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Topmost outer layer=composite. Is it legal ? |
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sifus_brem
Beginner Joined: 09/10/2019 Location: manchester Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Posted: 09/10/2019 at 11:36pm |
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Is it legal to have the outermost layer of a blade (the layer that is used to glue the rubber on) to be say, carbon or arylate ?
Just curious
Edited by sifus_brem - 09/10/2019 at 11:52pm |
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ashishsharmaait
Silver Member Joined: 02/27/2013 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 914 |
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No
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sifus_brem
Beginner Joined: 09/10/2019 Location: manchester Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Can you please show which sub-section of Rule 2.4 The racket , in the ITTF Handbook that defines this ? |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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This rule: 2.4.2 At least 85% of the blade by thickness shall be of natural wood;
an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous
material such as carbon fibre, glass fibre or compressed paper, but
shall not be thicker than 7.5% of the total thickness or 0.35mm,
whichever is the smaller. The word 'within' implies it can't be an outer layer.
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sifus_brem
Beginner Joined: 09/10/2019 Location: manchester Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Ambiguous 50-50
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Silver Server
Beginner Joined: 08/26/2019 Location: DMV Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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I often wonder if the composition will ever change in the future to complete man made materials. To where wooden blades are ancient relics lol.
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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It's coming. That rule will be changed in the near future.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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TT newbie
Gold Member Joined: 11/25/2011 Location: Far Far Away Status: Offline Points: 1391 |
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Apart from being legal or not, what would be the advantages of a composite outer layer?
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Once you aren't restricted to wood, you can use materials with more consistency. You can also use different materials to create a different variety of spin/speed producing effects.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Not ambiguous at all.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Splintering will be a thing of the past. No more griping over joint veneer. More room to play with weight, thickness and stiffness.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Hozuki
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 477 |
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xvt has an external ZLC blade
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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Correct. In the late nineties-early noughties, Butterfly put out a Kreanga blade with an outer composite layer. Referees did not allow the blade. I think that ITTF issued a clarification stating that the Kreanga was illegal for competition. This is from my sometime flaky memory. What I do remember is that the blade was very expensive so several players lost out financially. I suppose that today, Butterfly would have to refund or replace.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Usually
when I have seen the terms inner and outer denoting ZLC blades it is
the positioning of the fiber within the blade. If the fiber is only one
layer under the surface then it is "termed" an outer layer, while if it
is buried deeper under the surface then it is termed and inner layer.
In both cases the fiber is under the wood, just depends on how many
layers of wood are above the fiber. One would be considered outer, 2 or
more layers of wood above the fiber would be an inner positioning. |
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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this blade has that characteristic
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Yes, that is an outer, it has the carbon just under the dark surface ply wood. It is 5 plys of wood and 2 layers of carbon. TT11 has a great photo taken from the side of the blade of the composition, that allow you to see the 3 center plys, the carbon layers and the outer dark surface wood. An interesting pattern they have chosen for the paint on the outer layer of the blade, I'm guessing it would not work with most OX long pips, too dark. I guess it is suppose to look like carbon fiber weave? Looks gray in some pictures and black in others depending on the lighting used.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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a few more
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1dennistt
Silver Member Joined: 03/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 533 |
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Wow! Now these do appear to have the fiber on the outside of the blade. It will be interesting to see if they get ITTF approval. Thanks for the links.
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Donic Waldner World Champion 1989 ZLC (Inner), Donic BlueStorm Pro (Red) Max, ????? (Black) 1.8 mm)
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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ITTF Technical Leaflet T4 states:
2. Blade A very thin layer of lacquer is permitted on the blade, only for the purpose of anchoring wood fibres, thereby facilitating replacement of the racket covering. Anything more than this will be deemed to constitute a layer of plastic, and will not be permitted. This layer may be no more than 0.1 mm thick, and should not hide the wood from sight or touch. It is considered to be part of the blade, rather than part of the thickness of the racket covering. A thin layer of paint or plastic laminate is permitted on an uncovered non-striking side of the blade, for the purpose of having a proper red or black side. |
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NaanAvana
Beginner Joined: 09/11/2019 Location: Frankfurt Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Do blades need ITTF approval ? I was told you don't. All this is very confusing. I am new & am trying to buy a racket and don't want to buy wrong one and get banned by ITTF
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Blades don't need ITTF approval but they have to follow ITTF guidelines stated in Technical Leaflet T4. At sanctioned events they may inspect your racket for compliance with rules on blade and coverings. Rubbers do have to be approved by ITTF.
They could of course revise that leaflet to allow this but I for one doubt they will. Edited by Baal - 09/11/2019 at 9:56pm |
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NaanAvana
Beginner Joined: 09/11/2019 Location: Frankfurt Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thank you . But you keep referring to this Leaflet over & over. Where can I find this leaflet ? Does it cost me to buy from ITTF ? Why does ITTF make things so difficult ? All they need to do is remove the word "within" and add a clause that says " The outermost layers have to be only wood" . As far as I see it now, "within" to me means anything within the racket including outerlayer. I strongly disagree with poster BAAL It is like I need a legalman (attorney ot advocate or barrister as they say) before a new person like me buys a racket and goes to a competition ( only to be banned from ITTF in shame)
Edited by NaanAvana - 09/11/2019 at 10:05pm |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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ITTF has it on their webpage now. It is a free PDF download. Actually I think there are 8 of them. It's not my rule its ITTF so disagree with them if you want. I'm just reporting the current state of affairs.
Search for it and you will find it easily. It's pretty dull reading. As for why ITTF uses such strange wording, it has bugged me for a long time especially when it comes to enforcing serve rules. In the case of the racket it is pretty clear. The rackets and rubbers sold by main TT online vendors will be legal. Aliexpress is very hit or miss but even there most blades you could buy would be legal. Also in Germany where you live there are actual TT shops with experts who can help you buy the right stuff. You live in one of the best places in the world for a TT enthusiast. Clubs everywhere and lots of good players.
Edited by Baal - 09/11/2019 at 11:54pm |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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The wording here is rather straight and clear to me, that "an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous material..."
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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https://ittf.cdnomega.com/eu/2018/12/call-for-blades-4.pdf
Edited by zeio - 09/12/2019 at 6:21am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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guys...... do you understand that the players who play ittf tournaments are in "national team" level?
unless you are in the national team at 15 years old, you probably don't need to worry about what ittf wants.
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NaanAvana
Beginner Joined: 09/11/2019 Location: Frankfurt Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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WRONG If you are from same Association , I think you just enter. If you are from a different national association, that association needs to give you an OK I think but for that I do not think you need to be on National Team |
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NaanAvana
Beginner Joined: 09/11/2019 Location: Frankfurt Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Congratulations , you reposted something from ITTF that was already posted in the beginning of this thread. Still does not explain what "within" means which is open to very subjective interpretation. I could interpret it to mean any layer within the blade meaning including outermost layer
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pingpungpeng
Silver Member Joined: 12/14/2017 Location: chaila Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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I'm not talking about associations. I'm talking about playing level. The people who play ittf tournaments all have this playing level. If you go to an ittf tournament with a poor playing level you will get crushed in the group zone. it's a waste of time and money.
Edited by pingpungpeng - 09/12/2019 at 11:14am |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Knock yourself out. Been there, done that. History repeats itself. http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=39602&PID=487843&title=ma-lins-serve-legal#487843
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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