Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Humidity Problems
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Humidity Problems

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Rollko View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 03/11/2020
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Humidity Problems
    Posted: 01/19/2023 at 10:03am
Hi all,

Are there any rubbers particularly suitable for humid conditions? The gym where I practice gets steamed up very quickly (small space with 10 tables with 20+ people) leaving my rubbers damp with little spin significantly impacting even the most routine topspin strokes.

What is Rakza Z like in this regard? Are there any other looping rubbers what handle this well?

Thank you
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: NO
Status: Offline
Points: 1089
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 10:12am
Rollko - I have been holding back on making this comment for a while but I think it needs to be said. You have one of the worst case of EJ syndrome I have seen on the forums in a long time. You have made countless threads trying to account for every tiniest variable with an equipment adjustment, whether its grip tape, wings of the blade, edge tape, a few grams of weight, layers of glue, flex, humidity, a few mm of thickness of the handle, rubber pairings etc.

This level of scrutiny is way overkill and you will be running in circles forever if you keep going down this path.
Back to Top
TT newbie View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/25/2011
Location: Far Far Away
Status: Offline
Points: 1349
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 10:19am
From my experience, chinese rubbers are the worst to play in humid rooms. It´s simply unplayable.
Dignics 05 keeps well its characteristics in humid conditions. It suffers, of course, but nothing like Hurricane 3 Neo.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 11:13am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Rollko - I have been holding back on making this comment for a while but I think it needs to be said. You have one of the worst case of EJ syndrome I have seen on the forums in a long time. You have made countless threads trying to account for every tiniest variable with an equipment adjustment, whether its grip tape, wings of the blade, edge tape, a few grams of weight, layers of glue, flex, humidity, a few mm of thickness of the handle, rubber pairings etc.

This level of scrutiny is way overkill and you will be running in circles forever if you keep going down this path.

It really is his prerogative,  as much as I empathize with what you mean. People buy 20 cars even when they can only drive one at a time.  And table tennis is cheaper than cars.  Please let it be and let him enjoy his thread.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14328
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 11:18am
It is his prerogative, no question about it, and a lot of people like to try to new stuff to varying degrees, but also it could be considered constructive criticism?    
Back to Top
Rollko View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 03/11/2020
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 11:21am
Thanks, both.
Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: NO
Status: Offline
Points: 1089
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Rollko - I have been holding back on making this comment for a while but I think it needs to be said. You have one of the worst case of EJ syndrome I have seen on the forums in a long time. You have made countless threads trying to account for every tiniest variable with an equipment adjustment, whether its grip tape, wings of the blade, edge tape, a few grams of weight, layers of glue, flex, humidity, a few mm of thickness of the handle, rubber pairings etc.

This level of scrutiny is way overkill and you will be running in circles forever if you keep going down this path.

It really is his prerogative,  as much as I empathize with what you mean. People buy 20 cars even when they can only drive one at a time.  And table tennis is cheaper than cars.  Please let it be and let him enjoy his thread.

It is - however when the overarching theme in these threads has always been the effect on performance and results, it is safe to assume that improvement is his goal rather than simple enjoyment or the sake of collection/novelty. 

If someone says they need a 6.0 mm thickness blade rather than a 6.2 mm thickness blade simply because they like how it feels I would hold my tongue but when they frame it in the discussion of how it affects performance, I think my comment is justified. 

If Rollko finds that tampering with his setup every few weeks is positively contributing to his improvement and/or enjoyment, he is welcome to disregard.


Back to Top
Valiantsin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 05/21/2020
Location: OFallon
Status: Offline
Points: 241
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Valiantsin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

From my experience, chinese rubbers are the worst to play in humid rooms. It´s simply unplayable.
Dignics 05 keeps well its characteristics in humid conditions. It suffers, of course, but nothing like Hurricane 3 Neo.
I disagree with this strongly.
In humid conditions much better to play topspins with h3neo or hybrids than ordinary tensors.
While there is almost no grip on many of euro tensors including d05 and t05 - har3neo still has grip yet and the ball does not fell down.
It's actually the reason why I switched from playing fastarc g1 and mx-s mx-p to h3neo.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14222
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

It is his prerogative, no question about it, and a lot of people like to try to new stuff to varying degrees, but also it could be considered constructive criticism?    

It definitely is, and I still EJ, though being out of the game for a couple of years damped it down.  I now really want to try Rasanter C48.  But I think I am set on the Mazunov  - I found my 4th Mazunov today (it went missing during packing and moving).

In any case,  just saying that EJing is not the end of the world and it keeps our sport funded.  I do tell people who want to improve that the kind of improvement most people seek is never found by EJing.  I strongly concluded this after I saw a respectable veteran switch from BalsaCarbo X5 and Andro Hexer to Innerforce ZLC and T05 Hard and like the new setup better but I didn't see what had changed in his game.  He still trained 5 days a week.

And that last line is the key. So please let us enjoy our EJing.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 2:55pm
I think it would help to keep the various questions to one thread because some, if not many of them are actually related. On one or two occasions when I was about to gather my thoughts, the OP would start another thread.

There is a different member on TTD who would start a separate thread on a specific but related topic about equipment, and some, again if not many of them are actually worth looking into because I can offer some pointers with experimental data from studies collected over the years but ultimately decided not to because it would be difficult to keep track.

On the topic of humidity, there is an interesting study that shows the ball also plays a role, in addition to relative humidity and rubber.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
Rollko View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 03/11/2020
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 2:58pm
Thanks, zeio. Can you please share the link to the study? 
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 3:55pm
One thing I've noticed is that salt from my hands makes the rubber pick up more moisture.  I even have tried cleaning them with shaving cream, which if you didn't know, has anti fog properties on your bathroom mirror.  Don't clean them with your hands or you get salt.

Interestingly, my (Chinese) rubbers become more slow and sticky in humidity.  Partly as the rubbers heat up, but also the constant cleaning of wiping the rubers makes it seem tackier.  LIke when you just clean them. Then it feels super slow and sensitive.  At low gears the ball just sticks to the rubber.

I have a very worn set that I keep around for when it gets humid.


Edited by cole_ely - 01/19/2023 at 3:57pm
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
blahness View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/18/2009
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 5247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/19/2023 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Valiantsin Valiantsin wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

From my experience, chinese rubbers are the worst to play in humid rooms. It´s simply unplayable.
Dignics 05 keeps well its characteristics in humid conditions. It suffers, of course, but nothing like Hurricane 3 Neo.
I disagree with this strongly.
In humid conditions much better to play topspins with h3neo or hybrids than ordinary tensors.
While there is almost no grip on many of euro tensors including d05 and t05 - har3neo still has grip yet and the ball does not fell down.
It's actually the reason why I switched from playing fastarc g1 and mx-s mx-p to h3neo.

Agreed that hybrids are better than tensors, but D05 is also semi tacky and holds the ball well in moist conditions. T05 is the absolute worst in humid conditions. Tacky rubbers are still better like what you said.
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
Back to Top
Rollko View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 03/11/2020
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 323
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rollko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/20/2023 at 6:15am
I'm suspecting this also has to do with hardness and 'sinking' effect.

With a harder rubber, the sinking effect is lower, the ball dips less into the rubber and the area of the contact point with the top sheet is lower.

With a softer rubber, the sinking effect is greater, the ball dips a bit more into the rubber and the area of the contact point with the top sheet is greater.

Hence to produce the spin, the harder rubber really relies on the tackiness - if there is less tackiness, the ball will skid more easily as the contact point is lower.

A soft rubber relies more on the greater contact point with the topsheet so it would make sense that with equal friction characteristics (e.g. due to humid conditions), the softer rubber would have an upper hand in the spin producing capabilities.


Edited by Rollko - 01/20/2023 at 6:42am
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2023 at 10:46pm
Here is the link to the study. Won't be much help to the OP since it is about the difference between inverted and non-inverted rubbers.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349393178_Table_Tennis_Effect_of_Humidity_on_Racket_Rubber_Tribology
a Coefficient of friction, b normalized stiction and c normalized grip of all combinations of rubber coverings and balls obtained under various humidity. The error bars show standard deviation
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Paradise Inc.
Status: Offline
Points: 467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/23/2023 at 11:04pm
In terms of adapting on the fly to humidity variations and for any given rubber, is it fair to say that the more humidity the more open the paddle at contact, a.k.a humidity forces a game towards hitting? 
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 9151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/24/2023 at 3:05am
More or less. In the case of T05 with S40+ ball, to get the same grip (before slipping occurs) once the relative humidity falls outside the optimal threshold (below or above 45%), you have to hit harder (twice as hard at 75%).

The closer the racket angle, the EVEN harder you have to hit since less force goes into the normal direction (through the ball). Therefore, opening the racket angle is the easiest way to get more grip.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.