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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vasile Buzatu ~2300 pushblocker, frictionless lp
    Posted: 07/31/2019 at 6:43am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 7:27am
Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 7:41am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

Frictionless LP are not really allowed, so I'm puzzled a bit why he still plays with one, if it's truly frictionless.

As far as why someone would play that way: it's a personal preference, some people enjoy defense and seeing opponents make a mistake. To each their own.

P.S. There is a decent amount of skill involved in this style. Just different skills. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

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Edited by Dream1700 - 07/31/2019 at 10:10am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

As someone said previously some people enjoy winning the point offensively and some enjoy watching others lose by making mistakes. Same type of people will play inverted both sides and just push/chop block everything, so its not rubber specific, but of course frictionless lp does help with forcing more errors.

I always thought people that play like this, whether they use junk rubber or not, have weaknesses that they try to compensate by playing of the forced errors of their opponent.

Defensively this guy is a wall, but you can tell he is mentally weak, it takes a special kind of person to "cho" in your opponent's face when they make an error.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

Frictionless LP are not really allowed, so I'm puzzled a bit why he still plays with one, if it's truly frictionless.

As far as why someone would play that way: it's a personal preference, some people enjoy defense and seeing opponents make a mistake. To each their own.

P.S. There is a decent amount of skill involved in this style. Just different skills. 
Rubbers that are frictionless from the factory or those treated are ILLEGAL but those who have lost friction due to use/age are legal based on the wording of the rules.. Not sure if any of that applies to his rubber.. Hard to tell.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.
I agree his game is unwatchable. Ugly as hell. But if he can compete playing this way, good for him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

I don't see a big difference between this and all the other pushblockers in the world.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 2:26pm
what a pathetic game, oh well his fat arse won't be around much longer once testing comes in. even our little league here has pledged they will be getting testing equipment.

good to see our sport progressing through these cheaters.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

As someone said previously some people enjoy winning the point offensively and some enjoy watching others lose by making mistakes. Same type of people will play inverted both sides and just push/chop block everything, so its not rubber specific, but of course frictionless lp does help with forcing more errors.

I always thought people that play like this, whether they use junk rubber or not, have weaknesses that they try to compensate by playing of the forced errors of their opponent.

Defensively this guy is a wall, but you can tell he is mentally weak, it takes a special kind of person to "cho" in your opponent's face when they make an error.

How cho-ing at a mistake mentally weak? lol...

They make errors BECAUSE of what the push-blocker is doing. Part of his strategy is sending over balls that will create those mistakes, which is certainly cho worthy in my book! 

I play that way and love doing it! Letting the other person feel that they CAN'T beat you, no matter what they do is a glorious feeling! They can't out-block, can't outpush, can't out-dink, can't out you name it... seeing THEM mentally crumble (or usually blame the rubber LOLLOL) is very sweet, indeed. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 4:31pm
I am a fan of diversity in playing styles. One can watch it to learn either how to play with LP or how to beat a LP player. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 5:06pm
I wonder what the incidence of heart problems is among pushblockers compared to well .. table tennis players is. They all seem to be morbidly obese.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 5:13pm
What I saw was a very good player beating an awkward opponent. Looking at the scores, it was no wonder that the pushblocker was choing when he got a point.
Anyway, I am for diversity in rubbers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 5:23pm
I'm also a fan of equipment diversity in TT. Just gives it a little something extra.

I personally believe that going inverted on both sides is just better for fitness but perhaps not for winning. There are styles with pips that are also quite active. I think the key is just to be active with your play. The guy in this video is not. He might have a skill but it's closer to playing darts than an athletic sport.



Edited by wilkinru - 07/31/2019 at 5:24pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 5:49pm
Last sixteen game from the same tournament.




Edited by ChichoFicho - 07/31/2019 at 5:52pm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Last sixteen game from the same tournament.



if you look at 1:40 he does a strawberry LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/31/2019 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

As someone said previously some people enjoy winning the point offensively and some enjoy watching others lose by making mistakes. Same type of people will play inverted both sides and just push/chop block everything, so its not rubber specific, but of course frictionless lp does help with forcing more errors.

I always thought people that play like this, whether they use junk rubber or not, have weaknesses that they try to compensate by playing of the forced errors of their opponent.

Defensively this guy is a wall, but you can tell he is mentally weak, it takes a special kind of person to "cho" in your opponent's face when they make an error.

How cho-ing at a mistake mentally weak? lol...

They make errors BECAUSE of what the push-blocker is doing. Part of his strategy is sending over balls that will create those mistakes, which is certainly cho worthy in my book! 

I play that way and love doing it! Letting the other person feel that they CAN'T beat you, no matter what they do is a glorious feeling! They can't out-block, can't outpush, can't out-dink, can't out you name it... seeing THEM mentally crumble (or usually blame the rubber LOLLOL) is very sweet, indeed. 

Let me rephrase for you...  i THINK he is mentally weak because he cho’s on forced errors to his opponents face . There... better? It’s an opinion now so you can take it or leave it.

As for your style of play. I’m glad you found what works for you, as long as it makes you happy. Just remember no one is going to be admiring his style of play 5-10-15 years from now, no one is going to clap for the excitement of the rallies that are shown in that video, and no one really is going to see him play and say... “wow that guy is a great athlete” win or lose.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 12:14am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

As for your style of play. I’m glad you found what works for you, as long as it makes you happy. Just remember no one is going to be admiring his style of play 5-10-15 years from now, no one is going to clap for the excitement of the rallies that are shown in that video, and no one really is going to see him play and say... “wow that guy is a great athlete” win or lose.
I find this discussion sad.  As if we need to comment on people's choices of style rather than just enjoy the play.  A few of my own thoughts:

1) I seriously doubt there is anyone on this forum (OK, we can exclude Danny Seemiller) where any of us is going to admire their style of play 15 years from now.  We're all amateurs and there is a lot of ugly play here (which is why I never post videos of myself).  The main reason I like watching videos of MYTT members is because of the wide variety of styles, compared to the impressive but robotic play of professionals.

2) "Great athlete" is such a funny choice of phrase.  Table tennis is first and foremost about skill.  If the pushblocker style emphasizes skill over physical athleticism, that's just a choice and there's nothing wrong with it.  There are plenty of people who would claim that there are no great athletes in table tennis, since we lack the back our sport doesn't involve the massive muscles of some other sports.  Certainly, at the amateur level I see very few highly athletic players.

3) The Pushblocker used to post videos of himself and I think they were pretty popular.  Many people do like watching that style and seeing  the frustration of those super-loopers going down.

I think there is a legitimate complaint to be made when the pushblocker player uses illegally slick rubber, because it provides them more success with less skill.  However, you can play good pushblocker style with legal rubbers.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 9:15am
This is just an example of winning ugly and there's nothing wrong that (ask Brad Gilbert). I actually think he's more athletic than he looks. What looks non athletic is his posture, limited arm movement, and nonexistent waist turn. As we all should know, spin, control, and tactics play a huge role to win points and he does a good job in those areas. 
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/01/2019 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

As for your style of play. I’m glad you found what works for you, as long as it makes you happy. Just remember no one is going to be admiring his style of play 5-10-15 years from now, no one is going to clap for the excitement of the rallies that are shown in that video, and no one really is going to see him play and say... “wow that guy is a great athlete” win or lose.
I find this discussion sad.  As if we need to comment on people's choices of style rather than just enjoy the play.  A few of my own thoughts:

1) I seriously doubt there is anyone on this forum (OK, we can exclude Danny Seemiller) where any of us is going to admire their style of play 15 years from now.  We're all amateurs and there is a lot of ugly play here (which is why I never post videos of myself).  The main reason I like watching videos of MYTT members is because of the wide variety of styles, compared to the impressive but robotic play of professionals.

2) "Great athlete" is such a funny choice of phrase.  Table tennis is first and foremost about skill.  If the pushblocker style emphasizes skill over physical athleticism, that's just a choice and there's nothing wrong with it.  There are plenty of people who would claim that there are no great athletes in table tennis, since we lack the back our sport doesn't involve the massive muscles of some other sports.  Certainly, at the amateur level I see very few highly athletic players.

3) The Pushblocker used to post videos of himself and I think they were pretty popular.  Many people do like watching that style and seeing  the frustration of those super-loopers going down.

I think there is a legitimate complaint to be made when the pushblocker player uses illegally slick rubber, because it provides them more success with less skill.  However, you can play good pushblocker style with legal rubbers.
 

My words may have been abit too harsh from the beginning so i want to clarify what i said.
I think its ok to play any style that suits you and pushblocker style is ofcourse one of many in tt. There is nothing wrong playing like that with legal rubbers. With frictionless being illegal, i was surprised a match with a scorekeeper he was allowed to play with that racket. I know in lower levels it may not be enforced as much but i would hope the rules carry across for everyone in this sport, amateur or pro (same way i feel about illegal serves at lower levels, but thats another topic).

I have nothing against lp, sp, anti players. I tried sp/lp myself at one point after i had to recover from an injury and couldnt play inverted and wanted to stay in the game by playing with pips. Probably when im at the age where i cant move as well i would make the switch to pips anyway. The negativity i have for the guy' style in the video came mostly from his attitude when winning points, specifically the choing to the face on forced errors. Its more about etiquette to me i guess than the style. Just doesnt sit well with me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 12:53am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

With frictionless being illegal, i was surprised a match with a scorekeeper he was allowed to play with that racket. I know in lower levels it may not be enforced as much but i would hope the rules carry across for everyone in this sport, amateur or pro (same way i feel about illegal serves at lower levels, but thats another topic).

I agree completely, but I don't think any evidence was presented that it was in fact frictionless. A player with high skill can still play the same style as that of former frictionless players.

Yes I don't like to see players cho to the opponent's face either, that seems unsportsman like to me, irrespective of the style played. Perhaps these guys have a history? LOLLOLLOL



Edited by haggisv - 08/02/2019 at 12:57am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 2:57am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

 
I agree completely, but I don't think any evidence was presented that it was in fact frictionless. A player with high skill can still play the same style as that of former frictionless players.

People keep talking about frictionless pips, but do we know for a fact that that is what he's using?  We have a local player here who plays reasonably well (1900 level) as a pushblocker with legal pips. It can be done.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 3:07am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

With frictionless being illegal, i was surprised a match with a scorekeeper he was allowed to play with that racket. I know in lower levels it may not be enforced as much but i would hope the rules carry across for everyone in this sport, amateur or pro (same way i feel about illegal serves at lower levels, but thats another topic).

Dreiz, just be aware that in Europe, the person in the chair assumes the role of umpire, even if that person is a player in the group.
There's a big difference in responsibility between a scorekeeper and an umpire.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 5:06am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

 
I agree completely, but I don't think any evidence was presented that it was in fact frictionless. A player with high skill can still play the same style as that of former frictionless players.

People keep talking about frictionless pips, but do we know for a fact that that is what he's using?  We have a local player here who plays reasonably well (1900 level) as a pushblocker with legal pips. It can be done.

Isn't that exactly what I said?Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 10:15am
Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by DreiZ DreiZ wrote:

Originally posted by Fabian1890 Fabian1890 wrote:

Man this is just terrible to watch :D it looks like it's a completely different sport. That style takes away any athletic elements and just tries to destroy the 'regular' game.

i know it's allowed but i wonder why one would like to play that style? just to increase your winning percentage? I'd rather quit then.

As someone said previously some people enjoy winning the point offensively and some enjoy watching others lose by making mistakes. Same type of people will play inverted both sides and just push/chop block everything, so its not rubber specific, but of course frictionless lp does help with forcing more errors.

I always thought people that play like this, whether they use junk rubber or not, have weaknesses that they try to compensate by playing of the forced errors of their opponent.

Defensively this guy is a wall, but you can tell he is mentally weak, it takes a special kind of person to "cho" in your opponent's face when they make an error.

How cho-ing at a mistake mentally weak? lol...

They make errors BECAUSE of what the push-blocker is doing. Part of his strategy is sending over balls that will create those mistakes, which is certainly cho worthy in my book! 

I play that way and love doing it! Letting the other person feel that they CAN'T beat you, no matter what they do is a glorious feeling! They can't out-block, can't outpush, can't out-dink, can't out you name it... seeing THEM mentally crumble (or usually blame the rubber LOLLOL) is very sweet, indeed. 

Let me rephrase for you...  i THINK he is mentally weak because he cho’s on forced errors to his opponents face . There... better? It’s an opinion now so you can take it or leave it.

As for your style of play. I’m glad you found what works for you, as long as it makes you happy. Just remember no one is going to be admiring his style of play 5-10-15 years from now, no one is going to clap for the excitement of the rallies that are shown in that video, and no one really is going to see him play and say... “wow that guy is a great athlete” win or lose.

No, but what is even sweeter than the cheering of a crowd? 

....the incessant whining of your opponent as you demolish them with "no skill"! Hahaha 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

 
I agree completely, but I don't think any evidence was presented that it was in fact frictionless. A player with high skill can still play the same style as that of former frictionless players.

People keep talking about frictionless pips, but do we know for a fact that that is what he's using?  We have a local player here who plays reasonably well (1900 level) as a pushblocker with legal pips. It can be done.

Isn't that exactly what I said?Embarrassed
Sorry, I was actually just trying to expand upon what you said.  I should have worded it better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 1:58pm
Why is it that every "push blocker" I see turns into an 1100 level player when they have to make a real shot such as a forehand smash? Do none of them even have any semblance of a traditional offensive game? I have literally seen basement players with better form on put away shots than some high level "push blockers". Given all the pop ups that they get, it would seem to make sense to have this shot in their arsenal.

It's almost like they are playing an entirely different game.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 2:04pm
This type of handling the game without good forehand attack are just under the average level for recreational players. And honestly - players using that strategy are the same in the life too.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Why is it that every "push blocker" I see turns into an 1100 level player when they have to make a real shot such as a forehand smash? Do none of them even have any semblance of a traditional offensive game? I have literally seen basement players with better form on put away shots than some high level "push blockers". Given all the pop ups that they get, it would seem to make sense to have this shot in their arsenal.

It's almost like they are playing an entirely different game.

The answer is simple. They haven't needed to! If you can make it to 2000+ without forehand attacking... I think that says more about your opponents than the pushblockers!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/02/2019 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by obesechopper obesechopper wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

Why is it that every "push blocker" I see turns into an 1100 level player when they have to make a real shot such as a forehand smash? Do none of them even have any semblance of a traditional offensive game? I have literally seen basement players with better form on put away shots than some high level "push blockers". Given all the pop ups that they get, it would seem to make sense to have this shot in their arsenal.

It's almost like they are playing an entirely different game.

The answer is simple. They haven't needed to! If you can make it to 2000+ without forehand attacking... I think that says more about your opponents than the pushblockers!


Obviously. There are many different styles out there, and among none other can someone make it to a high level without being able to execute basic, fundamental table tennis shots except for the one that is so heavily predicated on equipment.


Give a 2000 shakehand attacker (hitter, looper, all around, whatever) a pips out paddle and maybe their level goes down to 1800. Make a 2000 shakehand all around player chop, maybe their level goes down to 17-1800. Give a 2000 modern chopper an inverted both sides offensive paddle and maybe their level goes to 1800.

Give a pushblocker anything besides that, and from what I see they become a 1000 level player.

I don't have an issue with people choosing to play this style, but let's stop acting like it isn't a huge gimmick that completely bypasses learning any fundamentals of how to play tt, which any other style of player would need to have. That is why players of this style are hard capped at 2300 level, unless they can actually win points through smashing or something offensive as well. You won't find one that ever goes higher because they completely rely on people to make mistakes and have no way of really earning their own points. That won't work against the vast majority of 2300+ players.


Edited by bard romance - 08/02/2019 at 2:53pm
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