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Very fast set-up with solid control you tried?

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vik2000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10/19/2019 at 4:20pm
I'm curious about the experiences of those (particularly loopers) who have used blades like Viscaria or other carbon (outer or inner) blades in the past, but have moved onto an even faster set-up while still maintaining decent control. What sort of blades have you tried? I know there are some very fast blades like Primorac / Schlager Carbon but these blades to me are highly stiff and are not suitable for loopers. I recently had a couple of hits with Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon and did not find it particularly fast, contrary to the ratings on revspin (obviously I don't entirely trust these ratings). Also, a blade like Mizutani Jun Super ZLC has a limba outer and it seems to me like it is one of those blades that is plenty fast but still has some good control.

Obviously, the set-up is very much rubber dependent as well, so feel free to share your favorite fast set-up you have tried in the past and currently.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guni4you Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2019 at 4:39pm
donic ovtcharov carbospeed with tenergy 05.You will love it man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2019 at 5:34pm
Control of what?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2019 at 6:23pm
The MJ old version (I did not try the new one) is probably the fastest blade that still makes sense for a looper. It is one of the best for me. My MJ SZLC is 92gr and is a bit too fast but it's a lot of fun, not much feel tho, I keep it only because I am afraid I'd buy another one later (same like the Violin and the Vega Pro I sold before).

I play with a Vega Pro, I bought a couple at 73 and 74gr and it's a bit slower than the typical 88g MJ but still super solid with no vibes. The ones still for sale are cheaper now that it is a discontinued model however its composition is more valid than ever and the fact they can e easily found around 83gr makes it an ideal blade for the looper who likes MJ but wants something under 85gr which is unheard of.

Among the non BTY carbon blades: 

- the Joola Rossi Force is not a beast as the Schlager but it is going that way. I know the one with a pink handle only, I am not sure about the one I link to, I assume it's the same. 

- the Violin carbon (outer) is a bit dull, maybe because I was expecting too much, I wonder about the Violin inner. I did not try the acoustic carbon (inner or outer).

I could go on and on but...

If you have tried the MJ regular, I do not think you can find anything better for the looper who wants the fastest that still makes sense, they really hit the nail on its head with that blade.



Edited by stiltt - 10/19/2019 at 6:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2019 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Control of what?

Of the ball. What else? Do I need a whole paragraph defining what exactly control means? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2019 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

The MJ old version (I did not try the new one) is probably the fastest blade that still makes sense for a looper. It is one of the best for me. My MJ SZLC is 92gr and is a bit too fast but it's a lot of fun, not much feel tho, I keep it only because I am afraid I'd buy another one later (same like the Violin and the Vega Pro I sold before).

I play with a Vega Pro, I bought a couple at 73 and 74gr and it's a bit slower than the typical 88g MJ but still super solid with no vibes. The ones still for sale are cheaper now that it is a discontinued model however its composition is more valid than ever and the fact they can e easily found around 83gr makes it an ideal blade for the looper who likes MJ but wants something under 85gr which is unheard of.

Among the non BTY carbon blades: 

- the Joola Rossi Force is not a beast as the Schlager but it is going that way. I know the one with a pink handle only, I am not sure about the one I link to, I assume it's the same. 

- the Violin carbon (outer) is a bit dull, maybe because I was expecting too much, I wonder about the Violin inner. I did not try the acoustic carbon (inner or outer).

I could go on and on but...

If you have tried the MJ regular, I do not think you can find anything better for the looper who wants the fastest that still makes sense, they really hit the nail on its head with that blade.


Very helpful. I wish I could find someone in my club with JM blade, so I could have a couple of hits with it. When I tried Amultart, I was expecting it to be a notch faster than Viscaria, but it really didn't feel that way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cmugica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 9:03am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Control of what?
Should't have asked. They won't understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 11:52am
Originally posted by cmugica cmugica wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Control of what?
Should't have asked. They won't understand.

It's not that people don't understand. It's a "it goes without saying" question that people don't need to spend time explaining. 

When I say use the word control in the context of very fast set up with key word such a looping and if you still need further explanations on what it means, you got nothing to offer. No need to waste bandwidth. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 1:50pm
The Amultart has hinoki like outer, is sort of Schlager with ZLC instead of Tamca 5000, it.s 7.1mm thick.
The outer is so thick but softish and the ZLC does not kick as much as the thick brick wall on the Schlager. It can loop but is better for those who spin the necessary only, just to land on the table; the rest of the time, it's powerloop as flat a contact as possible, speed 1st!

The MJ has limba zlc limba and is 5.7mm, same core, thinner. So much better for the pure looper. But I hit whenever I can as soon as it's high enough I go for it, I can't help it and with Blitz 47.5 on both sides I played my best ever with that blade.

I would choose the MJ over the Amultart any day but trying both is no big of a  deal since if you buy them at a correct price, you'll sell the one you do not want very easily.

This blog where the pics above are from has more nice pics btw http://tabletennisin.blogspot.com/



Edited by stiltt - 10/20/2019 at 1:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

The Amultart has hinoki like outer, is sort of Schlager with ZLC instead of Tamca 5000, it.s 7.1mm thick.
The outer is so thick but softish and the ZLC does not kick as much as the thick brick wall on the Schlager. It can loop but is better for those who spin the necessary only, just to land on the table; the rest of the time, it's powerloop as flat a contact as possible, speed 1st!

The MJ has limba zlc limba and is 5.7mm, same core, thinner. So much better for the pure looper. But I hit whenever I can as soon as it's high enough I go for it, I can't help it and with Blitz 47.5 on both sides I played my best ever with that blade.

I would choose the MJ over the Amultart any day but trying both is no big of a  deal since if you buy them at a correct price, you'll sell the one you do not want very easily.

This blog where the pics above are from has more nice pics btw http://tabletennisin.blogspot.com/


This is really helpful. Thanks.
 
I've also read a bit into Garaydia series and it seems like the Garaydia ZLC is quite a fast blade yet can still be a decent blade to loop with. It's interesting that these newer series (thick blade with hinoki outer) from Butterfly never really picked up traction and people continue to stick with the traditional thinner blades like Viscaria with koto outer + ALC or other ones like Mizutani/Apolonia with limba outer + ZLC. 

I wish I could have some more playing time with the thicker blades like Garaydia ZLC and see how it performs with different rubbers, but these blades are relatively more rare. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2019 at 3:56pm
I did not try the garaydia zlc for more than 2 minutes at a time 2 or 3 times (a friend's, with the typical t05/t64 on it) but enough to say it is close enough to the amultart so what is said about one fits the other however the garaydia feels softer in my memory, the amultart dryer/crispier (if that means anything to you) and stiffer, the ball's energy will dissipate less in the amultart that I remember faster too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2019 at 1:25am
Ever tried Butterfly Photino?

I went from Photino to Viscaria. Photino is great for looping. Short game might be hard to control, but in the hands of a pro, it should not be a problem.

Outer layers are Hinoki. Feels great!

I could never find a good bh rubber for it. My technique was not well developed so I had to switch to a slower set-up.

FdT


Edited by Fulanodetal - 10/21/2019 at 1:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2019 at 1:46am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

Ever tried Butterfly Photino?

I went from Photino to Viscaria. Photino is great for looping. Short game might be hard to control, but in the hands of a pro, it should not be a problem.

Outer layers are Hinoki. Feels great!

I could never find a good bh rubber for it. My technique was not well developed so I had to switch to a slower set-up.

FdT

Yes, I've read about Photino while looking into very fast blades, although there wasn't too much information available. It seems like the composite is similar to Garaydia ZLC (Hinoki, ZLC, Kiri)? It seems like Photino uses ZLF instead of ZLC. All these variations really do confuse me to be honest. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2019 at 1:59am
That was in 2009, 1/4 finals U1800 in Vegas. Photino + T05 fh + Juic Air Condle (awesome) bh. That was a great setup, only ejing took me away from it. http://boudour.com/ttclips/sampleyaz/ (Internet Explorer).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2019 at 2:20am
I use Butterfly Mazunov with Dignics on both sides.  It is a rather fast setup, but I like the feel and control seems quite good.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vik2000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2019 at 12:28am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

That was in 2009, 1/4 finals U1800 in Vegas. Photino + T05 fh + Juic Air Condle (awesome) bh. That was a great setup, only ejing took me away from it. http://boudour.com/ttclips/sampleyaz/ (Internet Explorer).

I couldn't get the video to load unfortunately :(. Says plugin not supported. 

It seems like you've been through lots of blades! What are you using lately? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2019 at 1:03am
Xiom Vega pro fl, a sort of mj but lighter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2019 at 1:30am
How abt the infamous butterfly gergely with some tensor, that sure is a pretty fast blade that I've seen many old gen players use. 
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