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using OFF- blade for LONG PIPS for chopping

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scdit46 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08/28/2012 at 7:20am
I have see to players using a Primorac OFF-  with long pips (0X and 0.5mm) for chopping to mid distance.

This blade is suitable for chopping?

And a blade as Nittaku Acoustic?

regards!
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ddaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ddaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/28/2012 at 11:45pm
I think you would be in trouble close to the table if they hit the ball to your backhand! I have been trying long pips on offensive blades for the last few months and don't like it at all! But I use my pips more for blocking;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nagatito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/29/2012 at 1:15am
I have a LP for blocking and hitting on a OFF blade and its pretty good but its too difficult to chop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 7:51am
I would say if you have your heart set on that blade, try it with a very slow long pip in 0X and give it 40 or 50 hrs of playing time to see if you can adapt
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scdit46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

I would say if you have your heart set on that blade, try it with a very slow long pip in 0X and give it 40 or 50 hrs of playing time to see if you can adapt


And 0,5mm?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 10:16am
With sponge the chops will go longer than without sponge.  I suspect that with the faster blade you will want as slow of a long pips as you can find to be able to chop back strong loops. 

I have heard that Spinlord Dornenglast is quite slow.  Donic Piranha is another that is very slow. 
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by scdit46 scdit46 wrote:

I have see to players using a Primorac OFF-  with long pips (0X and 0.5mm) for chopping to mid distance.

This blade is suitable for chopping?

And a blade as Nittaku Acoustic?
I know nothing of those blades except that you say they are OFF-.   My closest similar experience is that I have Pogo 0.6mm on the BH of my BTY BC X5 ( OFF ).   Yes I can chop but it isn't the best setup for chopping, it is much better for hitting.

I disagree  with ddaw's comment about the BH being vulnerable when close to the table.  One learns to close the paddle to compensate for the top spin and hit the ball off the bounce to kill the energy.  Higher balls one can hit IF it doesn't have too much top spin otherwise it is best to chop block.

Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

With sponge the chops will go longer than without sponge.
If it is a matter of friction then maybe but sponge absorbs energy,  it does not generate it.  No one has refuted that yet.

Quote
I suspect that with the faster blade you will want as slow of a long pips as you can find to be able to chop back strong loops.
I would consider Giant Dragon Crop Circles is slow and has grip so that one can vary the spin some when chopping but so far I haven't heard of anybody doing serious chopping with Crop Circles.

Dornenglanz is use more for blocking close to the table.
   
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTHOUSTON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 1:05pm
Which blade is the best for push and block? Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scdit46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 1:48pm
The blade that I use is a Nittaku Acoustic, is a OFF- blade (5 plies, only wood).

On the BH  i want chop to mid distance and blocking close the table.

The long pips that I will try is TSP Curl p1R.

What is better for this setup: 0x or 0,5mm or 1.0mm?

regards!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:


Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

With sponge the chops will go longer than without sponge.
If it is a matter of friction then maybe but sponge absorbs energy,  it does not generate it.  No one has refuted that yet.

I disagree.  I have used/tried a number of long pips rubbers where I have the same OEM rubber with and without sponge, and of all the ones I've tried, all of them produce longer balls when the sponge version is played.  That does not say that ALL sponges will cause this, but I can tell you its true for Nittaku Screw, Nittaku Wallest, Palio ck531a, and Globe 979, and if you go look at the manufacturer's speed ratings for the Nittaku ones, you will find they rate the sponge versions as faster and with less control in all cases.  Will it also be true for TSP Curl P1r?  I don't know because I haven't used that one.

Quote
I suspect that with the faster blade you will want as slow of a long pips as you can find to be able to chop back strong loops.
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I would consider Giant Dragon Crop Circles is slow and has grip so that one can vary the spin some when chopping but so far I haven't heard of anybody doing serious chopping with Crop Circles.

Dornenglanz is use more for blocking close to the table.

I haven't used either of those but had considered Dornenglaz because I had read where people said it was good for chopping.   I guess it doesn't matter now that he's said he wants to use P1r, but I think anyone looking at switching rubber would be wise to go hunt down and read reviews and try to find someone local playing with it to try it a bit, or maybe get a cheap used sheet just to test with if its an expensive rubber.
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by scdit46 scdit46 wrote:

I have see to players using a Primorac OFF-  with long pips (0X and 0.5mm) for chopping to mid distance.

This blade is suitable for chopping?

And a blade as Nittaku Acoustic?

regards!
 
a good old stiga all preferebly st is the best blade for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/30/2012 at 11:00pm
Greek number 2 Gionis Panagiotis uses a Korbel with Feint Long 2.
Blade - Yasaka Sweden Extra FL
Forehand - Mizuno Q5 2.1mm
Backhand - Xiom Vega Europe DF 1.8mm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2012 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:


Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

With sponge the chops will go longer than without sponge.
If it is a matter of friction then maybe but sponge absorbs energy,  it does not generate it.  No one has refuted that yet.

I disagree.  I have used/tried a number of long pips rubbers where I have the same OEM rubber with and without sponge, and of all the ones I've tried, all of them produce longer balls when the sponge version is played.
That is because you hit the ball harder.  The sponge DOES NOT GENERATE ENERGY.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old-Man-Southpaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2012 at 11:21am
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:


Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

With sponge the chops will go longer than without sponge.
If it is a matter of friction then maybe but sponge absorbs energy,  it does not generate it.  No one has refuted that yet.

I disagree.  I have used/tried a number of long pips rubbers where I have the same OEM rubber with and without sponge, and of all the ones I've tried, all of them produce longer balls when the sponge version is played.
That is because you hit the ball harder.  The sponge DOES NOT GENERATE ENERGY.


Of course they don't "generate energy", but that isn't what matters.  I see no point arguing further.  I think the manufacturers probably know what version of their product is faster or slower, and to me, their ratings have been confirmed by my experiences using those products, which is that the same rubber with sponge generates chops that go farther than the same rubber without sponge.
--- Push/Chop or Attack ---

Blade: TT Piet Off/All Custom 5 ply

FH: Rakza 7

BH: DTec.S Long pips



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2012 at 11:33am
Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:


Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:


Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:


Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

Originally posted by Old-Man-Southpaw Old-Man-Southpaw wrote:

With sponge the chops will go longer than without sponge.
If it is a matter of friction then maybe but sponge absorbs energy,  it does not generate it.  No one has refuted that yet.
I disagree.  I have used/tried a number of long pips rubbers where I have the same OEM rubber with and without sponge, and of all the ones I've tried, all of them produce longer balls when the sponge version is played.
That is because you hit the ball harder.  The sponge DOES NOT GENERATE ENERGY.

Of course they don't "generate energy", but that isn't what matters.  I see no point arguing further.  I think the manufacturers probably know what version of their product is faster or slower, and to me, their ratings have been confirmed by my experiences using those products, which is that the same rubber with sponge generates chops that go farther than the same rubber without sponge.


+1,

with one small "correction". If you play a blocking game, then sometimes a LP with a thin sponge is slower then LP ox, depending on the blade you are using. A very fast blade makes ox rubbers fast, while the sponge seems to dampen the speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/31/2012 at 4:43pm
The TT rubber manufacturers are full of marketing hype and don't care about the truth.
If you acknowledge that the sponges don't produce energy then where does the extra kinetic energy come from?

I don't agree with Speedplay's +1 but I agree with his follow up statement.  
I have 0.6mm on my LP just to absorb some of that energy.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scdit46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2012 at 6:37am
The follow monday I will try Acoustic with TSP Curl P1r 0X.

I tell you here the first impressions.

regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silva7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2012 at 7:26am
i have used P1R 1.4-1.7mm on my Violin a few months back, it was tricky to play close to the table but chopping from mid distance was great. i now use Donic Alligator Combi with the P1R and it's great!! good luck with the Acoustic. I think I could have adjusted to the Violin if i stuck with it for longer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YosuaYosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/01/2012 at 8:26am
I think Primorac Off- will suit agressive OX chopping style (combined with fast pushes on the table) like Sun Jian Fei and Alex Melnik..

The blade Sir Alex used is Matsush*ta Pro.. Something like Def+ close to Off-..
The blade composition thus feel and how it play will be different though..

For modern defence putting a thin, soft sponge and pips will be a good start imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scdit46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2013 at 7:55pm
I have doubts for Nittaku Acoustic for chopping to mid distance. The options are the follow:

- Feint Long 3 0.5mm
- Feint Long 3 1.0mm
- TSP Curl P1R 0.5mm
- TSP Curl P1R 1.0mm




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/03/2013 at 8:15pm
Stiff OFF+ blades are great for OX LP punchblocking game. The 1000+ strong brigade of Achuma OX punchblockers has your back.

There are a number of 2300+ C-Pen players with OX or thin sponged LP who use an All+/OFF- class blade and chop with the LP from mid-far distance as part of classic defense, step in to hit like modern defender, or throw that un-predictable chop stroke in for a change up. sometimes receive serves with the LPs for variety.

Such gear and style are viable up to a decently high amature level sez me and number of pretty damed good div 1 amatures here.
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