Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - When will we play Table Tennis again?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhen will we play Table Tennis again?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 23>
Author
MrLee4ATTC View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/19/2020
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Direct Link To This Post Topic: When will we play Table Tennis again?
    Posted: 04/20/2020 at 8:46am
Obviously, the million-dollar question right now is, “When are we going to be able to play Table Tennis again?” Here’s an interesting article that doesn’t exactly answer the question, but it provides some relevant information: 

 
Thoughts?
Lee
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 10:10am
It will depend on circumstances where someone lives.  Is wont be the same everywhere.


Back to Top
MrLee4ATTC View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/19/2020
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 10:38am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

It will depend on circumstances where someone lives.  Is wont be the same everywhere.



Agreed - take a look at the article. It gives different timeframes for different cities...
Lee
Back to Top
TT newbie View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/25/2011
Location: Far Far Away
Status: Offline
Points: 1129
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 11:02am
If you don´t have a table at home (I don´t) I believe it will take some weeks, maybe months.
The governor shows no sigh of ending the quarantine soon, it would be April 22nd, now it´s May 10th, but everybody knows it will take longer than that.
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 466
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 12:34pm
The article is mostly worthless. It doesn't state what the assumptions are in the models. I expect small changes in assumptions will lead to large differences in outcomes.

Who knows how fast the virus will spread in an indoor stadium with 20,000 cheering fans.

For reference, in Washington state, one of the big virus clusters was in a choir. Even though the choir was informed that the virus was going around, half of the members showed up to practice.

45 of 60 got sick, 2 died.
Back to Top
igorponger View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/29/2006
Location: Third planet to the Sun
Status: Offline
Points: 2847
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 12:37pm
   WITHIN A YEAR, OR SO ...
ITTF wants all international players got vaccinated prior to entering an event.
Those players with inoculation certficate will get passage to international events. Safety first.
NOTE: It is believed cautiously, anti-virus vaccine should be available within a year, or so.

Edited by igorponger - 04/20/2020 at 12:43pm
Back to Top
tom View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 11/18/2013
Location: canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2379
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 1:25pm
Aug / Sep would be a  good guess  
Back to Top
benfb View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 10/10/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 1:53pm
In North America, I'd guess mid-May for club play in most states that aren't focus points.  For hot spots such as NYC, it could be mid-July.  For professional play, I could imagine players getting tested and playing without live audiences.
Back to Top
heavyspin View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 08/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 2:13pm
Are there any legal service motions where the ball would be hidden by the server's protective face mask?
A masseuse practicing social distancing rubs me the wrong way.
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 2:15pm
Frankly I doubt that the audience in the bleachers is a major factor so ITTF problem is easier to solve than tennis where, for a typical grand slam event, 50% of the gross revenue is attendance and concessions.

For tennis, if tickets and concessions are about 50% of gross revenue (see 2017 us open breakdown) and the events are played with empty bleachers, a boxing style formula where people pay to watch online is a route among others. No doubt many unable to attend physically will pay so those 50% revenue are not all lost. Aging players counting their grand slams will prefer playing in an empty stadium than losing a whole year. All players will, even for 1/2 the money (I hope). It's a no-brainer, just do it! However...Maybe some contracts already signed a long time ago are in the way, how could we ever have anticipated this covid mess?


In table tennis, do the same. If needed, fly people to the same location for all events for a while with protocols to keep people safe but above all, MAKE THEM PLAY, their career is so short, they can't afford not to play while they are in their prime while us fans can't afford too long a time without watching them.

Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 1311
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

   WITHIN A YEAR, OR SO ...
ITTF wants all international players got vaccinated prior to entering an event.
Those players with inoculation certficate will get passage to international events. Safety first.
NOTE: It is believed cautiously, anti-virus vaccine should be available within a year, or so.

igor must be a close "friend "of top officials at ittf
Back to Top
longrange View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 04/12/2019
Location: Genova
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 4:31pm
Judging by the state of affairs with SARS/MERS vaccines, there's not going to be any useful vaccine against covid-19. Officials here and there claim that "self-isolations" are likely to be continued in fall and next spring and maybe next fall. So, unless the pandemic is fully suppressed...
Back to Top
Lightspin View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/11/2018
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 202
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 5:54pm
Is this a joke? International players are going to need an inoculation certificate to play? Where did you read this?
Back to Top
jfolsen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 03/15/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 888
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 5:57pm
When you can go get a haircut at a salon.
Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 997
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 6:25pm
Hi,

In the totality of the evidence we have available to us indicates that all proposed dependencies on a vaccine deployment as a condition for any re-opening in any of its forms will completely collapse; never will that requirement have a breath of life in it.

Rapidly and irresistibly the strategic capability of disappearing Sweden from other countries' thought and policies by those so motivated is crumbling like stale bread.  Felt pressure from that Nordic country's role modeling has already resulted in several loosening responses in Europe. 

Thanks.
Technique is a false culture.
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

In the totality of the evidence we have available to us indicates that all proposed dependencies on a vaccine deployment as a condition for any re-opening in any of its forms will completely collapse; never will that requirement have a breath of life in it.

Rapidly and irresistibly the strategic capability of disappearing Sweden from other countries' thought and policies by those so motivated is crumbling like stale bread.  Felt pressure from that Nordic country's role modeling has already resulted in several loosening responses in Europe. 

Thanks.
Yes, they can rely on much praised discipline from all though. 

From https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/sweden-says-controversial-covid-19-strategy-is-proving-effective:

“Our measures are all based on individuals taking responsibility, and that is also an important part of the Swedish model,”

In the USA the pressure for business to restart is too huge so with the cucumber's encouragements, people will start going outside and back to work and it is fair to predict new surge of covid-19. Then in the impossibility to stop everything again, we will follow the Sweadish model with strict rules: Chances are we will apply them with an extreme severity from law enforcement. Expect police brutality towards people not complying with elementary behaviors like wearing a mask in public spaces and respecting a minimum distance. This is easy to anticipate since American police forces have a minimum education and over very normal situations they are already more inclined to escalate rather than defuse a sensitive situation. 

Short story short, when the de-confinement starts in USA (where it applies), get ready to apply a strict protocol when going outside or face legal trouble in addition of physical brutality.


Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 7:45pm
I don't think we will have a vaccine particularly soon, but we might get lucky. 

Some areas are going to try to open up and we will see if there is a massive second spike or not.  This worries me but I also get that we can't hide forever or at some point we will be back to living in caves. 

With that said, as much as I miss it, TT is a sport that would have a near maximum of ways to spread the virus, so I am personally extremely hesitant.  I will come back when I feel safe.  My guess?  Fall sometime.




Edited by Baal - 04/20/2020 at 7:51pm
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by qpskfec qpskfec wrote:

I expect small changes in assumptions will lead to large differences in outcomes.

Who knows how fast the virus will spread in an indoor stadium with 20,000 cheering fans.

For reference, in Washington state, one of the big virus clusters was in a choir. Even though the choir was informed that the virus was going around, half of the members showed up to practice.

45 of 60 got sick, 2 died.


Actually a feature of the University of Washington model that is widely used is, apparently, exactly that --- it is extremely sensitive to fairly small changes in assumptions.  I would not be very reassured by what they predict.
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 10:21pm
One thing to notice in that crisis is the triumph of the internet.  Imagine yourself now with AOL 56K and a Nokia with 60 min talking/100 texts a month.
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 466
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/20/2020 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't think we will have a vaccine particularly soon, but we might get lucky. 



Hopefully these researchers will get lucky with a vaccine based on MERS.

https://www.jpost.com/International/Oxford-team-80-percent-confident-will-have-vaccine-available-by-September-624373

"A team of scientists in Oxford, England, believe they may have a viable vaccine for the coronavirus ready by September.
Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at Oxford University, has told The Times of London that she is 80% certain that the vaccine her team are working on will be successful in inoculating against COVID-19."



Edited by qpskfec - 04/20/2020 at 11:23pm
Back to Top
smackman View Drop Down
Assistant Moderator
Assistant Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 07/20/2009
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 3176
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 2:19am
I don't mind waiting, I think some players might never shake hands again

Edited by smackman - 04/21/2020 at 2:22am
Ulmo Duality,Joola Tango red max ,Dr N black aggressor
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website,
Back to Top
kuifje View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/06/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 4:04am
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

Judging by the state of affairs with SARS/MERS vaccines, there's not going to be any useful vaccine against covid-19. Officials here and there claim that "self-isolations" are likely to be continued in fall and next spring and maybe next fall. So, unless the pandemic is fully suppressed...

You can't really apply on what happened with SARS/MERS to COVID-19. SARS/MERS are more or less under control (SARS is no longer around, MERS is only found occasionally at the moment) but because of the relative low numbers there is not much of an incentive for pharmaceutical companies to develop vaccines for these. Work started on that, but funding in that area remained limited and the pace of vaccine development for these has therefore been very slow. On the other hand, pets can get corona-viruses, and there are vaccines available for these (eg the canine enteric coronavirus). I therefore see no reason that a SARS-CoV2 vaccine cannot be developed.
Back to Top
longrange View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 04/12/2019
Location: Genova
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 9:10am
Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

but because of the relative low numbers there is not much of an incentive for pharmaceutical companies to develop vaccines for these

Well, you see, the quoted statement is what you are usually told and that's exactly what I don't buy.
Just because people took SARS/MERS under control doesn't mean nobody tried producing vaccines. They have tried and failed. For a reason:

The rabbits developed antibodies against viral proteins that lacked neutralizing activity and the animals were not protected from reinfection. In fact, reinfection resulted in enhanced pulmonary inflammation, without an associated increase in viral RNA titers.

Neutralizing antibody was induced by vaccine with and without adjuvant and lung virus was reduced in vaccinated mice after challenge. Lung mononuclear infiltrates occurred in all groups after virus challenge but with increased infiltrates that contained eosinophils and increases in the eosinophil promoting IL-5 and IL-13 cytokines only in the vaccine groups. Inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine appears to carry a hypersensitive-type lung pathology risk from MERS-CoV infection that is similar to that found with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines from SARS-CoV infection.

Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

A Double-Inactivated Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Vaccine Provides Incomplete Protection in Mice and Induces Increased Eosinophilic Proinflammatory Pulmonary Response upon Challenge


Edited by longrange - 04/21/2020 at 9:12am
Back to Top
kuifje View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/06/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 9:54am
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:

Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

but because of the relative low numbers there is not much of an incentive for pharmaceutical companies to develop vaccines for these

Well, you see, the quoted statement is what you are usually told and that's exactly what I don't buy.
Just because people took SARS/MERS under control doesn't mean nobody tried producing vaccines. They have tried and failed. For a reason:

The rabbits developed antibodies against viral proteins that lacked neutralizing activity and the animals were not protected from reinfection. In fact, reinfection resulted in enhanced pulmonary inflammation, without an associated increase in viral RNA titers.

Neutralizing antibody was induced by vaccine with and without adjuvant and lung virus was reduced in vaccinated mice after challenge. Lung mononuclear infiltrates occurred in all groups after virus challenge but with increased infiltrates that contained eosinophils and increases in the eosinophil promoting IL-5 and IL-13 cytokines only in the vaccine groups. Inactivated MERS-CoV vaccine appears to carry a hypersensitive-type lung pathology risk from MERS-CoV infection that is similar to that found with inactivated SARS-CoV vaccines from SARS-CoV infection.

Immunization with Modified Vaccinia Virus Ankara-Based Recombinant Vaccine against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Is Associated with Enhanced Hepatitis in Ferrets

A Double-Inactivated Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Vaccine Provides Incomplete Protection in Mice and Induces Increased Eosinophilic Proinflammatory Pulmonary Response upon Challenge

Sure, that's how science works - it is built on failure - so there will be a number of failures before a positive outcome is reached. Also note that all of the studies you quote are in animal models (rabbits, mice, ferrets), and they don't always translate well to human disease. 

There are currently dozens of potential candidates, and I would be surprised if none of provide some kind of protection. I think the bigger question is how long immunity will last. Immunity in general against corona viruses after illness tends to be fairly short lived (about a year or so) so would we need repeated boosters to maintain immunity against SARS-CoV2?  However, vaccines can generate a stronger and longer-lasting immune response, so perhaps it is not needed (FYI I've got a PhD in microbiology with 25+ years experience in research). 


Edited by kuifje - 04/21/2020 at 10:20am
Back to Top
longrange View Drop Down
Beginner
Beginner


Joined: 04/12/2019
Location: Genova
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 10:32am
Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

Sure, that's how science works - it is built on failure - so will be a number of failures before a positive outcome is reached.
...or not reached.
Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

Also note that all of the studies you quote are in animal models (rabbits, mice, ferrets), and they don't always translate well to human disease.
and all of these studies have terminated on this very stage. Because one -- well, generally -- cannot test on humans what is dangerous already for animals. This is not to say that your statement is incorrect.
Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

There are currently dozens of potential candidates, and I would be surprised if none of provide some kind of protection. I think the bigger question is how long immunity will last. Immunity in general against corona viruses after illness tends to be fairly short lived (about a year or so) so would we need repeated boosters to maintain immunity against SARS-CoV2?  However, vaccines can generate a stronger and longer-lasting immune response, so perhaps it is not needed
(FYI I've got a PhD in microbiology with 25+ years experience in research).

I don't see how pharma rushing for money and breaking existing protocols should make me optimistic about all this vaccine story because -- and that's my research experience -- rushing doesn't bring anything good. But we can agree that that's my problem.

Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 10:53am
I think the efforts and $ being devoted to this are pretty much unprecedented, and there are some interesting new technologies like microarray patches and such. So maybe we will get a vaccine sooner than usual, but the most optimistic view says we are going to be coping with this thing for quite awhile. Almost certainly some efficacious therapeutic agent will come before a vaccine ( but since my PhD is in pharmacology that could just be my bias).  No guarantees though on any of this.

Edited by Baal - 04/21/2020 at 10:56am
Back to Top
kuifje View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/06/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 11:09am
Originally posted by longrange longrange wrote:


Originally posted by kuifje kuifje wrote:

Also note that all of the studies you quote are in animal models (rabbits, mice, ferrets), and they don't always translate well to human disease.
and all of these studies have terminated on this very stage. Because one -- well, generally -- cannot test on humans what is dangerous already for animals. This is not to say that your statement is incorrect.



Whatever your misgivings, things are moving ahead. There are 3 vaccine candidates in phase I clinical trials (i.e. being tested in small numbers of human volunteers), and one of those is moving into phase II (meaning it was deemed safe in phase I). A further 67 are in the preclinical phase - and that was 10 days ago so more are moving into phase I. I'm aware of at least one from the University of Oxford which goes into clinical trials very soon (next week I think).


As I said before, a bigger hurdle may be how long immunity lasts, and another one that will take time is the scaling up of manufacturing once a good candidate has been found. 


Edited by kuifje - 04/21/2020 at 11:10am
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't think we will have a vaccine particularly soon, but we might get lucky. 

Some areas are going to try to open up and we will see if there is a massive second spike or not.  This worries me but I also get that we can't hide forever or at some point we will be back to living in caves. 

With that said, as much as I miss it, TT is a sport that would have a near maximum of ways to spread the virus, so I am personally extremely hesitant.  I will come back when I feel safe.  My guess?  Fall sometime.


May be just high dose of vitamin d will be thecure LOLLOL


Without vaccine or cure, the question is not "when", the question should be "are we brave enough to play tt at the club again?"

Anyway, we shall able to play tt at the end of this month LOL
The US states planning to reopen: Georgia, Tennessee and South Carolina join Texas in restarting their economies by easing stay-at-home restrictions

Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
kuifje View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 04/06/2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I think the efforts and $ being devoted to this are pretty much unprecedented, and there are some interesting new technologies like microarray patches and such. So maybe we will get a vaccine sooner than usual, but the most optimistic view says we are going to be coping with this thing for quite awhile. Almost certainly some efficacious therapeutic agent will come before a vaccine ( but since my PhD is in pharmacology that could just be my bias).  No guarantees though on any of this.

Yes, a therapeutic agent could well be developed earlier. A vaccine might be developed in, say, the next 6-9 months, but before it can be mass produced will take quite a bit more effort, probably 12 months at least. The amount of money thrown at this is indeed unprecedented - and this did not happen with SARS/MERS which is why these never got off the ground.
Back to Top
MrLee4ATTC View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/19/2020
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2020 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't think we will have a vaccine particularly soon, but we might get lucky. 

Some areas are going to try to open up and we will see if there is a massive second spike or not.  This worries me but I also get that we can't hide forever or at some point we will be back to living in caves. 

With that said, as much as I miss it, TT is a sport that would have a near maximum of ways to spread the virus, so I am personally extremely hesitant.  I will come back when I feel safe.  My guess?  Fall sometime.


May be just high dose of vitamin d will be thecure LOLLOL


Without vaccine or cure, the question is not "when", the question should be "are we brave enough to play tt at the club again?"

Anyway, we shall able to play tt at the end of this month LOL
The US states planning to reopen: Georgia, Tennessee and South Carolina join Texas in restarting their economies by easing stay-at-home restrictions



“Brave enough to play...” That’s an important detail and the one that is on my mind. For me, recreational ping pong and competitive table tennis both contribute significantly to my well being, physically, mentally and, yes, it’s true, even spiritually. So thinking about balancing out the risk/reward and timing/protocol of going back to the club to play are where my wandering mind goes with all this...  


Lee
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 23>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.