from the Samson Dubina Academy.  He is really charging upward in his progress.  I very much like how his coach is directing his development.  He is someone to watch.

Thanks.


Do you say this because they forced Jishan and Adi Sareen to a deciding 5th game?

In the case of Wang: I say this because I watched four of his matches, observing the structure of his game reflecting technical standards with accompanying skill development that significantly exceeds his USATT rating.

In the case of Andrew: Certain aspects of his aggressive game are being emphasized that are distinct from others in his age and class.  It was clear in his match with Adi that these distinctions were influential in the outcome.

I see. Thanks for sharing. With Junxiao i agree his game looks very technically perfect but that doesn't always signify success.  I suspect that him being an NYU student contributes to a lack of practice that enables him to compete above the 2500 level.

What are those aspects for Andrew?

With Andrew, I'm very impressed with the clear evidence of high quality coaching influence.  [I do not know who is coaching him.]  He has avoided that too-commonly-found tendency of strong juniors to incline to improvement by a reliance on defensive play, which reflects an assumption about the opponent's level that has declining applicability as the opponents' offensive skills become more powerful.  Andrew's responsive skills are still impressive, however they exist in a context of an offensive-based intention, with a foundational understanding of the key value of point-winning shots, defined as shots of a quality above the opponent's ability to respond effectively.

Andrew's sense of his rally backhand is reminiscent of the approach taken in the development of Ma Long.  This structure remains, in today's game, viable at the highest level of the sport.  His backhand, in both initiation and rally contexts, is currently competent at his level and one level above, with more development to come.  

The approach to his game has induced a well-calibrated rally forehand disposition that serves as his primary means to both take control of the point dynamic and finish the point.

All this is in the contingent state of development, with very much more in skill level to achieve.  In my view, his prospects in his age group are the best in the U.S. for attaining competencies that we witnessed with Nikhil Kumar.

Thanks. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 6:55pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:


With Andrew, I'm very impressed with the clear evidence of high quality coaching influence.  [I do not know who is coaching him.]  He has avoided that too-commonly-found tendency of strong juniors to incline to improvement by a reliance on defensive play, which reflects an assumption about the opponent's level that has declining applicability as the opponents' offensive skills become more powerful.  Andrew's responsive skills are still impressive, however they exist in a context of an offensive-based intention, with a foundational understanding of the key value of point-winning shots, defined as shots of a quality above the opponent's ability to respond effectively.

Andrew's sense of his rally backhand is reminiscent of the approach taken in the development of Ma Long.  This structure remains, in today's game, viable at the highest level of the sport.  His backhand, in both initiation and rally contexts, is currently competent at his level and one level above, with more development to come.  

The approach to his game has induced a well-calibrated rally forehand disposition that serves as his primary means to both take control of the point dynamic and finish the point.

All this is in the contingent state of development, with very much more in skill level to achieve.  In my view, his prospects in his age group are the best in the U.S. for attaining competencies that we witnessed with Nikhil Kumar.

Thanks. 

I greatly agree with the assessment in bold. It is a very common issue with American juniors. I believe he is currently coached by Samson but was developed early on by Wang Hui's team at HITTA in Houston. Don't quote me on that though.

I believe you recently posted in the nationals thread that you were high on Darryl and Daniel and a few others. I do not recall you mentioning Andrew - has he emerged as your preferred frontrunner if I am reading correctly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:


With Andrew, I'm very impressed with the clear evidence of high quality coaching influence.  [I do not know who is coaching him.]  He has avoided that too-commonly-found tendency of strong juniors to incline to improvement by a reliance on defensive play, which reflects an assumption about the opponent's level that has declining applicability as the opponents' offensive skills become more powerful.  Andrew's responsive skills are still impressive, however they exist in a context of an offensive-based intention, with a foundational understanding of the key value of point-winning shots, defined as shots of a quality above the opponent's ability to respond effectively.

Andrew's sense of his rally backhand is reminiscent of the approach taken in the development of Ma Long.  This structure remains, in today's game, viable at the highest level of the sport.  His backhand, in both initiation and rally contexts, is currently competent at his level and one level above, with more development to come.  

The approach to his game has induced a well-calibrated rally forehand disposition that serves as his primary means to both take control of the point dynamic and finish the point.

All this is in the contingent state of development, with very much more in skill level to achieve.  In my view, his prospects in his age group are the best in the U.S. for attaining competencies that we witnessed with Nikhil Kumar.

Thanks. 

I greatly agree with the assessment in bold. It is a very common issue with American juniors. I believe he is currently coached by Samson but was developed early on by Wang Hui's team at HITTA in Houston. Don't quote me on that though.

I believe you recently posted in the nationals thread that you were high on Darryl and Daniel and a few others. I do not recall you mentioning Andrew - has he emerged as your preferred frontrunner if I am reading correctly?

All are wonderful prospects.  Andrew's results were somewhat less over the time period of evaluation, an understandable consequence of his reliance on prioritizing control over the point offensively to a greater degree than the others at his stage of development.  

His training structure is evident to me in watching how he fundamentally addresses the ball.  Given this anticipated continuation, another six months development at the necessary persistence level will show demonstrable improvement.

He was with a Chinese coach at the tournament.  My impression in watching the coach's responses throughout the tournament is that the coach was pleased with Andrew's spirit of play, in both the better times and the not-better times of outcomes.  This foreshadows only good and great times ahead.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2022 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:


With Andrew, I'm very impressed with the clear evidence of high quality coaching influence.  [I do not know who is coaching him.]  He has avoided that too-commonly-found tendency of strong juniors to incline to improvement by a reliance on defensive play, which reflects an assumption about the opponent's level that has declining applicability as the opponents' offensive skills become more powerful.  Andrew's responsive skills are still impressive, however they exist in a context of an offensive-based intention, with a foundational understanding of the key value of point-winning shots, defined as shots of a quality above the opponent's ability to respond effectively.

Andrew's sense of his rally backhand is reminiscent of the approach taken in the development of Ma Long.  This structure remains, in today's game, viable at the highest level of the sport.  His backhand, in both initiation and rally contexts, is currently competent at his level and one level above, with more development to come.  

The approach to his game has induced a well-calibrated rally forehand disposition that serves as his primary means to both take control of the point dynamic and finish the point.

All this is in the contingent state of development, with very much more in skill level to achieve.  In my view, his prospects in his age group are the best in the U.S. for attaining competencies that we witnessed with Nikhil Kumar.

Thanks. 

I greatly agree with the assessment in bold. It is a very common issue with American juniors. I believe he is currently coached by Samson but was developed early on by Wang Hui's team at HITTA in Houston. Don't quote me on that though.

I believe you recently posted in the nationals thread that you were high on Darryl and Daniel and a few others. I do not recall you mentioning Andrew - has he emerged as your preferred frontrunner if I am reading correctly?

All are wonderful prospects.  Andrew's results were somewhat less over the time period of evaluation, an understandable consequence of his reliance on prioritizing control over the point offensively to a greater degree than the others at his stage of development.  

His training structure is evident to me in watching how he fundamentally addresses the ball.  Given this anticipated continuation, another six months development at the necessary persistence level will show demonstrable improvement.

He was with a Chinese coach at the tournament.  My impression in watching the coach's responses throughout the tournament is that the coach was pleased with Andrew's spirit of play, in both the better times and the not-better times of outcomes.  This foreshadows only good and great times ahead.

Thanks.

I believe Darryl has that approach and quality as well. Daniel less decidedly so, but, for now, he is able to dominate through consistency
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2022 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Originally posted by idk idk wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:


With Andrew, I'm very impressed with the clear evidence of high quality coaching influence.  [I do not know who is coaching him.]  He has avoided that too-commonly-found tendency of strong juniors to incline to improvement by a reliance on defensive play, which reflects an assumption about the opponent's level that has declining applicability as the opponents' offensive skills become more powerful.  Andrew's responsive skills are still impressive, however they exist in a context of an offensive-based intention, with a foundational understanding of the key value of point-winning shots, defined as shots of a quality above the opponent's ability to respond effectively.

Andrew's sense of his rally backhand is reminiscent of the approach taken in the development of Ma Long.  This structure remains, in today's game, viable at the highest level of the sport.  His backhand, in both initiation and rally contexts, is currently competent at his level and one level above, with more development to come.  

The approach to his game has induced a well-calibrated rally forehand disposition that serves as his primary means to both take control of the point dynamic and finish the point.

All this is in the contingent state of development, with very much more in skill level to achieve.  In my view, his prospects in his age group are the best in the U.S. for attaining competencies that we witnessed with Nikhil Kumar.

Thanks. 

I greatly agree with the assessment in bold. It is a very common issue with American juniors. I believe he is currently coached by Samson but was developed early on by Wang Hui's team at HITTA in Houston. Don't quote me on that though.

I believe you recently posted in the nationals thread that you were high on Darryl and Daniel and a few others. I do not recall you mentioning Andrew - has he emerged as your preferred frontrunner if I am reading correctly?

All are wonderful prospects.  Andrew's results were somewhat less over the time period of evaluation, an understandable consequence of his reliance on prioritizing control over the point offensively to a greater degree than the others at his stage of development.  

His training structure is evident to me in watching how he fundamentally addresses the ball.  Given this anticipated continuation, another six months development at the necessary persistence level will show demonstrable improvement.

He was with a Chinese coach at the tournament.  My impression in watching the coach's responses throughout the tournament is that the coach was pleased with Andrew's spirit of play, in both the better times and the not-better times of outcomes.  This foreshadows only good and great times ahead.

Thanks.

I believe Darryl has that approach and quality as well. Daniel less decidedly so, but, for now, he is able to dominate through consistency

Yes, indeed.  

Worthy of note is Andrew's strong commitment to hold the table to fight the fight, more so than seems to be found with others.  Much work has been done with Andrew's forehand counterattack at the table.  Any ball not sufficiently struck he will address unmercifully.  Moreover, Andrew turns to his forehand attack with impressive quickness on topspin balls landing mid-backhand quadrant, a trait that is distinctive among his age group.

Thanks. 
"I only said I was the greatest, not the smartest." Muhammad Ali
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