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Waldner Cup China vs the World 2022

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    Posted: 12/07/2021 at 3:07pm
Waldner Cup was just revealed in a Swedish newspaper. 

They are calling it The Ryder Cup of Table Tennis. A team tournament where The World team plays team China. First tournament to be held in Oslo next year!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2021 at 5:37pm
Yoooo
This is so cool
Can't wait to see this actually
And i hope there are real stakes or pedigree behind this tournament, so both teams can play well.
The male team clash is surely gonna be tantalizing:
                                   Imagine
TH + LYJ + DO (or Timo if he's still playing or not injured/resting cos he loves stuff like this lol) + HC + MF ( since sweden is hosting, or  TM since he's the recent finalist at the WTTC).
                                    VS
FZD, WCQ, LJK, LGY, ZQH ( I Imagine if ML and XX sit this one out)


I fancy the chances of the World team good. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2021 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by troubadour troubadour wrote:

MF ( since sweden is hosting, or  TM since he's the recent finalist at the WTTC).


Well, Norway is hosting (Oslo), so the team must include AW or BH rather than MF or TM Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 7:22am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by troubadour troubadour wrote:

MF ( since sweden is hosting, or  TM since he's the recent finalist at the WTTC).


Well, Norway is hosting (Oslo), so the team must include AW or BH rather than MF or TM Wink
oh my bad, I must have been dreaming when i typed that. I don't think Norway has any players that are strong enough though. Maybe someone from sweden, korea or germany will join
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magnuseffect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 7:34am
Yeah Borgar Haug (BH) probably is not ranked high enough. But since there is a Para tournament I think Norway will be representend by Tommy Urhaugh (weelchair) and maybe Aida Dahlen (class 8).

I think its likely it will be hosted in Sweden the next time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manwithabigmission Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 8:24am
It reads that there will be Swedish participation no matter what because of the name Waldner cup. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 9:09am
1.First of all, it needs to be a merit process. Unfortunately, I suspect they will democratize it and include Kanak and Quadri though I would much rather prefer the strongest team regardless of country of origin.  But the democratization might help with spectators and fan bases.

2.  Secondly, I want China to play its A-Team on all days.  I suspect China won't have its A-Team play all the matches and may even deliberately lets its B-Team and graduated juniors get in to make the match look more competitive.  Again, the merits of this are debatable.

3.  Finally, I want young and promising talent over old talent, merit regardless.  Truls over Falck, Kallberg over Timo, Harimoto, Hugo and Lin Yun Ju over anyone, and of course, Lim Jung Hoon/An Jaehyun over Lee Sang Su/Jung Youngsik.

4.  As a last possibility, each team can have 10 players and play in order of 1 to 10.  That would let the A-Team play and the World handle its democraization without weakening the team but I still want younger talent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chongqinghotpot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 1:26pm
I thought this has been going on for decades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manwithabigmission Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

1.First of all, it needs to be a merit process. Unfortunately, I suspect they will democratize it and include Kanak and Quadri though I would much rather prefer the strongest team regardless of country of origin.  But the democratization might help with spectators and fan bases.

2.  Secondly, I want China to play its A-Team on all days.  I suspect China won't have its A-Team play all the matches and may even deliberately lets its B-Team and graduated juniors get in to make the match look more competitive.  Again, the merits of this are debatable.

3.  Finally, I want young and promising talent over old talent, merit regardless.  Truls over Falck, Kallberg over Timo, Harimoto, Hugo and Lin Yun Ju over anyone, and of course, Lim Jung Hoon/An Jaehyun over Lee Sang Su/Jung Youngsik.

4.  As a last possibility, each team can have 10 players and play in order of 1 to 10.  That would let the A-Team play and the World handle its democraization without weakening the team but I still want younger talent.

Absolutely. Falck in singles have been our nr4 ever since the Olympics. I rate Truls, Källberg and Karlsson over him at the moment. I also agree that I want younger blood. I hope china enters with their best and your solution of 10 players per team could be good since china could then also enter players like Xiang Peng or Lin Shidong (I hope).


Edited by manwithabigmission - 12/08/2021 at 4:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

1.First of all, it needs to be a merit process. ...

If they are copying Ryder Cup here (not sure), then it's not a 100% merit-based there and it did not hurt its popularity. Captain picks exist there. TT is not golf, of course, but I think there has to be some wiggle room.

Ryder Cup is a pretty big thing (despite no prize money involved, AFAIK) , so if they manage to reproduce the excitement and prestige, more power to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2021 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

1.First of all, it needs to be a merit process. ...

If they are copying Ryder Cup here (not sure), then it's not a 100% merit-based there and it did not hurt its popularity. Captain picks exist there. TT is not golf, of course, but I think there has to be some wiggle room.

Ryder Cup is a pretty big thing (despite no prize money involved, AFAIK) , so if they manage to reproduce the excitement and prestige, more power to them.

Ryder Cup is merit based.  Never asked for 100%.   But in many years when they did Asia vs Europe, it was largely by invitation. And China could send the unknown champion to beat Europeans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2021 at 3:51am
In the interview published on Nov 25, LGL mentioned that Waldner approached LGL with the idea at the Swedish Open 2019. He told LGL if he had Harimoto and LYJ on the team along with European players, he could beat China. LGL said let's do it. They will come up with their own rules and picks.

https://sports.cctv.com/2021/11/25/VIDEn0nf38SQ7FvrpEefnjL9211125.shtml
https://w.yangshipin.cn/video?type=0&vid=b000031ywov
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV11Q4y1v7vb
Waldner approached LGL with an idea at the Swedish Open 2019.
Waldner wanted to hold a table tennis version of Ryder Cup.
One year in Europe called Waldner Cup; one year in China called LGL Cup.
Waldner and LGL as the team leaders, respectively.
Waldner will pick the best players from around the world; LGL will pick th best players from China.
1-year home game.
They will decide on the number of players and format of competition.
LGL said why not, even better, use it to rebuild the Swedish TT, even the European TT with the pull of Waldner.
LGL says every player who beats a CNT player is a hero. Waldner is the biggest hero.
LGL asked why he doesn't coach the Swedish team, understands that he has his reasons but Waldner still has that spirit in his heart.
Waldner said if he has Harimoto and LYJ on the team along with European players, there's a chance he could beat China.

Edited by zeio - 12/10/2021 at 4:50am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2021 at 8:25am
Hi,

The problem with "merit based" in our sport is that we only have the ITTF World Rankings as a centralized performance representation.  Golf has their tour rankings which work very well for them as they do reflect recent performances accurately because of the consistency of participation of the top golfers.  In tennis, they also are well positioned to employ merit, for the same reason.

For our sport, we would need a sophisticated algorithm using selected tournaments and a points system to derive something systematically.   It sounds as if Waldner is thinking "coach's selection" to compose his team.  That would then apply to the Chinese side.

Our sport doesn't have "majors" as golf and tennis do, so we are left with the ITTF system of competition categorization which is not too helpful as the participation is very arbitrary.  

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoAss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2021 at 8:48am
I'd put stock in merit-based team composition, with the underlying selection mechanism being JOW and LGL themselves.

Edited by YoAss - 12/10/2021 at 8:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2021 at 5:13am
Team World = Great Disappointment.

https://www.liuguolianglao-wacup.com/cup

Edited by zeio - 12/14/2021 at 5:14am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2021 at 8:18am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Team World = Great Disappointment.

https://www.liuguolianglao-wacup.com/cup

Hi,

The concept of the Waldner Cup is excellent, exactly the correct thinking for our sport.

From the link above: The preliminary and incomplete selection of players shown in the link is not in the correct spirit of the event.  Aida is a good selection as she is at the top of the world in her class.  However, having two players from the same country on a very limited team roster is not world-representing.  It is China versus The World (which is a big place.)

It being held in Europe, with a World Team Captain being European, the commercial value of Germany is too much to resist.

Thanks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote troubadour Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2021 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Team World = Great Disappointment.

https://www.liuguolianglao-wacup.com/cup
Big let down yano, I was thinking at least 5 male players at least since that is where the world is more competitive against China.
Boll and Ovtcharov have too much influence in Europe, things can be done differently, Where are the youngers??
World does not mean "Europe". Better to Just clarify this cup as China vs Europe 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/14/2021 at 2:34pm
It would be fun if one match is LGL Vs Waldner. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mytoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2021 at 9:01am
The format, number of players and the selection is not ready. There will be changes from this preliminary information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2021 at 9:40am
Covid is still playing havoc with this. I mean HT and LYJ are not going to travel to Sweden right now for a made-up event.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manwithabigmission Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2021 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Covid is still playing havoc with this. I mean HT and LYJ are not going to travel to Sweden right now for a made-up event.  

It's in Norway in like July next year???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magnuseffect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2021 at 11:51am
Originally posted by manwithabigmission manwithabigmission wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Covid is still playing havoc with this. I mean HT and LYJ are not going to travel to Sweden right now for a made-up event.  

It's in Norway in like July next year???


Yeah, the covid situation in Norway right now is not great but last two years its been almost nothing in Summer.
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