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Usatt Rating (Does this rating look correct)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 10:55am
Originally posted by taczkid taczkid wrote:

ALL!!!!!! NOT SURE WHAT USATT IS DOING... ANYMORE!
After my initial question, my rating went from 2200 to 2311 yesterday, and today it shows 2162. What is crazy is that ratings of all USATT players (I think) were CHANGED!!!!! mostly Changed for lower ratings!!!
 
I am really annoyed by all of this and really pissed of as well, I am sure a lot of players will be!
At this point I have no idea anymore what to do... Should we start some petition or can someone on this Forum reach out to USATT and simply ask them WTF is going on? I am tired of sending out emails, arguing, proving points etc.
 
I THINK IT IS JUST SOOO UNFAIR TO ALL OF THE PLAYERS, WHAT THEY DOING!!!
(Especially since they probably found some coding mistake and instead of fixing it for going forward they F..D Up everyone's ratings!!!

tazkid, look at what you have done. a lot of people lost points and their pride!!!   WinkWink just kidding
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:00am
I see multiple cases:

Big adjust rating < Small adjust rating. It means 

(pre-tournament rating + (best win + worst loss)/2 ) /2 < rating change from pass1

It also means new change based on USATT rating explanation will penalize players who have big upset rather than small upsets.

This is fundamentally wrong. Hope USATT revert back. 



Edited by mentortt - 02/14/2019 at 11:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:06am
"I survived the 2019 Rating Purge" t-shirts can't be far behind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:09am
Would a box of Joola Primes be Joola composite?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:11am
USATT is aware of the problem and is working on it. When I awoke this morning I saw all the online postings and verified that the ratings were apparently messed up. I emailed USATT headquarters but they already knew of the problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:14am
So OP was unhappy with his adjustment, sent a message to the USATT and they adjusted their entire member base, also deflating OP's rating in the process? LOL
I wasn't following this too closely until today....can someone confirm/clarify? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notfound123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:16am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:


I like the new ratings.. reaching 2000 would actually mean something again  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:20am
Originally posted by notfound123 notfound123 wrote:

So OP was unhappy with his adjustment, sent a message to the USATT and they adjusted their entire member base, also deflating OP's rating in the process? LOL
I wasn't following this too closely until today....can someone confirm/clarify? 
I don't think they meant to cause this drastic change - I'm pretty sure it was inadvertent, and that perhaps they created a bug in the software while fixing another one. But we'll see. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:21am
when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:48am
I actually like the ratings now.  The deflation makes it harder to get better with just one good event. 
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 11:48am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site


If it is a bug, the code should not have been released at all.

Any change should have gone through a quality control process before release.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:12pm
Maybe, the easiest thing to fix the ratings is to go to the Ratingscentral system.. Nobody will know the algorithm, so nobody can complain LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site


If it is a bug, the code should not have been released at all.

Any change should have gone through a quality control process before release.


What happened there is what we call "Unit Testing in Production" in the IT world...

In Software engineering, you are supposed to unit test your changes with a small set of sample data in non production environment and once it is tested, you execute the process in production... However, it appears that they re-processed all tournaments since the beginning of the new ratings data format without unit testing the fix first..


Edited by Pushblocker - 02/14/2019 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site


If it is a bug, the code should not have been released at all.

Any change should have gone through a quality control process before release.


What happened there is what we call "Unit Testing in Production" in the IT world...

In Software engineering, you are suppose to unit test your changes with a small set of sample data in non production environment and once it is tested, you execute the process in production... However, it appears that they re-processed all tournaments since the beginning of the new ratings data format without unit testing the fix first..
 
We call it PILOT, Production In Lieu Of Testing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site


If it is a bug, the code should not have been released at all.

Any change should have gone through a quality control process before release.


What happened there is what we call "Unit Testing in Production" in the IT world...

In Software engineering, you are suppose to unit test your changes with a small set of sample data in non production environment and once it is tested, you execute the process in production... However, it appears that they re-processed all tournaments since the beginning of the new ratings data format without unit testing the fix first..
 
We call it PILOT, Production In Lieu Of Testing.

Looks like the PILOT crashed LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:30pm
As I mentioned Ratingscentral... That system is supposed to be the most accurate but if you don't play frequently, it produces weird results.. Here is one example of my last Sandpaper event which is rated with Ratingscentral.. So, I gained 83 points by beating a player rated 110 points lower and one rated 239 points lower than myself.. Makes sense, right?

Detailed Report

Mader, OlivierRating Change
1663±191 + 83 = 1746±137
WinsLosses
Point
Change
Opponent’s
Rating
OpponentScorePoint
Change
Opponent’s
Rating
OpponentScore
+801553±71Marik, Victor5 19−132102±115Plyler, Mark17 17
+171424±171Reinecke, Yvonne11 902434±155Oba, Cedric17 16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qpskfec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site


If it is a bug, the code should not have been released at all.

Any change should have gone through a quality control process before release.



What happened there is what we call "Unit Testing in Production" in the IT world...

In Software engineering, you are suppose to unit test your changes with a small set of sample data in non production environment and once it is tested, you execute the process in production... However, it appears that they re-processed all tournaments since the beginning of the new ratings data format without unit testing the fix first..

 
We call it PILOT, Production In Lieu Of Testing.


Looks like the PILOT crashed LOL


Unfortunately, the test the new code on production problem has gotten worse in recent years all over the sw industry.

It again points to the lack of a well defined process by usatt and its third party sw vendor. Usatt looks like some mickey mouse operation when entirely avoidable issues like this pop up.

This kind of thing definitely should be brought to the attention of the board of directors as well as in the search for a new CEO. Unless a proper process is implemented by top management, this will happen again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:42pm
Scores have been reverted back. Cheers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 1:56pm
I like the way they are handling things and I hope they will continue.  This way I can log in each week filled with the childlike excitement of finding out what USATT has wrapped inside that pretty ratings package under the tree.  And best of all I don't have to spend all that money on entry fees, hotels, and gasoline just to get a new rating.

Keep up the good work USATT.

Mark

PS -  With the new moves toward legal gaming, maybe USATT is simply setting up  a new lottery where each week members get to buy a guess on how much their rating will change that week.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

when there is a bug, a notice should be posted on the site


If it is a bug, the code should not have been released at all.

Any change should have gone through a quality control process before release.



What happened there is what we call "Unit Testing in Production" in the IT world...

In Software engineering, you are suppose to unit test your changes with a small set of sample data in non production environment and once it is tested, you execute the process in production... However, it appears that they re-processed all tournaments since the beginning of the new ratings data format without unit testing the fix first..

 
We call it PILOT, Production In Lieu Of Testing.


Looks like the PILOT crashed LOL


Unfortunately, the test the new code on production problem has gotten worse in recent years all over the sw industry.

It again points to the lack of a well defined process by usatt and its third party sw vendor. Usatt looks like some mickey mouse operation when entirely avoidable issues like this pop up.

This kind of thing definitely should be brought to the attention of the board of directors as well as in the search for a new CEO. Unless a proper process is implemented by top management, this will happen again.
I work in Software engineering for a huge financial corporation.. All our software releases have to be unit tested, QA tested, UAT tested and after 2 months of testing, they are moved to production..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mycuzinvinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 2:15pm
Darn, now I can't sandbag play the U1500 event at the Cary Cup! Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by mycuzinvinny mycuzinvinny wrote:

Darn, now I can't sandbag play the U1500 event at the Cary Cup! Wacko
I wish that I could make the Cary Cup this year but I'll be in Europe at the day of the tournament. Will probably play some TT there while I'm there but probably no tournaments.


Edited by Pushblocker - 02/14/2019 at 2:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 2:38pm
Cary Cup has already full for main giant round robin with 1.5 months away. Not sure if they have special invitations available.  It is well maintained tournament.


Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by mycuzinvinny mycuzinvinny wrote:

Darn, now I can't sandbag play the U1500 event at the Cary Cup! Wacko
I wish that I could make the Cary Cup this year but I'll be in Europe at the day of the tournament. Will probably play some TT there while I'm there but probably no tournaments.


Edited by mentortt - 02/14/2019 at 2:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Scores have been reverted back. Cheers!

glad you are happy for the revert.  But you are aware that it could change (without further competition)  any minute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 3:01pm
I am OK either way. We are not playing for rating. But rating must be fair to everyone.  If it is fair, drop 100 points should be fine. I think USATT should be transparent on the process. Everyone uses their rating for their qualified events.

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Scores have been reverted back. Cheers!

glad you are happy for the revert.  But you are aware that it could change (without further competition)  any minute.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pushblocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2019 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Cary Cup has already full for main giant round robin with 1.5 months away. Not sure if they have special invitations available.  It is well maintained tournament.


Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by mycuzinvinny mycuzinvinny wrote:

Darn, now I can't sandbag play the U1500 event at the Cary Cup! Wacko
I wish that I could make the Cary Cup this year but I'll be in Europe at the day of the tournament. Will probably play some TT there while I'm there but probably no tournaments.
I didn't sign up because I was planning a trip to Europe that week.. I finally bought the tickets for the family and I know 100% that I will be out of town that weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mycuzinvinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2019 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by mentortt mentortt wrote:

Cary Cup has already full for main giant round robin with 1.5 months away. Not sure if they have special invitations available.  It is well maintained tournament.


Originally posted by Pushblocker Pushblocker wrote:

Originally posted by mycuzinvinny mycuzinvinny wrote:

Darn, now I can't sandbag play the U1500 event at the Cary Cup! Wacko
I wish that I could make the Cary Cup this year but I'll be in Europe at the day of the tournament. Will probably play some TT there while I'm there but probably no tournaments.
I didn't sign up because I was planning a trip to Europe that week.. I finally bought the tickets for the family and I know 100% that I will be out of town that weekend.


Yep, maxed out at 144 entries, I don't think there are open invitations out.  There is a significant amount of 1700-2100 entries, but I don't see as many 2400+ this year as before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2019 at 9:55am
I don't see the ratings being resolved. If a player qualifies for a Pass2 adjustment with a loss, today's ratings seem to use this equation: Pass2 = average(Pass1 rating, average(highest win, lowest loss)) while the ratings explanation reads "...the average of the player's Pre-Tournament rating, and the player's best win and worst loss." 

Either the wording on the ratings system explanation page should be changed or the ratings should be as they were yesterday morning. 
Would a box of Joola Primes be Joola composite?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mentortt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/15/2019 at 9:59am
I think the turnout is better than last year although remote elite players haven't shown up yet. One possibility is that their schedule collides with youth ranking events. So elite youth players cannot go.

I don't remember last year this event is full so early. Club support is very important. Most members of our club are recommended to go. But for US Open in Orlando, few members in our club are there. Building strong club support will guarantee a big turnout.


Originally posted by mycuzinvinny mycuzinvinny wrote:

Yep, maxed out at 144 entries, I don't think there are open invitations out.  There is a significant amount of 1700-2100 entries, but I don't see as many 2400+ this year as before.


Edited by mentortt - 02/15/2019 at 10:12am
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