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How to receive short topspin serves to FH?

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dingyibvs View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12/16/2022 at 12:32am
Hi guys, I need some advice on receiving short topspin serves to the FH side. Right now I don't have any good options. I can block it back lightly, which gets looped back pretty easily. If I chop straight down it pops up which is also not ideal. Of course pushing has been the worst. Anybody has any directions or videos on how to make a quality receive? I can flick it pretty well on the BH side, but when it's really short and very much to the FH side I can't reach it well with my BH. 

Edited by dingyibvs - 12/16/2022 at 3:51am
Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
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BH: D09C max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 12:44am
What sort of sidespin is accompanying it? Techniques to deal with the BH pendulum/FH reverse pendulum/FH hook/FH tomahawk are incredibly different from the ones used to deal with the standard FH pendulum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 3:46am
Ummm, all of them? LOL

Seriously, I'm really bad at receiving all types of short topspin serves to my FH, but I suppose it's worst with the reverse pendulum/tomahawk/etc. type of side spin (i.e. curling toward my FH side). With the regular pendulum I can usually reach it with my BH if I'm very focused, in which case I can flick it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 6:12am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Ummm, all of them? LOL

Seriously, I'm really bad at receiving all types of short topspin serves to my FH, but I suppose it's worst with the reverse pendulum/tomahawk/etc. type of side spin (i.e. curling toward my FH side). With the regular pendulum I can usually reach it with my BH if I'm very focused, in which case I can flick it. 

Haha yeah I hate the reverse sidespin version the most too... 

Few things I noticed were very important is to take 3 rapid steps (right, left then right) instead of 1 big lunge which leaves you unbalanced. Once you're in position, no matter what technique you use, it must be controlled by body rotation - not the arm, and you have to rotate your body into the ball so to speak. The ball can't be too far away from your body too. 

The use of body rotation was extremely key to improving quality of the receive imo, with that extra power from the body it becomes much easier to overcome the incoming spin. 

For FH receive against reverse sidetopspin serves I usually start with the bat facing up (like a stop sign) and contact the upper half, back portion of the ball. From this point there's a few options:

1) Use a tomahawk style chop (going around the side of the ball from the back) - it is similar to a tomahawk sidespin serve if you know how to serve that. This creates extremely heavy sidebackspin which is close to impossible to attack for most players. You will have to overcome the spin using your body rotation. For placement you can place it deep to their BH/middle or wide to the FH (exiting the sides). This can also be used to create a short push if you're good enough. 

2) Soft flick - there's a WRM video talking about this, the idea is just to roll the ball forward but making sure the trajectory is short and low so that it's very hard to attack hard - you can then counterattack your opponent's weak attack. This is super useful to know since it's very safe and transforms the game into a topspin-topspin rally situation. I don't recommend the hard flick coz it can be countered and also it's a bit risky if the serve quality is high. 

3) fade/sideswipe. Waldner used this a lot but it's also very useful in amateur circuits. So the idea is you contact the back of the ball and imagine dragging it to the left with your body rotation. This will create an almost pure sidespin ball which can be incredibly difficult to attack. There's also versions that create sidetopspin (if you drag it to the left and gradually covering the ball on the top like a flick), and sideunderspin (if you drag it to the left and downwards). 
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BH: D05

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 6:26am
Against FH pendulum sidetopspin serves I use the few options and always contact the upper half of the ball on the right side. Same options here imo:

1) hook the ball and drag it wide to their FH corner with pace. You have to do it with body rotation to make it sudden. You can either add underspin with the sidespin if you brush downwards, or topspin otherwise. 

2) FH fade, technique is similar to previous except you have to contact the right side of the ball rather than the back.

3) FH soft flick - similar to previous

4) FH "hook push" where you contact the right side of the ball with the bat pointed forward (not towards the top like a tomahawk). You can add considerable amounts of sideunderspin this way too. I think some ppl use the tomahawk movement (bat pointed towards the top), the tomahawk movement gives heavier sideunderspin but the preparation can't be disguised with option 1,2 and 3 so I don't like it.



To create the heavy push you have to use body rotation and the way of brushing is kinda like doing a hook serve. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 9:17am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Ummm, all of them? LOL

Seriously, I'm really bad at receiving all types of short topspin serves to my FH, but I suppose it's worst with the reverse pendulum/tomahawk/etc. type of side spin (i.e. curling toward my FH side). With the regular pendulum I can usually reach it with my BH if I'm very focused, in which case I can flick it. 

Videotape yourself, you usually know more than enough technique to see what the problem is if you can see it.

Usually, you have to practice taking your wrist back slightly for the forehand flick and it isn't comfortable for people who grip the bat a certain way or stand a certain way that works for every other shot except the flick.  Players with practice time usually change grip for those shots subconsciously after lots of practice and then switch back to whatever they want to use for the next shot.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 10:50am
Forehand flick is probably the most efficient way to return forehand short top serve.

There are many videos on line. For me, I think the most important thing for forehand flick is footwork, timing, small stroke (basically by wrist only). It is easier to learn part by part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 7:14pm

Imo one of the most versatile, easy to learn and practical way to return FH short serves. 

The hardest part is that this forces an open rally situation which you should be very good at if you want to use this kind of receive. If you're not favoured in the topspin-topspin rally situation best to avoid this receive.
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BH: D05

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 9:09pm
Thanks for the advice guys! I'm gonna try that FH flick technique out. I've been trying to look up some videos, I could only find the videos by Yangyang and Tom Lodziak, but the services they were returning were both long and of atrocious quality. I'm gonna try the "windshield wiper" technique and see how that goes first. After that I'll try to adjust my bat angle to see if a faster flick can be done. Returning it short and/or with backspin is probably the hardest, I'll work on that last. 
Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
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BH: D09C max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2022 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm gonna try that FH flick technique out. I've been trying to look up some videos, I could only find the videos by Yangyang and Tom Lodziak, but the services they were returning were both long and of atrocious quality. I'm gonna try the "windshield wiper" technique and see how that goes first. After that I'll try to adjust my bat angle to see if a faster flick can be done. Returning it short and/or with backspin is probably the hardest, I'll work on that last. 

Yeah tbh those are kinda trash as no offence but they didn't reach that high of a level themselves so there's many important intricacies and details they don't cover. Imo best tutorials on YouTube so far are by Ti Long and WRM in my opinion. If you understand Chinese, 米粒 and Fang Bo (全世爆) also have extremely detailed tutorials on high level techniques. Fang Bo's tutorial on short push is bar none the best ever produced. He shows how it is possible to short push absolutely everything (including topspin balls, high balls, etc...) - my short push level increased tremendously after watching these. 
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2022 at 12:31am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm gonna try that FH flick technique out. I've been trying to look up some videos, I could only find the videos by Yangyang and Tom Lodziak, but the services they were returning were both long and of atrocious quality. I'm gonna try the "windshield wiper" technique and see how that goes first. After that I'll try to adjust my bat angle to see if a faster flick can be done. Returning it short and/or with backspin is probably the hardest, I'll work on that last. 

Yeah tbh those are kinda trash as no offence but they didn't reach that high of a level themselves so there's many important intricacies and details they don't cover. Imo best tutorials on YouTube so far are by Ti Long and WRM in my opinion. If you understand Chinese, 米粒 and Fang Bo (全世爆) also have extremely detailed tutorials on high level techniques. Fang Bo's tutorial on short push is bar none the best ever produced. He shows how it is possible to short push absolutely everything (including topspin balls, high balls, etc...) - my short push level increased tremendously after watching these. 

Whoa, thanks for the suggestions! Those Fang Bo videos are really awesome! I didn't know he was doing these tutorials. I thought the short push would be extremely difficult, but he made it seem so easy in this video:


I do speak Chinese, so for those who don't understand what he's saying, he really emphasized timing (taking the ball early) and using your body and feet and not your wrist and fingers ("find the ball with your feet") in this technique. Can't wait to try it out! 
Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max
BH: D09C max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2022 at 9:35am
I recommended Ti Long’s channel as well. A lot of tutorials focus on hand movements. Ti Long mentioned a lit on foot hip power. 

You can practice the footwork and wrist movements by yourself, but need a practice partner to feed you serves to get the timing right. It requires a lot of trial and error, a lot of adjustments. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2022 at 1:45am
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

Thanks for the advice guys! I'm gonna try that FH flick technique out. I've been trying to look up some videos, I could only find the videos by Yangyang and Tom Lodziak, but the services they were returning were both long and of atrocious quality. I'm gonna try the "windshield wiper" technique and see how that goes first. After that I'll try to adjust my bat angle to see if a faster flick can be done. Returning it short and/or with backspin is probably the hardest, I'll work on that last. 

Yeah tbh those are kinda trash as no offence but they didn't reach that high of a level themselves so there's many important intricacies and details they don't cover. Imo best tutorials on YouTube so far are by Ti Long and WRM in my opinion. If you understand Chinese, 米粒 and Fang Bo (全世爆) also have extremely detailed tutorials on high level techniques. Fang Bo's tutorial on short push is bar none the best ever produced. He shows how it is possible to short push absolutely everything (including topspin balls, high balls, etc...) - my short push level increased tremendously after watching these. 

Whoa, thanks for the suggestions! Those Fang Bo videos are really awesome! I didn't know he was doing these tutorials. I thought the short push would be extremely difficult, but he made it seem so easy in this video:


I do speak Chinese, so for those who don't understand what he's saying, he really emphasized timing (taking the ball early) and using your body and feet and not your wrist and fingers ("find the ball with your feet") in this technique. Can't wait to try it out! 

There's also another incredible undiscovered gem of a super high level coach, 孙浩泓 on Douyin - he's Lin Yun Ju's coach and also ex CNT....
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FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2022 at 6:28am
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