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Was this kid's technique really wrong

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2013 at 5:10pm
The main thing to me is that Schlager's lesson helps to integrate the footwork with the shot being played.
in the old days a forehand was thought of as mainly an arm movement.
Now we see a forehand starts with
Transition and movement from the previous shot
then execution, followed by recovery, flowing into transition for the next shot.
It is very like dance choreography, with fhs from the bh corner being executed differently from fhs from fh corner. Some of the older style coaches dont get this at all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommy16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2013 at 5:48pm
.
Originally posted by tt4me tt4me wrote:

[QUOTE=Tommy16]
Okay, you as you said the kid is not a beginner. So what do you think that is more important than learn how to move correctly?
It is hard to say without seeing the kid play.  We can't see if he has more severe weaknesses.

I agree that moving is very important.  It is clear the kid was doing better in the second video but he still wasn't moving like Schlager.  Schlager can move where he wants in one step because he is bigger that's all.

I know moving correctly is important.  Moving wrong can result in a broken wrist :(


No worries, wrist issues are more or less age and occupational issues. Maybe too much or too less guitar playing in stead of tabletennis:). Interresting topic all and allClap
What is the point of playing safe shots when you can miss with style

My feedback: http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67171&KW=&PID=811763&title=tommy16-feedback#811763
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puppy412 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2013 at 6:16pm
another coach basically saying the exact opposite to schlager (look at 1:37)





Edited by puppy412 - 11/01/2013 at 6:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2013 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by puppy412 puppy412 wrote:

another coach basically saying the exact opposite to schlager (look at 1:37)



And the video's title is.... "Footworks for beginners"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collins.latag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2013 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by ZApenholder ZApenholder wrote:

Originally posted by fiveplyian fiveplyian wrote:

Same kid with Werner Schlager.

BH - FH drill from 20 secs on ..... better view point.



Spot the difference Smile


Was this video taken after the talk?
The kid is playing in 1 motion, which is much better than his previous (more normal/outdated method)

See how he finish his forhand with weight on left feet. and that helped him move into BH ready stance much quicker and smoother. No need for a 2nd movement to do that.


 
And some said he was too small. :) it just takes practice... :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/01/2013 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by puppy412 puppy412 wrote:

another coach basically saying the exact opposite to schlager (look at 1:37)







Puppy
you are too much focussed on the words and the method of teaching. That coach is also trying to integrate the movement with the preparation of the stroke. That coach is doing very well with a large class, maybe exaggerating a few things to get the message across but essentially its the same kind of thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2013 at 9:35am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Away from the table gives more time to get your stroke in, but also give your opponent more time to react and gives you more court to cover, there is no 'easier' but in general its more effective to get the stroke in as early as possible because you give your opponent less time to react. On the other hand, if you are being out paced at the table, you can slow the tempo by playing at mid distance, but its not a good option if your footwork is not of a decent quality.
 
A block has less spin/energy on the ball than a regular topspin stroke. Is it easier or more effective to take a block quicker off the bounce ? A regular topspin shot has more energy/effective spin as it gains momentum up to a point where it starts dissipating, so is it easier or more effective to take it early or later ? If you take the ball later you allow any attached sidespin to become a more important factor even it is a block or regular stroke.
 
Blocking has changed massively since it was first used in the 1960's and 70's to smother heavy slow topspin, although that old method can still be applied ( and still is by older players) its possible now to play a passive block against incoming topspin off the table far easier since the ball size increased. There is little stroke production and weight transfer, which is why blocking is 'easy' and when taken later, rather than contacted over the table the old way, less chance of over rating the amount of topspin and blocking in the net. Slightly off the table = more open bat and less risk.
Club players often wrongly attack an opponents weaker wing with pace, allowing them to return the ball just by making contact, when a far better option is to play flatter and more passively to that wing and expose their lack of confidence in stroke production by making them have to play a positive stroke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2013 at 9:49am
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Away from the table gives more time to get your stroke in, but also give your opponent more time to react and gives you more court to cover, there is no 'easier' but in general its more effective to get the stroke in as early as possible because you give your opponent less time to react. On the other hand, if you are being out paced at the table, you can slow the tempo by playing at mid distance, but its not a good option if your footwork is not of a decent quality.
 
A block has less spin/energy on the ball than a regular topspin stroke. Is it easier or more effective to take a block quicker off the bounce ? A regular topspin shot has more energy/effective spin as it gains momentum up to a point where it starts dissipating, so is it easier or more effective to take it early or later ? If you take the ball later you allow any attached sidespin to become a more important factor even it is a block or regular stroke.
 
Blocking has changed massively since it was first used in the 1960's and 70's to smother heavy slow topspin, although that old method can still be applied ( and still is by older players) its possible now to play a passive block against incoming topspin off the table far easier since the ball size increased. There is little stroke production and weight transfer, which is why blocking is 'easy' and when taken later, rather than contacted over the table the old way, less chance of over rating the amount of topspin and blocking in the net. Slightly off the table = more open bat and less risk.
Sorry, I didn't clarify properly. I was referring to how the kid should take the block or regular topspin and the potential problems of early or late.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2013 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Away from the table gives more time to get your stroke in, but also give your opponent more time to react and gives you more court to cover, there is no 'easier' but in general its more effective to get the stroke in as early as possible because you give your opponent less time to react. On the other hand, if you are being out paced at the table, you can slow the tempo by playing at mid distance, but its not a good option if your footwork is not of a decent quality.
 
A block has less spin/energy on the ball than a regular topspin stroke. Is it easier or more effective to take a block quicker off the bounce ? A regular topspin shot has more energy/effective spin as it gains momentum up to a point where it starts dissipating, so is it easier or more effective to take it early or later ? If you take the ball later you allow any attached sidespin to become a more important factor even it is a block or regular stroke.
 
Blocking has changed massively since it was first used in the 1960's and 70's to smother heavy slow topspin, although that old method can still be applied ( and still is by older players) its possible now to play a passive block against incoming topspin off the table far easier since the ball size increased. There is little stroke production and weight transfer, which is why blocking is 'easy' and when taken later, rather than contacted over the table the old way, less chance of over rating the amount of topspin and blocking in the net. Slightly off the table = more open bat and less risk.
Sorry, I didn't clarify properly. I was referring to how the kid should take the block or regular topspin and the potential problems of early or late.
 I think I gave the answer above.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/02/2013 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

Originally posted by APW46 APW46 wrote:

Away from the table gives more time to get your stroke in, but also give your opponent more time to react and gives you more court to cover, there is no 'easier' but in general its more effective to get the stroke in as early as possible because you give your opponent less time to react. On the other hand, if you are being out paced at the table, you can slow the tempo by playing at mid distance, but its not a good option if your footwork is not of a decent quality.



 
A block has less spin/energy on the ball than a regular topspin stroke. Is it easier or more effective to take a block quicker off the bounce ? A regular topspin shot has more energy/effective spin as it gains momentum up to a point where it starts dissipating, so is it easier or more effective to take it early or later ? If you take the ball later you allow any attached sidespin to become a more important factor even it is a block or regular stroke.
 
Blocking has changed massively since it was first used in the 1960's and 70's to smother heavy slow topspin, although that old method can still be applied ( and still is by older players) its possible now to play a passive block against incoming topspin off the table far easier since the ball size increased. There is little stroke production and weight transfer, which is why blocking is 'easy' and when taken later, rather than contacted over the table the old way, less chance of over rating the amount of topspin and blocking in the net. Slightly off the table = more open bat and less risk.



Sorry, I didn't clarify properly. I was referring to how the kid should take the block or regular topspin and the potential problems of early or late.

 I think I gave the answer above.Smile


LuckyLoop
really this deserves a different topic
but..
Its about risks and rewards
Early Risks:-
Greater difficulty, less time, no fallback options
Early Rewards:-
less time for opponent too, good control of angles

Late Risks:-
More running to cover angles, more time for opponent
Late Rewards:-
More Time to play and make big shots, more fallback options eg lob chop occasionally.


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