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USATT Introduces New Rating Access Subscription

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 1:03pm
This is going to cause them more ill-will than any revenue increase they hope to see could possibly be worth.  It will force leagues to come up with another solution for ratings, which removes another thing from the value of a USATT membership in the process.

I know we lost control of the USATT years ago, but the last year has simply been one silly thing after another.  We have no more influence over what the USATT does than we do over the ITTF and their silly rule changes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 1:26pm
Trying to find silver lining in this: folks will be less obsessed about ratings, since these are now very hard to access.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

This is going to cause them more ill-will than any revenue increase they hope to see could possibly be worth.  It will force leagues to come up with another solution for ratings, which removes another thing from the value of a USATT membership in the process.

I know we lost control of the USATT years ago, but the last year has simply been one silly thing after another.  We have no more influence over what the USATT does than we do over the ITTF and their silly rule changes.

If league director is member then won't he be able to find the ratings for use each league night?  

Or are they going to stop all processing of league ratings unless person being rated is USATT member?

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:00pm
The league director has the league ratings for all players in the league.
He just has to find another way to communicate the league ratings to all league players.
================

Most of the TT community folks think that this change, in the long-run, will decrease USATT's revenue and fewer new players to play sanctioned tournament.  Will definitely hurt USATT financially.
----------------------------

A few years down the road when USATT experiences the financial pinch from this ill-conceived action, USATT will have to raise the USATT membership fee and one-time tournament-pass fee - that will cause many more to drop off as USATT members and fewer new players to play tournaments. Then USATT will have to raise both fees again.

This will be a downward spiral without an end.


Edited by skip3119 - 02/05/2020 at 4:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 4:39pm
USATT's plan is to decrease membership fee to increase the membership count.   I encourage everyone to read pages 55-57 of "December 15, 2019 - Board of Directors Meeting Minutes" (a PDF document).  This is where Virginia talks about membership/ratings access.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

USATT's plan is to decrease membership fee to increase the membership count.   I encourage everyone to read pages 55-57 of "December 15, 2019 - Board of Directors Meeting Minutes" (a PDF document).  This is where Virginia talks about membership/ratings access.

"USATT's plan is to decrease membership fee to increase the membership count."

That's the right direction to go.  But current action, USATT Introduces New Rating Access Subscription,
will lead USATT just to the opposite direction. 

Decrease membership fee?  Forget about it.  LOL
==============================
Bottomline:  USATT Introduces New Rating Access Subscription.
                   USATT thinks it will increase its revenue and cause more new players to play tournaments
                   TT communiy thinks that the effect is just the opposite.  (There is a poll, the voting is 16 to zero)
                   The TT community thinks USATT's revenue will decrease and fewer players will play tournament - in the long run.

               







Edited by skip3119 - 02/05/2020 at 6:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2020 at 6:07pm
I just went to the simplycompete site wanted to see how a 1100 rated team member might fare in the Rockford Team tournament, there were so many blocked ratings it was annoying to use.  And scroll functioning now had a bug no matter what page i selected it usually went back to the first page of listed players.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dchow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2020 at 1:11pm
how are we supposed to sign up for tournaments now if we can't see our rating lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patrickhrdlicka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2020 at 5:09pm
You can see your tournament rating on Omnipong. "Your eligibility for this event...."

Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 02/06/2020 at 5:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Gen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 1:59am
I dislike this new ratings subscription as well.

I think it should be public, like it has always been (at least since I've been playing and we've been able to view ratings on the internet).

I am a current member of USATT, but it's annoying to have to login to view non-members ratings. Even if we are logged in and click on a tournament to view people's ratings, if the person is not currently a member, it just shows the USATT logo. We have to click on the name to see the rating. Why can't it display rating number (and, i suppose, the logo) on the tournament participants page when logged in? Try looking at a tournament where there are a lot of non-members, like an old one:


...awful...

Even more outrageous, we can't search for a former member's profile. So we would have to remember a tournament in which that person played at, or some other round-about way to get the profile page. I guess the real solution is to tell our friends who are non-members, to pay $15 so we can find their past results easier Wacko. What about people who are dead? How will they send in their $15?

Regarding the Board Meeting Minutes, was this idea even approved or needn't it be? This is the first time I've ever looked at any of the USATT minutes, but they are not minutes, rather a complete(?) transcript of the meeting. I haven't been to that many organizations with board meetings, or read very many minutes, but I've never seen transcripts referred to as minutes. I guess it would have to be voice recorded and then typed out. It must take forever. Strange traditions at USATT lol. It appears that in the "minutes," only Virginia seemed keen on this Ratings Subscription idea.

I miss the old days, where we could search with many different criteria on the old USATT site and check out TTSPIN for even more info.


Edited by Greg Gen - 02/14/2020 at 2:02am
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USATT thinks that this new ratings subscription ($25 per year) will increase USATT's revenue and increase the players leaping from playing leagues to playing sanctioned tournaments. Thus, will enable USATT to cut the membership fee and increase the USATT members.

The TT community thinks that the outcome, in the long run, will be just the opposite. (There was a survey, a thread, earlier.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 11:06am
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

USATT's plan is to decrease membership fee to increase the membership count.   I encourage everyone to read pages 55-57 of "December 15, 2019 - Board of Directors Meeting Minutes" (a PDF document).  This is where Virginia talks about membership/ratings access.

"USATT's plan is to decrease membership fee to increase the membership count."

That's the right direction to go.  But current action, USATT Introduces New Rating Access Subscription,
will lead USATT just to the opposite direction. 

The following is the essence of Virginia's plan:

"Virginia:
not really. We are going to make changes for next year. We have over 300 sanctioned
tournaments. If you average 100 people per event, that is close to $200,000 in revenue. So, the
rating processing fees, we realize that the more tournaments we have, the more revenue we will
generate. There is something wrong with our membe rship structure. The short term tournament
pass fee, this last year we have 1800 members purchase tournament pass which is one third of
total members here. If we can reduce membership fee and cancel tournament pass, we can
generate more revenue.
Ed:
that is a mistake and wrong. We can show this is a bad idea by data. Conversion is the way
to change. A $5 processing fee added on will reduce the number of players in tournaments.
Virginia:
we can split the revenue with the clubs.
Ed:
I suggest the plan of attack is on the full year."

Here's the problem.  This simply brings us back to where we came from. I've looked at past numbers when we had a lower membership fee, a Tournament processing fee, and only a one time Tournament Pass.  Membership revenues were pretty much the same as now.   They might have been slightly higher.  It is a tough call since there is year to year variation.  But there is no clear advantage one way or the other.  So the change in membership structure was not a clear success except that it clarified that the change in structure wasn't much of an issue.

So going back might increase USATT revenue by a small amount, but there is no reason to think it will grow membership in any substantial way unless you can show that the current system shrunk membership.  These ideas are mere bandaids at best. Even lowering overall costs will most likely not have much effect because USATT probably can't afford to make the deep cuts that might actually stimulate substantial increases in membership.  Though you can't really know unless you give it a shot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 11:41am
The problem with all of the membership increase "plans" is that they don't bother to offer anything new for the current non-members.  There are a lot of club members out there who are not USATT members, at least at our club.  There are about the same number of members for the USATT, which only varies by a small amount year to year.  There is little incentive for the non-tournament player at clubs to join the USATT.  That's the core problem.  They don't see the "need" for being a member of an organization that isn't giving them something in return. 

So, in my opinion, it doesn't matter what you charge for membership (within reason), even cutting the membership fee in half won't bring in any more members. 

Thinking outside of the box for a minute.  Maybe we need to rethink the whole money thing.  Let's make USATT membership free.  Free that is for all USATT sanctioned club members, and then charge fees for "participation" in leagues and tournaments.  You may say this doesn't change anything, well it does and it doesn't.  This might take some fine tuning, but essentially you would still have the same people paying fees as we have now, and in the beginning about the same cost per individual. What this will change is it would provide us with a huge increase in USATT membership numbers, and they would be "active" club members.  This in turn might make our sport more attractive to sponsors. Which might actually allow us to lower the cost for the participants at some point.  It might even make us less dependent on money from the USOPC.

In a nutshell we need to stop only counting the tournament/league players as our TT player base. By doing this we are cutting our organization off at the knees.  We are leaving out all of the players who turn out every week, spend money at clubs, on coaching, and just enjoy playing TT.  Making them automatically USATT members would help them identify with the organization, even if they have no interest in playing in organized competition.  Some of these people are already vested in running clubs and volunteering their time to help keep TT alive.  We need to show them the respect they deserve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

The problem with all of the membership increase "plans" is that they don't bother to offer anything new for the current non-members.  

That's why I suggested a credit towards coaching at a usatt club equal to the memberhip fee.  But I got laughed off the forum for suggesting usatt has to offer some value for money.  They can't afford it apparently.  

But I like your suggestion of free membership even better.  What usatt is doing hasn't worked for what, 40 years?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 1:26pm
[/QUOTE]
That's why I suggested a credit towards coaching at a usatt club equal to the memberhip fee.  But I got laughed off the forum for suggesting usatt has to offer some value for money.  They can't afford it apparently.  

But I like your suggestion of free membership even better.  What usatt is doing hasn't worked for what, 40 years?  
[/QUOTE]

I'm sure there would be a lot of details to work out, clubs are run so many different ways across the USA.  First we would have to set up some baseline criteria.  The only looser would be anyone who had purchased a life time membership.  I've been a member on and off for the last 40 years or so, and it's probably about time we tried something "different", I'd really like to see the USATT grow and succeed. 

For too long now we have based our membership and our income on the few among us that play tournaments/leagues, and moaned and complained about our inability to grow the sport.  All this time we have been ignoring the mass of club players out there.  WE need to try something else, something that reflects our true player base.

Would you rather say I'm in the top 10% of 10,000 players, the top .5% of 200,000 players or the top .2% of 500,000 in our organization.  It's all in the perception you portray when you start trying to get sponsors, whether it is for a national organization or for individual players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

The problem with all of the membership increase "plans" is that they don't bother to offer anything new for the current non-members.  

That's why I suggested a credit towards coaching at a usatt club equal to the memberhip fee.  But I got laughed off the forum for suggesting usatt has to offer some value for money.  They can't afford it apparently.  

But I like your suggestion of free membership even better.  What usatt is doing hasn't worked for what, 40 years?  
 
The issue with your coaching credit idea is that the “coaches” are not employed by the USATT. They are employed by the individuals clubs and coaching fees are one of the clubs main revenue generators and for the coaches it could be their only source of income. I wouldn’t envision very many of the full time clubs offering free coaching credits considering running a TT club isn’t exactly a license to print money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 2:04pm
The hope was that club coaching revenue would increase a lot with some percentage of new students paying full fare for more lessons after their initial usatt-subsidized one.  

There may be loads of better ideas for converting club players (and basement players) into usatt members. Is usatt talking to club owners around the country about how they could work together to grow the tt player base in america?  Maybe they are, I wouldn't know.  But if they aren't, it sure seems like they ought to be.


Edited by BRS - 02/14/2020 at 2:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2020 at 2:13pm
[/QUOTE] 
The issue with your coaching credit idea is that the “coaches” are not employed by the USATT. They are employed by the individuals clubs and coaching fees are one of the clubs main revenue generators and for the coaches it could be their only source of income. I wouldn’t envision very many of the full time clubs offering free coaching credits considering running a TT club isn’t exactly a license to print money.
[/QUOTE]

I know this wasn't my idea, but I'm going to give you my take on how his idea could be made to work.  Smile  He may disagree with my interpretation of his idea, and I will not pretend to speak for him.

And yeah your right, that would be an issue, but I think there might be a way we can work around this issue.  It would have to be for "New" members only, not for renewals, we don't want to irritate our coaching staff tying up their time with this.  If you just do it for New members coming off the street, then it wouldn't have to be the clubs full time paid coaches, just an experienced volunteer club player introducing the sport to kids or basement level players.  Which all clubs should be doing anyway if they are trying to retain new members.  Then hopefully you have coaches to pass them on to.  In this way it would just be a little "window dressing" to show the USATT interest in the new players, without being a burden on our existing coaching infrastructure.  Even with these limitations it would definitely be harder on smaller clubs with less resources than the mega clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2020 at 1:01am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

The hope was that club coaching revenue would increase a lot with some percentage of new students paying full fare for more lessons after their initial usatt-subsidized one.  

There may be loads of better ideas for converting club players (and basement players) into usatt members. Is usatt talking to club owners around the country about how they could work together to grow the tt player base in america?  Maybe they are, I wouldn't know.  But if they aren't, it sure seems like they ought to be.
 The issue I have seen with a majority of the basement players is for lack of a better description is they are shell shocked when they come to play. I've been running the club league for the last 3-4 years and when ever a new person shows up to play league I'll always ask if they have a rating. When they say no the next thing they say is they are the best player in the neighborhood. I do my best to explain that what he's playing in his garage/basement isn't the same as playing in the club league. They normally laugh it off and I again to explain that its not the same. I put them them in Group 3 ( lowest rated players could be 1600 to 500 level depending on turnout) and tell them don't get mad if they lose to the little 9 year kid. What happens they lose a couple of matches and leave and never come back. Maybe 1-2 of them will ever return to play again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2020 at 1:34am
When I was reading the minutes of the USATT meeting the impression I got was that they weren't happy with the fact that players were buying the tournament passes instead of renewing/buying memberships. Right now there's really no reason to buy a membership vs tournament pass unless you happen to live in the areas that have tournaments on a monthly basis. The rest of the players live in areas where there may only be 2-4 tournaments a year. What USATT needs to do is make the USATT membership more appealing than a tournament pass. If it was me I would lower the membership to $60.0 and raise the tournament pass to $25.0. I would also charge a 5-7 rating fee for all players playing on tournament pass. If you are a USATT member no rating fee charge. Now there's a benefit to being a member and a incentive for the players who have been playing on tournament passes. Presently you can play 4 tournaments on passes until you reach the current 75.00 membership fee. With this idea players would be better off purchasing a membership at their second tournament instead of paying 25 plus 7 again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2020 at 2:34am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

When I was reading the minutes of the USATT meeting the impression I got was that they weren't happy with the fact that players were buying the tournament passes instead of renewing/buying memberships. Right now there's really no reason to buy a membership vs tournament pass unless you happen to live in the areas that have tournaments on a monthly basis. The rest of the players live in areas where there may only be 2-4 tournaments a year. What USATT needs to do is make the USATT membership more appealing than a tournament pass. If it was me I would lower the membership to $60.0 and raise the tournament pass to $25.0. I would also charge a 5-7 rating fee for all players playing on tournament pass. If you are a USATT member no rating fee charge. Now there's a benefit to being a member and a incentive for the players who have been playing on tournament passes. Presently you can play 4 tournaments on passes until you reach the current 75.00 membership fee. With this idea players would be better off purchasing a membership at their second tournament instead of paying 25 plus 7 again. 

So you are just shifting the balance point for getting a full membership to playing more than two tournaments vs. more than four tournaments.  So the idea is to discourage the players who will be playing two or fewer tournaments but give a break to everybody else? Seems to me that those are the players on the margin to begin with and the most likely to push away.  So I don't see this as being a likely good way to grow membership or revenue.  

If you had good numbers on how many people were doing what, you could probably make a good prediction.  But my bet is that this kind of re-jiggering doesn't really make that much difference.  It didn't seem to the last time. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2020 at 11:03am
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

When I was reading the minutes of the USATT meeting the impression I got was that they weren't happy with the fact that players were buying the tournament passes instead of renewing/buying memberships. Right now there's really no reason to buy a membership vs tournament pass unless you happen to live in the areas that have tournaments on a monthly basis. The rest of the players live in areas where there may only be 2-4 tournaments a year. What USATT needs to do is make the USATT membership more appealing than a tournament pass. If it was me I would lower the membership to $60.0 and raise the tournament pass to $25.0. I would also charge a 5-7 rating fee for all players playing on tournament pass. If you are a USATT member no rating fee charge. Now there's a benefit to being a member and a incentive for the players who have been playing on tournament passes. Presently you can play 4 tournaments on passes until you reach the current 75.00 membership fee. With this idea players would be better off purchasing a membership at their second tournament instead of paying 25 plus 7 again. 


So you are just shifting the balance point for getting a full membership to playing more than two tournaments vs. more than four tournaments.  So the idea is to discourage the players who will be playing two or fewer tournaments but give a break to everybody else? Seems to me that those are the players on the margin to begin with and the most likely to push away.  So I don't see this as being a likely good way to grow membership or revenue.  

If you had good numbers on how many people were doing what, you could probably make a good prediction.  But my bet is that this kind of re-jiggering doesn't really make that much difference.  It didn't seem to the last time. 




Vince's suggestion is an OK start, and better than we find ourselves in the current situation. Perhaps with this incentive the folks who typically play only two tournaments might play three or more?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote bes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2020 at 11:34am
I think USATT fails to realize there is a big difference between what people want/need and what they offer.  For the VAST majority of sanctioned tournament players in my area, ratings seem to be the only thing they care about.  It is how they "keep score", and it often becomes a source of either self worth or disgust.  My thoughts on this aren't really germane to this...

Serious, but sad summation:
What USATT offers (for players in my area): Ratings
What they don't offer: anything else that anyone cares about

What they have done to De-Value membersips (and lower number of members at my club):
  1. Eliminated the "real" magazine.  I know it was costly, but it was something worth reading.  They replace it with a Web Page, which, is pretty poor.
  2. Messed up the ratings page.  Since Simply Compete, the ratings page is really much less powerful and versatile.  Neither I, nor many others I've talked to like the current presentation and hate the lack of old-style searches.
  3. Now they are culling old "non-active" ratings from the database.  It doesn't cost them anything to allow access to the data they already have - but they apparently don't want to.  It would be nice to be able and find out how a 1980's vintage player (say one just returning to TT) used to play.  
What they have done that should matter, but doesn't seem to:
  1. Bad financial management - REALLY bad.
  2. Bad management (Board Activity).  I can't think of many organizations that are less transparent or more stupidly political than USATT.  I thought things started to turn around early in Gordon's reign, but...
  3. Questionable High Performance management - team selection, coaching choices, etc. (not sure there is a perfectly "RIGHT" solution) 
What they have done that worked (helped increase number of players playing in rated events):
  1. Tournament Passes and no outright "Rating Fee".  Even though TP's are clearly just a fairly expensive Rating Fee, it still helps in my area.  There are not many tournaments nearby, and only a tiny portion of our club are willing to (interested in?) traveling 200+ miles to play in more tournaments.  For folks playing in 1, 2 or 3 tournaments per year, TP's let them play, get ratings, and save a little money.  Even playing 4 tournaments is about a wash.  MANY of these folks ONLY played in unrated events, unrated tournaments, or didn't play tournaments at all before TP's.  We might have had a few (less than half a dozen) more USATT members, but we had far fewer participants in rated tournament events.  Getting $20/player for essentially doing nothing (Tournament Directors (along with Omnipong, Zermelo, or whatever) do ALL the work) should be a good thing for USATT.   Sometimes they make nearly as much $ off my tournaments as my club does - and they do nothing - or close enough - in return.
If they (USATT) don't offer members and potential member anything in return, nothing they do will bring in a bunch of new folks.  Petty, money-grabbing changes (like paying to see ratings) will only annoy people.  Annoying people that already have little reason to participate is likely a bad plan.  There is no way to reformulate the TP fees, Mambership Fees, and Ratings Fees to come out ahead unless USATT figures out a REASON for people to join and play.  Unless something is changed, we'll be stuck with the same 5,000 to 10,000 TT Crazies (good crazy!)  that we've had since I started playing.  Taking away things that worked and that folks like and adding fees is more likely to run folks off.  

If they can't make ends meet, which seems the case, they need to do some serious review and revision to their budget.  All of it - including money spent on High Performance stuff!  I can't spend more than I make.  I have to track expenses and make sure I save enough for future needs and for potential surprises.  If they make (making up numbers) $1,000,000/year, their budget needs to be solidly less than that.  Spending more than they make, then trying to make up the difference nickel and diming their members (who aren't the reason they are in financial trouble) seems unfair and foolish.

Sorry for the long post!
bes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2020 at 11:17pm
Nice summary Bes.  I don't think in the near future we are going to have that many more Hard Core competitive folk playing in tournaments and leagues.  Competition just isn't the motivation for many of our club players.  

We need as a national organization to include more than just these players or we will never be anything more than a niche sport.  We need to find a way to include the volunteers that keep clubs going and help run tournaments, the weekend warriors that can't play during the week, the ones that play for the exercise, or the players that come once or twice a month for the fun of playing.  As long as we limit ourselves to just the hard core tournament/league players we can look forward to another 40 years of the same thing we have now. 

Earlier I posted that joining a sanctioned club should automatically get you a USATT membership.  I still think that is a good idea.  Now that I've thought about this some more, I would add a 2 tier membership.  

Level One that is automatic with club membership, and is the basic level.  These would be active players we could count as members.  They could vote in elections, and hopefully run for office if they desire.

Level Two would be the competitive players, in other words Tournament and League players.  The same fees as we have now (at least to start, maybe less if we can get better sponsorships).  In other words our current membership.  It would be an upgrade from Level One members.

More members would make us look like a truly national organization, it would recognize the currently disenfranchised players in our clubs.  And hopefully it would make acquiring sponsors easier for players, clubs and the USATT.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/16/2020 at 1:02am
What do all the clubs do that don't have club membership, but just a drop in fee?  The two main clubs where I play each play once a week.  One club has 6-10 players and the other 12-15.  We charge a $5 drop in fee.  I play about 8 tournaments a year, all the other players in both clubs combined play less than 8 (usually 4-6) tournaments a year
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/16/2020 at 2:52am
That's a good question, one that would need to be addressed. Is the club a USATT Affiliated club? I know not all of our clubs are, if it is the club currently determines who club members are.  I wouldn't see that changing, unless the USATT puts some more restrictions on clubs and how they are run.  I'm hoping to keep it as simple as possible for the clubs.  If not then just by becoming Affiliated they would get the option for all of their players to become USATT members.  Which currently would get the new members access to the website and a newsletter.  Wow, sounds lame when you type it out.

There would be a lot of details to iron out to make this work, how often does the club update their player list with the USATT for instance.  What about players that attend more than one club?  

And the fact that they play so few tournaments means there are a lot of players that aren't currently being counted as members of our organization.  They should be.  These are exactly the players we need to be including!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/16/2020 at 11:59am
USOC requires usatt clubs to be Safesport compliant. This means things like club staff must get background checks and mandatory training.

According to larrytt, many clubs dropped usatt affiliation because they did not want to deal with Safesport. Small part time clubs are not going to do Safesport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/16/2020 at 3:24pm
Yeah, I'm aware of that issue, and I can't blame the smaller clubs.  I wasn't going to bring that up, since it further divides our membership.  I don't see any solution for that for the USATT, they are under the USOPC's thumb.

I might be able to suggest a short term alternative for us as players.

That would be to begin a Club Database by doing a survey of clubs in the USA.  It would include the number of  players, names (Optional at this point), contact info for the clubs (not players), but USATT affiliation would be included as part of the DB, but not necessary for inclusion in the DB.  This could be something the USATT could access or not.  It would give us an idea of just how large the TT population really is in the USA.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think there is still 1 club in our state still affiliated, may be more, I'm not sure.


Edited by 1dennistt - 02/16/2020 at 3:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/16/2020 at 6:21pm
Originally posted by 1dennistt 1dennistt wrote:

Yeah, I'm aware of that issue, and I can't blame the smaller clubs.  I wasn't going to bring that up, since it further divides our membership.  I don't see any solution for that for the USATT, they are under the USOPC's thumb.

I might be able to suggest a short term alternative for us as players.

That would be to begin a Club Database by doing a survey of clubs in the USA.  It would include the number of  players, names (Optional at this point), contact info for the clubs (not players), but USATT affiliation would be included as part of the DB, but not necessary for inclusion in the DB.  This could be something the USATT could access or not.  It would give us an idea of just how large the TT population really is in the USA.  I'm not 100% sure, but I think there is still 1 club in our state still affiliated, may be more, I'm not sure.

I think this is a great idea.  I'm glad that you accepted the role as committee chairman and will see that it's gets done.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2020 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

USOC requires usatt clubs to be Safesport compliant. This means things like club staff must get background checks and mandatory training.

According to larrytt, many clubs dropped usatt affiliation because they did not want to deal with Safesport. Small part time clubs are not going to do Safesport.

Perhaps true, but it doesn't cost the club anything other than the time to go through the training and a willingness to have a background check done.
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