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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/08/2022 at 6:38am
I got 2 hour in today with LP on MM.

Beat steven in I guess 5 games straight.   He smashed every high ball... got boring picking them up and most he missed or left a spot on my body...  So it seemed LP worked there fine.  

Probably 1.5 hrs with Ken, who I killed in the first games like 11:2 11:4 etc. but later he started changing and I guess I too was practising or trialling other things.  He did get a few games off me more than I think last time.  But I won't put down to I shouldn't used LP.  He was actually scared and hesitant of them and I too was finding new areas I enjoyed using them.  Instead of my usual avoid using LP as much as possible, I was on a use LP to return serve as much as possible and this is an area where I think I haven't really dwelled.

I tended to chop any sidespinny serves better as the afternoon went on.  And Yeah.  I can return most these serves with greater consistancy and following on effect.  Never going to be my modus operandi but it was cool using the strengths that way for a bit.

---

As can be imagined Michael Maze blade makes it a little harder to do everything (nearer the table) apart from get advantages on a good flat slap but I know I should give it more time to get used to it.  There were countless times just putting my hand out to reach a ball was enough to get back on the table at speed from most distances.  It does take a good sense of bat angle to get this right but it felt doable mostly.

The sound of the blade has totally changed with OX LP on one side and the balance is different and I believe it will take a bit more time to get used to speed it can now produce with such little weight again.

The Michael Maze now feels ridiculously fast again.  Don't need anything faster at all.

Overall, I want to try a bit more sponge on the LP side to see if it helps in something like giving a bit more feeling before the ball hitting the blade.

I felt chopping wasn't more difficult with the MM.  If anything the MM just made my inverted side a bit more difficult to get used to than using the Grubba all round.

---

Chopping both wings has felt easy and natural.  I end up putting more time in on my fh chopping mostly though since we play games to win.  I still practise my FH loop kills and they remain generally the same, win some lose some points doing it.




Edited by bozbrisvegas - 05/08/2022 at 7:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2022 at 12:02am
Lots of moisture today at the club.  I fell down twice but was OK.  Moisture is LP styles friend because makes little difference to the contact.

Got a good 3 hours of honing my whole game today.  Even my FH loops have been getting better.  

'New' things for today:

1.  trying to BH punch with LP on higher balls are decadent.  This avenue I want to work on because they are dam fast no spin rockets.  Smashing with FH is just as scary for the opponent.

2.  started serving with the LP just straight fast 'knuckle' balls, is actually very effective especially when waiting for a BH counter drive with inverted.  The serve in itself is hard because most people are used to a different speed/timing.

3. I am working on strategy against players that move back where I can play my strengths.  Toward the end I was controlling the opponent on their FH side, while playing attacking BHs but if they went wide enough on me I could get them a dead LP turned to backspin winding them back into the table before BH attacking again while they are close.  Obviously, attack shots are more effective against someone near the table with less time to adjust.

4.  The thick solid squarish handle of the MM is not ideal for twiddling.  I have sometimes used my freehand to help flip it.  More importantly, my FH has been improving with a more 'orthodox' grip, where I do not strangle the head or put a finger behind it to control FH shots.  This seems to be helping with looping although it takes more confidence it ultimately is the way to get maximum head speed.

---

Overall, as always, LP on one side will always mean I have to develop patience.  I have lost about 40% (10 % at least one can predict which side they hit to and then twiddle)  of my ability to attack whenever.

At the very high end of playing against strong players, where who attacks first wins, this will be hard to stick with.  For now I enjoy the variety.





Edited by bozbrisvegas - 05/12/2022 at 12:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2022 at 11:09pm
Took a month or more off playing.

1.  I was getting a bit tired of playing... lost some of the new mojo somewhere.
2.  I got really sick with a nasty flu and still have lasting cough.
3.  Had other things that needed to be done.
4.  I just enjoyed having some quiet time doing nothing and reflecting on life.

Today, I kind of forced myself to go in and play and I am glad because I enjoyed playing again.

Was good to play when I didn't have aches from playing before.

Surprisingly it only took a bit before I felt like I was playing just as well as I had a couple of months ago.  So time off was good.  

Sadly, the club is shut next week and I will be starting a M-F job next month that will pretty much wipe out most my chances to play.  Still there is the weekends...

Today lost to Eric 2:1.  (lost the third when I was like 8:1 up.)  
Beat Simon 3:2 

Nothing else to report.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2022 at 10:32pm
Yesterday (Saturday)  did the 2-5 session.  Glad I did, because I played a few guys and had a great 3hr session.  

Elusive parts of my game seemed pretty tight.  My FH pendulum serve was back to 100% and my FH 3rd ball attack was very high probability of a finish kill especially down the line for the first hour or so.  (get tired and started going down).  Twiddling game is dam strong.  I dominated everyone yesterday, but had a few weaker games that I lost closely.  

H2 38 is now only slightly tacky and feels perfect like this.  LP side is getting stronger too.  As usual my LP side is my weak side I try to avoid using.  Still I chop, and block pretty well when forced into that postion.  A few people have said the LP makes it hard for them because of the short length I usually return that side with.  (usually for what's already above the table play)  

Am thinking to buy another H2 38 black because it seems to be as good as it gets at this price.  I can't really find a fault with the rubber at all.  It's more technique that let's me down from a distance than anything else.  Never too slow or too anything.

TT heaven for today too hopefully.

EDIT:

So I played today but Sundays are not what I remember at the club.

1. played a kid who was very good but a bit of searcher for who he thinks is the best at the club.  He proved nothing to me during that time that he could be beat me, but was 'tired'.  pff.  Yeah right. whatever.  

2.  I was rejected by the cool Korean club of players who only play each other for some reason.  Same BS.  There's good players in there but they are not so high that I couldn't get close to taking games off any one of them.

3.  Then there is a couple of players in their own fairy land thinking they are so cool that nothing else matters.  One guy in that group in particular, I have beat a couple of times in competition and did not even acknowledge me in the court next to him ( I've always been the first to say hello for ever).  

4.  So I ended up playing an old time player aquaintance Spence and we went 5050 and then 
Good old Dennis just played points.  

And finished off with a weird 'Slavic guy'. I know my accents.  He would not tell me his background but instead told me the suburb he was from locally.  hmmm.  Not sure if this is the new Russian/Ukranian fall out to not say where you from so didnt push him.  But after him only wanting to do diagnonal practise with his occasional not diagonal I started not going diagonal too.  He was great at bashing the ball when I gave it to him where he wanted it.  Odd.  It sucks when you make some fetch a ball to the side you have agreed not to hit the ball to so then I just said play a game.  

Beat him 3:0.  Killed him in the first couple.

But all up, the politics of who is good enough to play with is a load of shit.  Bad day in summary.

TT players often need to pull their fingers out.  

Social skills mofos.










Edited by bozbrisvegas - 06/26/2022 at 3:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/22/2022 at 8:29am
Been playing much less.  Finally said I'd go in no matter what.  

Played some of the best players at the club tonight so was very happy!  Usually I get ignored.  I think that will change in future after beating half of them in matches cleanly, and the other half was competitive.  

Beat Eugene and Mikey both of them 3:1 and in both of them I stopped using my winner in the game I lost which was basically my serve.  

Surprisingly, I still haven't come across anyone at the club that does heavy back spin serves as I do.  And I think that is what causes so much problems winning 50% + because I can do heavy backspin and contrast it with heavy side.

Everyone power looped shots past me much better than me hands down.  So well that I just was so frustrated that I could only counter a very small percentage.  And the pimples did not help.

LP felt mostly my own disadvantage but it is hard to say that cleanly.  Because there were a good percentage of their attacks of LP returns that went long.  I also gave up way too many opportunities to attack before they would.  I just know if I put another heavy rubber on the other side the feeling I have right now in my looping will suffer.  The blade feels perfectly balanced for the final flick in the wrist with FH, BH loops and serves.

I can't go to a lighter blade with heavy rubbers because the shots already are on the slower end.  Everyone says so... (well they forget the times I do fully swing and flies past them)  

Anyway, I found today that the LP sucked for blocking their attacks.  It's fine for slower play if I get angles right.  


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 07/22/2022 at 8:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/23/2022 at 4:06am
Two days in a row.  Played in equal form to yesterday, GREAT!

Changed the Friendship OX LP to MILKWAY Neptune 0.7m.  I preferred the couple of grams lighter but feel I am pretty happy with the whole balance still.

I think it suits me more.  There were a few odder effects that I didn't understand but on the whole, having a bit of sponge and newer/a bit grippier LPs is a bit more logical for my inverted rubber type of brain escpecially when I constantly twiddle.  On the most part I felt more control in chopping and a bit better at the rare back hand punch with them for slightly higher balls nearer the net.

I feel like every aspect of my game has levelled up recently, and my loop kills are really starting to click.

I wonder if it is because of my now 2 weeks of sobriety?  I'm dropping weight a bit more and after the first week of withdrawals where my mind was totally *&^%ed, I am starting to get clearer, and just need table tennis so much more than before.  Doing slightly more exercise than before too so it all helps just get the bloody feet moving before taking a shot and then moving more after that.

My improved FH kill might just be that I have really changed my grip.  I am now holding the blades loosely and lower so that I get a hell of a lot more action on to the ball.  It's an extreme FH grip that kind of makes it hard to do anything with a ball that goes to my BH by surprise.  I often end up going into a kind windshield wiper FH on my BH side that actually works well as a block.  I'd say I have an extreme BH grip too that works similar windshiled wipery.  Both of them work well close to the body but if the ball goes wide then I do swith to the opposite side of the blade.  This is not ideal TT style but it's good enough for me, and works well with the contrasting LP which I avoid as much as possible.

Twiddling really adds a different dimension to mental strategy.  Especially, on service return, I try to predict which way they will serve and play slight mind games/fake signposting of which side I want them to serve to.  

Anyhow, had some amazing rallies from long distance with a great variety of shots in each.  Yeeha.


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 07/23/2022 at 4:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2022 at 4:23am
3 days in a row!  But my body just wouldn't allow me to swing as much.  So performance in most departments is dropping.  Still one area that I feel like I am not getting worse at is touch.  

Spence actually complemented me on that (nobody ever has in the past) saying that my touch was very tricky, adding in particular the complexity that LP added for him and the other opponents we played in doubles.

I really enjoyed about 20 minutes against Spence just doing the old far from the table looping stuff.  I just don't get enough practise in that to figure out all my angles and for chopping.

Everyone just wants to go straight into matches.  Which is cool but not when I really want to just work on stuff.  Beat a Korean guy I have never met before 3:1.  I asked him to keep playing but it seemed to ignore me until he returned and said new match.  LOL... For the second 'match' I just served simple topspin and stood back for service return trying to practise my defensive stuff.  Yeah he beat me but I didn't try to win my serve or attacking.  

Dennis the LP only guy, is always great practise for me.  It's ugly to watch but man LP vs LP at times is probably the best practise I can get.  It's dam hard to train the angles and just fine motor skills when there is a slow no spin ball.

Played Kayne first time (no matches) and that was great too because I really enjoy practising service return with LP slightly sideish chops.  It takes time to work out what LP does against various side spin serves. 

I don't think I have ever gotten very good with LP and I feel now that most of my attacking inverted shots are nearing a more acceptable level it's a good time to give the LP side a bit more of a chance to improve.  

As a twiddler though I find it imperative not to confuse myself.

Rule 1 inverted rubber is for going over the ball = rolling it back / looping 

Rule 2. LP is for open face: blocking and softly hitting forward against underspin, to under the ball/chopping

I refuse to practise looping or driving with LP because it will ruin my inverted side strokes (there is not enough time in TT to think)

There are a few cross over points that work OK.  An occasional push with inverted can mix it up.  Smashing/punching higher balls with LP is fine.  Actually smashing is sometimes easier with LP. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2022 at 9:41pm
Why did you switch to LPs when you have a good BH though....Wouldn't that just rob you of your strongest strokes? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2022 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Why did you switch to LPs when you have a good BH though....Wouldn't that just rob you of your strongest strokes? 

It does 'rob' me of shots sometimes for sure.  I'm guessing about 25% of a total robbing. Ouch

But I'm still enjoying the darkside and having something novel (for a while).

---

I'll try to break down my mind frame as a twiddler, starting with service return.  Usually, if I am trying to win:

I cover probably 70% of serves with my backhand in inverted mode.  I am ready to kill it with my backhand if possible.  (usually 2 steps to the right is enough to cover my fh side with my BH)

Some servers will of course go down my FH side, but I do mix up which side I am ready to loop the hell out of the ball.  Guessing roughly 30% of the time I ready for a FH return no matter which side they are serving to or down the middle.  The only catch with stepping left, is not being fast enough to cover the table if they might block a weaker fh.  Hence I usually receive with BH.

---

Once in rally mode, especially once we step back from the table, I usually twiddle to use my inverted for the side which is most open they'd probably aim to or I just plain predict that's their body angle etc.  For the roughly 30% of the time I get it wrong, here have something rarer, a chop/block or a reverse of whatever weirdness you gave me.

---

Currently, that 30% of giving myself a bit of a handicap probably results in more like 20% of a disadvantage because I'm still going to miss a few with bh inverted and they are going to miss a few
returns because of the LP weirdness.  

---

If I were to stick to LP and give it a year or so, I think the margins should improve for me still.  Of course there is nothing like using your strengths as much as possible, but I am not at the stage of my TT anymore.  LP is just another fun dimension that forces me to chop.  Chopping is something I have almost never ever done unless I have slapped LP on.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/26/2022 at 5:34am
haha I tried LPs for a day and it was so frustrating not being able to chiquita or loop Dead and receiving long serves is not that easy with LPs either, there's no inherent safety in the topspin arc. I wish I could receive short serves exclusively with LPs tho, they are just so, so forgiving and still pose quite a big danger to the opponent due to the weird spin 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/27/2022 at 11:35pm
Had to look back through my post to see how long I played with LP this stint.  Less than 3 months, and today I just got sick and tired of it.  Played Eric and lost 2:1 but a lot of just frustrating unforced LP shots that went wildly off target.  I then pulled out my Ishlion which has Hurricane 8 and the old D09c and played about 3 hours only with it.  Played Eric again after playing others and beat him 3:1 I think.  (something like that)  I mean clearly even without being used to the bat I still had both my wings more dangerous.  

I also played Jeff who is just a dam strong player.  11:9 11:9 11:6?  anyways they were dam close but when playing someone this good I need my backhand to be more consistant in particular.  This faster blade is great from a distance but I was sending either long or into the net near the table.

What's more fun?  hmmm.  I guess I just got tired of the chopping and missing?  When I can defend so much better away from the table consistantly lower and faster with double inverted.

Surprisingly, I adjusted pretty dam fast to H8 and carbon on the forehand.  My noticable weak point was this OLD d09c was really lower throw compared to my Chinese tacky rubber BH that I have gotten used to.  Great for precise punching but just not arcing enough the rest of the time.

I'll be honest I do miss being able to punch and drive a bit on the backhand.  So I think T05 very soon.  I deserve it after not drinking for almost 3 weeks.  REWARD myself haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/28/2022 at 9:30am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Had to look back through my post to see how long I played with LP this stint.  Less than 3 months, and today I just got sick and tired of it.  Played Eric and lost 2:1 but a lot of just frustrating unforced LP shots that went wildly off target.  I then pulled out my Ishlion which has Hurricane 8 and the old D09c and played about 3 hours only with it.  Played Eric again after playing others and beat him 3:1 I think.  (something like that)  I mean clearly even without being used to the bat I still had both my wings more dangerous.  

I also played Jeff who is just a dam strong player.  11:9 11:9 11:6?  anyways they were dam close but when playing someone this good I need my backhand to be more consistant in particular.  This faster blade is great from a distance but I was sending either long or into the net near the table.

What's more fun?  hmmm.  I guess I just got tired of the chopping and missing?  When I can defend so much better away from the table consistantly lower and faster with double inverted.

Surprisingly, I adjusted pretty dam fast to H8 and carbon on the forehand.  My noticable weak point was this OLD d09c was really lower throw compared to my Chinese tacky rubber BH that I have gotten used to.  Great for precise punching but just not arcing enough the rest of the time.

I'll be honest I do miss being able to punch and drive a bit on the backhand.  So I think T05 very soon.  I deserve it after not drinking for almost 3 weeks.  REWARD myself haha.

D09c requires a lot of energy to engage the sponge, and is just no fun to play on the BH imo.... D05/T05 is really the bomb on the BH imo! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2022 at 2:20am
Yeah blahness, I am sure I would not touch 09c on BH brand new.  I am contemplating doing away with anything dwell based and for sure not tacky at all.  BH for sure I want something that will punch fast and still be okish for looping.  FH I am not decided if I will stay with Tacky.  T05 has been my fav for both sides longer than any rubber.

Tacky Chinese rubber = can create more spin out of nothing than any other rubber.

BUT

the reality is what most reviewers dont really show on their YT vids, 

We are often not in the position to contact the ball with a full stroke.  The amount of time I get jammed by an attack and do a 'get it back shot' is probably 25% of rallies.  (I'm guessing)  

Chinese rubbers are dam slow unless you swing into them and then they trump euro because they have got the full range of super slow to super spinny allowing high powered shots.

But when I reach/fishing a ball or goes my elbow I can very rarely return the ball with Chinese unless I am carrying the hammer of the gods like the primorac (and that's too heavy for me).

---

So I have for the last day or so been researching but I keep going around in circles.

1.  My ishion with 2 x T05 is my perfect combo, but I'm not sure I want to carry that weight around and something 90% as good but 50% cheaper to maintain is fine with me.  But no lighter softer slower blade has ever felt right with T05.

2.  I wonder about setting up double euro/jap style rubbers on my versal.  Just something that loops well, fastish, spinnish.

MXP or rasanter 47 looks great but I doubt harder/heavy rubbers would play well on the balsa.  

I'm thinking about Rasanter R42 a bit softer possibly to keep the blade balance a little better.  They should be punchy and loopable.  I probably buy two different hardnesses at $60 a pop from the club.  Actually thinking to do it tonight.  







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/29/2022 at 7:52am
After umming and ahrrinnng at the club, I finally decided to just buy one MXP.  RED MAX. $60

Dam the sponge looks and feels like tenergy when gluing it down replacing the old 09c on the ishlion.

Sadly, there was no one to play much tonight.  I only got about 15 minutes in with the coach of the place.

Here's something I some how totally forgot.  The last time I used a new T05 was with celluoid balls, so I won't really be able to compare it properly.

There's not much to say that people already don't know about MXP.  Less spin, more direct than what I remember t05 to be bla bla.  

It punches well on the carbon.  And I didn't get in enough time to practise looping, but I know the window feels smaller to getting them on.  Felt easy to block and drive and fish the ball.   

Hurricane 8 felt much easier to loop but a bit slower...  Glad I didn't buy two of these types of rubbers.

I won't make many more conclusions till I have had a good chance to tame the catapult in this.  MXP is its own kind of genre to get to learn.  I did pull off a couple clean winning loops so will sleep well tonight.

---

Also I must say I have only started playing with the ishlion H8 in the last couple of days and I kind of rediscovering that the H8 is actually not that bad at all for fishing and attacking from a distance.  Makes me realise just how important finding the right blade is, how much the blade makes a difference.

CAn't wait to get more time in and see which side will suit the MXP more....   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/30/2022 at 5:23am
Got a good 3 hours mostly with Ken and a bit with Dennis today.

One conclusion, I need to decide seriously if MXP is BH FH or something similar on both because I was trialling it on both sides and I was starting to ruin both my wings by constantly changing between it and the H8.  

I'm going to try to just make comparisons to H8 here since that is all I got for sure.  I'm just noting which is better:

backhand opening loop against serve = MXP (most pleasantly surprised by this!)
backhand looping away from the table = H8

punching/smashing = MXP
serving almost everything = H8 
serving long and fast with top = MXP
plain Blocking = equal in slightly different ways
anything to do with sidespin = H8
pushing = H8

FH receing serve/opening up = H8 (but this is probably because I have not given MXP enough time to adjust... still think Chinese rubber is more predictable (not much of a catapult) and my FH fast attacks  is still my weak point.

FH counterlooping moderate arm speed = MXP (feels a bit like tenergy 05 and the higher arc is something I need to adapt again too after using chinese rubbers for a year)
FH counterlooping all out kill = probably H8 but I still am not great at it...

fishing = equal on the carbon blade MXP= a bit easier not affected by spin and is faster but H8= a bit trickier sidespins possible in things  like lobs

---

Other notes:

MXP high density is weird in that it seems to positively dampen the ball and take off much of the in coming spin  (especially in blocking) and although high amounts of spin and speed can be created I would argue it creates a greater variety of more deceptive spin and speed ratios in relation to arm action.  

H8 is just plain, put in the effort and that's how much spin/speed will be on the ball  from brush, to deep penetration.  

---

I will probably stay H8 FH and MXP (or another similar $60 Euro rubber) BH

I'm not enthused about the overall weight of this set up, but the higher density of both rubbers is what makes them so stable without the bottom out effect that can suddenly change the ball angle in shots and blocks.

The only time I bottom out either of the rubbers is in punching and smashing (some rarer blocking).  Which doesn't matter.

I reckon I could increase spin on serves with a softer chinese rubber, not sure if I'd lose out in other departments though.
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Pondered my last day and post a long time.  After more research, I was ready to buy another MXP and put both on the balsa blade today.  

I went to the club and just started playing with the Ishlion H8 and MXP a bit before buying another sheet.

I came to the conclusion, no, why would I bother going a slower blade when I at least find I was mastering quite quickly the MXP on the BH especially with it on the very fast carbon blade.

It's a game plan I haven't really played for a long time.  High speed and not worry about looping everything because just driving and punching corners is an absolute delight with this set up.  It's dam fun loop killing from a distance and hooking high powered reaching returns in a defensive position.

SO, blade and BH hand rubber I am happy with.  My FH has been getting worse again the last couple of days, and that is what I must now train as much as possible again.  

For sure I don't like MXP on FH, since I find it worse than Chinese rubber.  Still there might be another non Chinese rubber for my FH to find, but it can't be this much uncontrollable catapult.  And I want it to be more grippy too, because I found MXP was not catching the ball enough for me on late FHs compared to the tack of the H8.  It feels pretty bouncy at times in pushing and serving although I'm sure it is tamable if given some dedicated time.  

---

Beat a guy easily with brand new 09cs/on an ALC blade.  Not sure why people buy such expensive equipment when their level doesn't match that well...  He good do all the strokes and shots 'decently' but they were all easy to block because it seemed rather slow.  

Beat the Iranian guy 2:1 (the last one he won, I stopped doing my hardest bh serve,  he was getting visibly upset and admitted it after I aced him in a hat trick (slowish serves) + many others that weren't aces but dumped in the net.

---

So my serves and backhand is at about 90% of where I ever got to (I imagine about another year I should get to 95%, doubt I can to 100% because I'm aging, my eyes just don't spot the ball as well in particular.)  FH attacking is still lagging again (haven't been focussed on it as much as working out using a Euro or J rubber again)


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 07/31/2022 at 4:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2022 at 5:26am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

Pondered my last day and post a long time.  After more research, I was ready to buy another MXP and put both on the balsa blade today.  

I went to the club and just started playing with the Ishlion H8 and MXP a bit before buying another sheet.

I came to the conclusion, no, why would I bother going a slower blade when I at least find I was mastering quite quickly the MXP on the BH especially with it on the very fast carbon blade.

It's a game plan I haven't really played for a long time.  High speed and not worry about looping everything because just driving and punching corners is an absolute delight with this set up.  It's dam fun loop killing from a distance and hooking high powered reaching returns in a defensive position.

SO, blade and BH hand rubber I am happy with.  My FH has been getting worse again the last couple of days, and that is what I must now train as much as possible again.  

For sure I don't like MXP on FH, since I find it worse than Chinese rubber.  Still there might be another non Chinese rubber for my FH to find, but it can't be this much uncontrollable catapult.  And I want it to be more grippy too, because I found MXP was not catching the ball enough for me on late FHs compared to the tack of the H8.  It feels pretty bouncy at times in pushing and serving although I'm sure it is tamable if given some dedicated time.  

---

Beat a guy easily with brand new 09cs/on an ALC blade.  Not sure why people buy such expensive equipment when their level doesn't match that well...  He good do all the strokes and shots 'decently' but they were all easy to block because it seemed rather slow.  

Beat the Iranian guy 2:1 (the last one he won, I stopped doing my hardest bh serve,  he was getting visibly upset and admitted it after I aced him in a hat trick (slowish serves) + many others that weren't aces but dumped in the net.

---

So my serves and backhand is at about 90% of where I ever got to (I imagine about another year I should get to 95%, doubt I can to 100% because I'm aging, my eyes just don't spot the ball as well in particular.)  FH attacking is still lagging again (haven't been focussed on it as much as working out using a Euro or J rubber again)

I reckon I'll go your setup haha - very fast carbon blade + Chinese rubbers on FH and maybe MXP on BH. Incredibly disappointed with Butterfly longevity and QC this time, don't wanna give them my business for some time.


Edited by blahness - 07/31/2022 at 5:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2022 at 11:56pm
Got to the club this morning intending to buy a hybrid rubber if they had it.  No K3, no Razka Z.  My back up plan was probably EL-S = nope none... last option I had in mind MX-S.  And I am glad I "chose" it.

So there you have it MX-S FH and MX-P BH.

Got in about 1.5 hours continuous play with Eric.  I took in my PVC pipe picker upperer full of balls so we could train more pick up less.  And swing and miss a lot more not worrying about it.

There are times when MX-S plays very dam similar to Tenergy 05.  Attacking loops from 1-3 metres back when the sponge is fully engaged with a final click into the carbon ishlion which is in that magical zone.

Then there are numerous times it plays very differently because the major difference for me between the MX series the lack of surface grip.  The sponges are 100% butterfly tenergy spring sponge quality in my opinion.  And the pips structures and even the softness of the topsheet is its own piece of work... but it is the surface that really makes it different and I would see non linear in the reaction to spin coupled with catapult!. Without catapult it wouldn't be a problem.  I would also argue that it seems that the catapult is never a problem in flat shots but only when the bat is angled. 

I would put Chinese rubber and tenergy at the same spot on the scale for being predictable in looping from soft looping to hard looping.  Where you dig in a little or a lot you get the same predictable direction and even increase in speed with tenergies catapult.  

The MX series are very different.  They demand a full depth engagement to do what you expect, a half stroke/depth into the sponge will either go into the net or off the end.  Now I say this after using them for under 10 hours but that is the general area I will have to adapt to.  

Although that sounds negative (mostly is for me)  it does give a new area of play to utilise.  The advantages can be once you get used to it:

A much more open face for blocking and punching is more chances of going on then closing the racket.
Non-reactivity to incoming spin also means you can tap and roll back service spin weirdness you can't with spinnier equipment.  
And of course smashing.

I did experiment with the MXS on BH too and although I like T05 more on my BH and similarly MXS, I noticed that the results for the opponent were much easier and predictable to counter.  

So although there is not much different between P and S it is an easy choice to keep P on BH and S on FH.  

Everything is a bit more predictable but easier to use is better for my FH.  

With S, I can generate heavier backspin probably similar to the HUrricane for serves, but they do go longer off the table for now.  So I will have to work on my short serves again.

After much training, I beat Eric 2:1.  Surprisingly, the first 1 I lost with too much air swinging on my BH (WTF)  I then played the whole next game trying to use my FH for everything and killed him.  The last game was similar, until it was like 10:2, and I again tried to win with my bh and he made a big come back but little to late.  

I really didn't expect my FH to wake up so quickly.  It is so much better than with the Chinese rubber except for the soft loops which I need time to adjust to not relying on the tacky surface.

It will take some time to train out of using Chinese rubbers on both wings for sure.  But it should take less time than it did to get used to using Chinese rubbers.

---

Final conclusion and thoughts on why I changed from Chinese?  Probably the same as why I used LP and then stopped using them.  I am in it for the fun.

Using some of the fastest rubbers on the market on one of the fastest blades on the market puts a huge smile on my face when I get a couple of metres back from the table.  

As I always say, calling my set up offensive+ is totally wrong.  I love fast stuff because it is so dam easy to defend with.  Open your blade and punch / drive the ball back is a breeze. 

---

Although I was thinking to use a lighter/softer blade for these 'heavier/harder' rubbers, I just don't think they would play right.  I believe much of the speed comes of the blade still (not just the catapult) it's like the catapult angle kind of matches the speed drive or something weird like that.  And if it isn't that then it just feels like it needs final hard finish to click off carbon after all the dwell in the sponge.

I do have some slower lighter hard blades that might be worth a try later.




Edited by bozbrisvegas - 08/02/2022 at 2:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 3:13am
Played 2 hours again with Eric but this time I counted games for half the time.  Beat him 7:3, so no drastic change using euro 2 sides.

I was expecting gradual improvement getting used to the rubbers, but I reckon my shot consistancy has actually deteriorated on both FH and BH.  DAM.  

Of course we can expect our performance to generally fluctuate so I shouldn't be too hard on myself using new equipment but it really didn't go well.  

Trying to be more aggresive to utilize the rubber meant more airswinging and greater "miss by a lot" shots.  Playing carefully is equally worse because you just can't engage the spin potential like that.

I actually recorded the play and I was surprised how slow much of the play closer to the table actually was compared to watching my shots back when I used to play more often.

As you can imagine this set up all plays well from a distance but is quite wrong at the table.  

Reason 1: to use the speed and spin you have to swing into it and in real play you just don't have the luxury of the big back swing like in training to the same point.  

Reason 2:  Similarly the weight of the whole set up is drag after the first shot.  Recovering to do it again especially if you have landed something of speed is hard to recover to do it again.

Hence I oddly think a softer/lighter = easier to penetrate set up would be more advantagous.  

Also, my current set up plays poorly on balls dropped lower than the table unless far from the table.  I just struggle to find how to return them because there doesn't seem to be enough grip in the slow end of the game.  The Chinese rubber easily can roll the ball back all the way to the ground from a metre from the table... The low trajectory resulting from engaging the full sponge of MX will shoot straight over the opponents head before getting it onto the table.

I'll be honest, the evolution  MX series is great but there is grey area that it really sucks at.  I think the softer versions might solve most of this, but then they'd be going into weird bottoming out territory and more bouncy at the low end.

----

I know I need to give this more time, and I will probably try them out on a slower blade.  

---

I am already missing my Chinese rubbers!  And I believe the strengths of both Chinese and Euro will be better when used back to back on the same blade.  Mixing up the speed and spin for the opponent.

---

I'll give the double Euro a month and if I find that I'm not adapting to it, it's going on two blades on the BH where I enjoy the punch more.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 4:00am
This is what many ppl don't talk about - the huge benefit of having a spinny af rubber with good sponge - the confidence you get when you sink the ball into the sponge and rub it hard - you know that the shot is making it in because of the sheer amount of spin which will pull the ball back down hard into the table. This is the real advantage of the Chinese rubbers, as well as Dignics.

Edited by blahness - 08/03/2022 at 4:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/03/2022 at 10:52pm
After buying these 2 rubbers I can't justify the hybrid rubber for a while.  I do miss that confidence that there is enough spin to bring the ball down Blahness.

---

Went out to Radi's place and played with the MX rubbers on the Versal blade.  Beat her 12:4 in games.  That's by far the widest gap in scores since my return to TT.

1.  A bit more control
2. Punching and smashing is decent
3.  Looping from a distance is still fast 
4.  Recovery times are better.

I basically attacked everything if at all possible of going on.  Sure I missed a lot of shots and the rubbers still play weirdly at times but when they go on THEY REALLY GO ON.  

I barely pushed because it is easy to flat tap a ball and move back in case they have a go at it, and get into the game from 2 metres back.

---

I played my usual way of nearish the table ( a habit I'm not sure why I got into.)

But the last couple of games I just served faster mild topspin as you might in training to warm up rally like and then moved back 2 metres even if she mildy drove.  It makes sense as long as they don't go wide on me.  From here I feel the set up just starts shining for looping hard and having time to keep looping their blocks.  The annoying thing is recovering forward on net balls.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2022 at 7:17am
Played only bout an 1.5 hrs tonight against the only guy waiting round for a partner, he was rusty but at least could return the ball and drive hard if I made a mistake.  

I also took a blade I would say roughly as slow as the one I'm using but with double hurricane 2s.  

I played 2 games with this because I wanted to remember how Chinese rubbers were...  Sure control in the short game was good, my back hand was pretty good,  but clearly nowhere near as dangerous as the shots with MX.  I was hoping my forehand would prove to be more consistant and loop attacking but it was only at the slow end and I just don't have Wang Liqin mechanics or 10 layers of speed glue in my H2 to make it worth using on an all wood blade.

I didn't lose a game to this guy but I clearly was way more dangerous on both wings with MX.  

hmmmmmm.... The only way I would use Chinese is on a fast blade because I was struggling to get the ball on the table after using MX.  

Anyway I went back to using MX for the rest of the time, and I feel like I am improving/adapting slowly.  

The topsheet felt drier today = grippier in fine brush to return short low no spin... something that was bugging me over the last few days where it just seemed to be a hint of oily slippery...  

Here's another idea I'm playing with:  

It's no so much the spin that is troubling the opponent (in a lot of the shots that MX kind of steers you toward), but the speed at which it pierces into the sponge of the opponent.

Well also just zings past so dam fast there is no time to see it....  

Anyhow I also spent a bit more time playing with S on backhand and P on FH.... I kind of feel both ways work especially a few steps back from the table... 

---

So is there a better logic?

1.  Tonight I was kind of leaning toward the idea that P is easier to reach out to fish a wide FH return (being faster and feeling fractionally less dense)

2.  S feels a bit denser and feels better and brushing over the ball and my BH tends to be where 70% of people serve to and probably why it has gotten better with all the action it gets.

---

I'm glad I have both instead one of them on both sides.  

3.  P feels much better to BH punch.

---

When I get the catapult working in the favourable direction it really is hard to beat this rubber.

I do feel the hardness of the sponge of both is probably overkill 80% of the time.  I wouldn't want to go to softest of the series but a few degrees softer I reckon would be much easier to play with.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2022 at 9:15am
I guess yeah the optimal setup these days probably looks like gonna be reasonable speed blades (wood with some carbon layers) + hybrid/grippy rubbers or boosted Hurricanes, or fast af blades + Chinese tacky rubbers. 

Which tacky rubber do you reckon has the best bang for the buck at the moment and is spinny af?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/05/2022 at 4:58pm
Long lasting tackiness probably goes to the older generation, and as long as you keep them covered when not used, they last a long time and in my opinion play better when most of the tack has lowered so that it only engages when getting into the sponge.  Otherwise I find when I swing a loop the ball doesn't want to let go... great for underspin but not for top.  

H2 clips the top of the net so much.  

H8 some how feels a bit more hybridy (but I hate the newer sponge varieties)  poor adherence of the topsheet.

I reckon follow the massess Blahness.  H3 (and if you aren't gonna boost it, get neo)  

Have a look at the TT review of these guys that all love H3.  

I'd be leaning toward the Z  _ I love high thow rubbers (even though some reviews make it look slow, I reckon they didn't put it on a carbon blade....)




Edited by bozbrisvegas - 08/05/2022 at 5:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/06/2022 at 3:52am
Saturday 2-5pm is the best day to walk in play lots of people at the club.

Beat stephen in multiple games.  He plays like me kill it or be killed.

Ui doesnt speak a word of English.  I beat him last time clean, but this time for the life of me I stuggled at first lost a game to his super slow Chinese rubber, but he could serve tight and control the game and still hit awkwardly slow winners (possible!), I then smashed him a few more games until I felt a muscle kind of get sore in the back of my shoulder arm from all the wild looping constantly....  He won the match by a margin but I was focused on playing my weaknesses.

I beat Ken in more games then the couple he got off me (usually gets none)  but same thing I was nursing my arm for much of them, but hats off to him he played well, and I enjoy long counter looping rallies and a lot lobbing by me.

I was exhausted after 2.75 hrs but gave the LP bh Christin guy... a few games.  Beat him in the first and then I just got bored of trying to win and just went in to use the last of my energy and wow, I missed a hell of a lot of shots.  (I beat him long ago clean games)  but yeah have to have a strategy and could be bothered with winning when I was that tired....   If anything I learnt I shouldn't play when I'm tired.  He beat me the following games easily to some pretty ordinary stuff.

---

So yeah I am back to start where using rubbers that demand constant looping and swing on both wings just kills my shoulder and my elbow was starting to ache too.  

Not sure but I kind of felt toward the end a sense of boredom playing.  Even had some great fun rallies with Ken in particular.  Dunno.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/07/2022 at 11:14pm
Had Sunday off to let my arm recover, felt better today and went played Radi.  

1 hr not counting, 2nd hour she counted game scores.  12:0.  

So if she is a gauge then I am playing much better these days.  I must have FH killed 90% of her serves to my FH side.  I just found the right angle, brush graze, arm speed/ acceleration to do it repeatedly, and she just mixing up with backspin at all so I felt I could pretty much do the same shot at the end of the table all day long and not get tired.  I should remember that I was using my heavy FH grip, which also includes the middle finger where the index finger goes usually.  Making it easy to keep the blade very horizontal.  Since my backhand is always more adaptable I can recover to it with a weaker return if necessary.

In the first hour I was also using my H8 on Ishlion trying to work out if I want to change to it for FH.  

I think I keep coming to the conclusion that the H8 is probably equal to the MX-S  as a FH rubber.  

They both have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.  

Not sure which way to go.  I tend to think I should stay with what is more fun = the ability to smash, loop and fish more easily from a distance = MXS...

Variety to the BH and table control = H8  

---

Fun = spectacular
happiness = winning

---

Winning spectacularly = Thumbs Up


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/08/2022 at 11:15pm
Played a few people today. Mostly played Eric to start off with and probably the best gauge.  

I beat him about 7:1 in games.  So again an improvement this time and clearly said it: I am looping everything fast and not giving him a chance to get in apart from blocking.  I think the more I play like this: simple strategy, loop everything at all possible, the better I'm getting at it and getting used to the rubbers.  

I really feel my distance game in particular fh counter looping has skyrocketed in consistancy!  There is nothing I feel like changing about my equipment from far away.   

The other thing I have really really being enjoying is smashing through spin.  This is one thing I have to totally train more until I ingrain it in my head that I can now do it with out tacky rubber.  I was so into the habit of trying to side of the ball smash with Chinese over the last year of playing...  Now I am totally happy to try to get the opponent mistakenly push a topspin or no spin serve disguised as back spin.  

FH 3rd ball is starting to comeback to where it should be.  Main modus operandi.

---

Played two games with Hugo a Korean guy who I think is of a higher level.  His FH in particular when he gets a go at it on my poorer service return is unstoppable (since I have not a chance to play many short servers for a while)  Still I was up 7:1 in game 1 and game 2 I was up 11:10.... lost both... dunno why I bother getting nervous and then straying from the style I played against Eric.  Probably outta respect?  Nah, I think more so the unknown possibilities that you just aren't waiting on well.

---

Finally played Shaun.  I won the majority of games but he got two off me... I think I was tiring by the end and just started losing the laser like precision my eyes need to see the ball and then find that exact loop point.  Still lots of fun rallies...   

My arm is killing me, but I reckon it will strengthen the longer I keep constantly looping... (hopefully nothing like RSI develops)  My fingers have been getting a bit more arthritisy / stiff hoping it goes away.

---

All up I feel more positive about playing then I did a few days ago.  

---

Table tennis I believe requires belief.  I think I have started believing in my shots, and started surprising myself when they go where I remember they used to.  Fast spinny on the table from all distances.

I'm still missing a lot where I feel I know what I did wrong... I'm getting this angle and body position slowly more correct with every time I play with these rubbers that are more similar to the equipment I used to use.

---

I can see myself sticking with this set up in a month when the trial is over.  I am thinking still to trial the Chinese rubber on FH and play a week with it against all my regulars with the same mentality, and see what kind of results I find though.   In case there is factor that is being missed here.


---

All up rocknroll!


Edited by bozbrisvegas - 08/08/2022 at 11:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/09/2022 at 1:28am
Haha looks like you rejected the dark side and came back to fun aggressive TT. Tongue Powerlooping is just fun af, and the cat and mouse game before you end the point with a killer powerloop is just oh so rewarding too! Much better than the passive game waiting for your opponents to make a mistake (ugh at players with that kind of game!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 hours 14 minutes ago at 11:25pm
Yes for sure I have lost interest in LP for sure.  

Today I started out with the long distance FH and BH and everything was great as it has been recently.

Once started playing points, WTF its like all my lengths were overshooting again.  Most of the 3 hours I was very inconsistant and just couldn't improve it much.  It can be so frustrating when I just want to get the ball on the table to win the point and it bounces off the bat longer.  

I still managed to beat Shaun and Simon quite easily....  but the loop everything mentality faded once I kept overshooting so much.  

I'm also a bit frustrated with the lowered amount of spin on serves (even longer ones)... I still can force easy points / errors but not as much before.

I was focussing a bit to try to avoid looping higher balls and try smash more but I was mostly crappy in my mechanics.  I feel like I'm a baseball pitcher coiling up way too much for the smash, overcomplicating what should be a straight no wrist , less elbow finishing smash.

---

Although I love MXS and MXP from a distance, I reckon when I'm ready for a new rubber, I'd probably go the EL-s a fraction softer and slower to get the ball on the table while I'm nearer the table more easily.  
TSP Versal
fh: MX-S max
bh: MX-P max
Watch me playing TT
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