Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - When will we play Table Tennis again?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhen will we play Table Tennis again?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1920212223>
Author
roundrobin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/02/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 2:55am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Of Course, it does. If not, why the fxxk dr and nurse are wearing masks for LOLLOLLOL 

Having said that, I understand where "mask is uselessness" coming from

I think they wear them so they don't spit in someones wound.
ya, I think you are right. That was the original idea.


Try suctioning a patient with a trach tube, removing a leaking bloody chest tube or wound vac without wearing a face mask. You will know why immediately.

*It's also what literally preventing you from being killed when you take care of patients with cerebral meningitis or active tuberculosis...I have done them all for two years. Frankly, it's beyond heartbreaking that many people in this country still refuse to wear one in the midst of this COVID-19 outbreak, the biggest in the entire world.





Edited by roundrobin - 07/10/2020 at 3:31am
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 10:11am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Of Course, it does. If not, why the fxxk dr and nurse are wearing masks for LOLLOLLOL 

Having said that, I understand where "mask is uselessness" coming from

I think they wear them so they don't spit in someones wound.
ya, I think you are right. That was the original idea.

The ignorance  burns.  Censored
That is where it comes from. 

In a universe with karmic justice  people who refuse to wear masks would be required to undergo any future essential surgeries by doctors and nurses without masks or gloves. 


Edited by Baal - 07/10/2020 at 10:29am
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 10:19am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

Cole wrote

I just got an email from the state of Kansas mandating masks for any activity, but not allowing masks in any activity where the mask would become wet specifically running was mentioned

Was a wet mask more harmful to the one wearing it or did a wet mask potentially spread more virus than being without a mask?

Or did the just make the rule without explaining it?

I was planning on playing in a mask to help protect my playing partner and hoping they might do the same.  Now I am not sure what to do.

Mark

I have found that recommendation on the Mayo Clinic website.   I then spent quite  a  bit of time trying to find actual evidence that wet cloth masks are problematic in terms of failing to block droplet flux and cannot find any at all. None.  So I don't know the origin or basis for it.  It might be true but actual evidence would help me believe it it.  

I can say from experience while cycling that once they are wet it is hard to breathe through them,  so one tends to use your hands to mess around with them. That would be bad.

Solutions?  1.  Dont do sports indoors.   2.  Bring a bunch of cloth masks.  3.  Use a mask of different material  but know that the ones with one way valves don't protect other people. 


Edited by Baal - 07/10/2020 at 10:31am
Back to Top
wilkinru View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/28/2015
Location: Las Vegas
Status: Offline
Points: 583
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 10:39am
Vegas is closing down Bars tonight. They said Gyms are next if things do not improve. This may include TT clubs again.

I personally would be OK for my club to close down...but I have access to after/before hours.
TB ZLF
inverted
inverted
Back to Top
wilkinru View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/28/2015
Location: Las Vegas
Status: Offline
Points: 583
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 10:47am
I think as table tennis players we need to start looking at compromises. We aren't going to be 100% protected but we need some general rules to help.

1. Limit the amount of people in the club. How many per number of tables? Just remove some tables? I would like to see my club have scheduled blocks that I can sign up for.

2. Does moving air in and out help or hurt? This one seems to be currently researched. Should the club be moving air around and filtered or moving air in and then out?

3. Which masks help? How much does it help? We need a mask that balances breathing ability with safety.  I don't think we can N95 but at the same time we aren't at a hospital either. One thing I've noticed with my mask is that obviously I'm not touching my mouth/nose while playing with it on. I can't.

4. Hand sanitizer all over the clubs - maybe even on the table itself next to the net.

I think we could get back to a new normal with some solid guidelines - and with the logic that as we learn more we need to change with this knowledge.

TB ZLF
inverted
inverted
Back to Top
DonnOlsen View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/15/2008
Location: Maryland, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 997
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 10:59am
Hi,

it is here to stay and at some point we'll all get it

If this becomes true, it would be unique in human history.  No known pathogen has inflected every individual in a population. 

it's all about the race to a vaccine or a cure

Complete failure exists in the efforts to develop a vaccine for many, many known pathogens.  Many, many known pathogens have no medically-induced cure.

Among the most interesting subtexts of COVID-19 is pathogen uniqueness.  Necessary for the emotional stance of some is the acceptance of COVID-19 as a special disease in terms of both its biological state and its affect on humans.

The biological uniqueness state was initially and then continuously promoted from the idea of the virus being lab-created using advanced gene-altering technologies.  There seems to be persuasive evidence a lab fostered the isolation and release of the virus and less persuasive evidence that virus was altered from its in-nature constitution.  Although there is information from scientists on proof of this alleged alteration, the subsequent human consequences of the virus have swamped the general representation and reportage on the subject of COVID.

A thread accompanying the biological uniqueness state subtext is the touched-upon-here-and-there evidence of mutation.  Living in this discussion is the implication the mutation of the pathogen is of such a degree that both the vaccine solution effort and the cure solution effort are harmed.

The topic of biological uniqueness and its considerations affecting both the vaccine element and the cure element are important for public policy decisions and personal decisions concerning COVID.  Most direct and most visible are those statements declaring dependencies.  Utterances come in two forms, each specifying the specific dependency explicitly.  With variations noted, the two phrases are formulated as "not until a vaccine is available" and "not until there is a cure".

Little usage of these COVID-dependency sentiments were expressed until the initiatives were invoked, in incentive and forced forms, to move from the forced lockdown to society re-opening in its many areas.  This results in clashes of the highest emotional state and are, and to be ongoing, into the foreseeable future.  Influential guys like Bill Gates favor vaccine-dependent policies for all of society, supplemented with individual microchip implantation to ease the management of the surveillance. 

The other main dimension of the pathogen uniqueness topic highlighted here is the affect on humans.  The representation of this affect uniqueness by the pathogen uniqueness advocates manifests itself in a number of ways, with continuous energies applied to expand the list.  One affect uniqueness is the virus' contagiousness.  The virus is special because it is in the very upper station of human contagiousness among the known pathogens.  Another specialness declared is in the virus lethality.  The prospects of death are greater by a discernible degree than from other similar infectious pathogens.  A third characteristic of the virus affect on humans that sets it apart is its dormancy/asymptomatic possibilities, wherein the virus may inhabit an individual in a dormant, non-sickness-inducing state, cause no symptoms, yet be alive and well to either use the individual to distribute its young or burst out powerfully some time in the future in the individual, or both.  A fourth virus specialness is the range of symptoms being exceedingly large for one pathogen to engender.  From loss of the sense of smell or taste to the many otherwise mysterious body consequences not typically found in a upper respiratory disease so categorized.  A recent extension of this has been added in the form of the lasting damage to the recovered COVID patient, damage taking its place in many long term harmed organs and tissues.  A fifth biological quality that, it is argued, recommends a specialness attitude is the capacity of the virus to thrive in aerosol droplets of such minuteness that they may linger air borne long after their initial launch, existing unbeknownst to even the most cautious.

The perceptions of the precept of pathogen uniqueness are core to both public policy and individual decision making.  It is intertwined in the biggest decisions made.   As examples, Italy and Sweden, through their behavior, communicated the position that the virus contained insufficient uniqueness to justify national responses significantly distinct from the responses for other known pathogens of its type.  Though some concessions in the form of mask usage were encouraged, the fundamental national approach resembled a typical attitude toward a very strongly expressed infectious agent erupting in society, as they do periodically.  Other countries did, much more so, accept, in varying degrees and comparatively early in the awareness cycle, this precept and proceeded accordingly. 

Blanketing, in a fascinating way, in this period is the overlaid perspective on the time periods of this pathogen.  There are short term, medium term, and long term stages of infectious diseases affecting societies.  In defense of Sweden, it is argued the country has decided to front-load the misery.  In the medium and long term, the misery totality will not be greater and very possibly be, ultimately, less.  In this approach, the time period length of the COVID negative influence of the functioning of society will be greatly reduced, thus much high value will come of this, as the quality of life people seek occurs sooner and with more confidence than would be the case if the highly active period of the virus were to linger into many months, if not years.

I await the future which will produce book-length analyses of the COVID era in all the wisdom of hindsight.  Because so many different approaches have been taken at the national level around the world, to the unanswered questions of today will be brought convincing, scientifically-based evidence not now available as to the sagacity of the varied approaches.

Thanks.
Technique is a false culture.
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 11:12am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Try suctioning a patient with a trach tube, removing a leaking bloody chest tube or wound vac without wearing a face mask. You will know why immediately.

*It's also what literally preventing you from being killed when you take care of patients with cerebral meningitis or active tuberculosis...I have done them all for two years. Frankly, it's beyond heartbreaking that many people in this country still refuse to wear one in the midst of this COVID-19 outbreak, the biggest in the entire world.
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


The ignorance  burns.  Censored
That is where it comes from. 

In a universe with karmic justice  people who refuse to wear masks would be required to undergo any future essential surgeries by doctors and nurses without masks or gloves. 
haha, I feel so stupid now, may be Wink

May be because the field that I had studied. Mask is a PPE. So, that is my mindset. In fact, it can be both ways. So, it is not only used to protect the patients which that was not the statment from WHO until last month.

So, as I said before, use your critical thinking skills that you learned from school. 


P.S. I am sure the dr, and nurse know the fact. It is because even the first line nurses wear PPE too.


Edited by Egghead - 07/10/2020 at 11:13am
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 11:15am
outdoors pickleball FTW!!! or tennis? I am thinking of tennis more and more, I used to play, I always was a beginner but I can keep the ball in play with a fh, bh topspin and slice; not much of a serve anymore but it will come back...

Frankly, I hope for more concrete table tennis tables outdoors, that's where I'll play table tennis in a foreseeable future. However we have a few in Seattle and I have not seen more activity around them so far despite covid so I am not sure club players would temporarily switch for safety. There is some appeal in playing table tennis outdoors and much fun involved with the elements like a gust of wind when you are about to smash! It could be a nice way to safely wait for better days.
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 11:26am
Originally posted by wilkinru wilkinru wrote:

I think as table tennis players we need to start looking at compromises. We aren't going to be 100% protected but we need some general rules to help.

1. Limit the amount of people in the club. How many per number of tables? Just remove some tables? I would like to see my club have scheduled blocks that I can sign up for.
......

It helps but I don't know. Out of the blue, HK has double digits new cases daily. As I said before, you should only go to a club where you know alll players are responsible persons.
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 11:27am
Originally posted by stiltt stiltt wrote:

outdoors pickleball FTW!!! or tennis? I am thinking of tennis more and more, I used to play, I always was a beginner but I can keep the ball in play with a fh, bh topspin and slice; not much of a serve anymore but it will come back...

Frankly, I hope for more concrete table tennis tables outdoors, that's where I'll play table tennis in a foreseeable future. However we have a few in Seattle and I have not seen more activity around them so far despite covid so I am not sure club players would temporarily switch for safety. There is some appeal in playing table tennis outdoors and much fun involved with the elements like a gust of wind when you are about to smash! It could be a nice way to safely wait for better days.
In summer, I rather play outdoors pickleball, may be I am getting old LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Hi,

it is here to stay and at some point we'll all get it

If this becomes true, it would be unique in human history.  No known pathogen has inflected every individual in a population. 

it's all about the race to a vaccine or a cure


Few weeks ago, there was a rumour that the first few batch of vaccine would be effectively like flu shot (was it called vaccine before??? not remember). Anyway, I have a feeling that we will have coronvirus free zone in the near future DeadDeadDead
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
patrickhrdlicka View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Few weeks ago, there was a rumour that the first few batch of vaccine would be effectively like flu shot (was it called vaccine before??? not remember). Anyway, I have a feeling that we will have coronvirus free zone in the near future DeadDeadDead

Lots of early clinical trials, spanning traditional approaches as well as radically new and high-risk (i.e., probability of being unsuccessful) approaches. It is unclear if a vaccine can be developed (there are none against the other corona viruses - please correct me if wrong Baal) and if so how effective it will be. Pure speculation and hopes at this point.   

Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69419&title=feedback-patrickhrdlicka

Youtube channel: youtube.com/c/PatricksPingPongPassion

USATT rating: 2k+
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Few weeks ago, there was a rumour that the first few batch of vaccine would be effectively like flu shot (was it called vaccine before??? not remember). Anyway, I have a feeling that we will have coronvirus free zone in the near future DeadDeadDead

Lots of early clinical trials, spanning traditional approaches as well as radically new and high-risk (i.e., probability of being unsuccessful) approaches. It is unclear if a vaccine can be developed (there are none against the other corona viruses - please correct me if wrong Baal) and if so how effective it will be. Pure speculation and hopes at this point.   



I am confident we will have a vaccine for Covid-19, probably at some point in 2021.  There is a thread on TTD where I posted a lot about this and the various ways vaccines are made, why clinical trials for vaccines take a long time, and the nature of some of the new methods being used for this virus.  It is true that there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus in the past but it is not because it is impossible.  It is because there has never been the same compelling need.  SARS and MERS came and went pretty quickly. 

The quick summary is that there are three main approaches being used at various places around the world to develop a vaccine, two of which entail new technologies for vaccination.  One uses an mRNA that encodes a SARS-CoV-2 protein (usually the S-protein).  This is injected into the skin, packaged in a proprietary reagent that allows the protein  to be taken up into cells (and that is part of the secret sauce companies develop).  The cells then express the viral proteins on their surface.  The immune system sees the foreign proteins and makes antibodies etc. to them and the person becomes immune.  Moderna is the best known company using this approach (maybe the only one, I'm not sure).  It is a new method.  The second is to take a cold virus (called an adenovirus), engineer it to encode a few of the SARS-CoV-2 proteins, and spray it into someone's nose or inject it into the skin.  The cold virus infects the cells, which then make the SARS-CoV2 proteins, the immune system responds, etc. etc.  Several groups in Europe, China and the US are trying this approach.  It is also a new way to do it.  Finally, the tried and true approach is to simply inject people with SARS-Cov2 proteins just under the skin, and you get an immune response.  Several groups are doing this too.  The first two approaches have the advantage that you can scale up production much much faster but they are new methods.  The third method has the advantage that it is has highest likelihood of working.  But it is costly and slow to make enough of the proteins to produce millions of vaccinations.  Also these products are more unstable and require special packaging, more refrigeration, etc. etc.  But a lot of companies are good at this.

Clinical trials for vaccines take a long time, mainly in the third phase (which occurs after you have some data in a few people that it is safe and that it elicits an immune response at least for awhile, and have figured out a good dose).  Several vaccines are at the point (I think) where phase 3 clinical trials are beginning (and with vaccines it is possible to combine phase 2 and 3 in the same people). 

The Phase 3 trial takes a long time because it is not like a drug for Covid-19 (like remdesivir), where you give it to a sick person and after a few days or weeks you see if they get better based on criteria you state in advance. With a vaccine you are testing to see if it PREVENTS people from getting sick.  So you need a lot of people.  Some get the vaccine, some get the placebo, and then you wait a certain number of months while they go about their normal lives with periodic monitoring.  There need to be equal numbers of people in each group AND in the same geographical area, and matched for age and other features, but also randomized.  Then at some point you check and see how many got sick in each group.  To get a statistically meaningful result you need to wait long enough for a certain percentage of the control group to actually GET sick.  The more people in your trial, the stronger your statistical inference and the less time it takes but the more the trial costs.  Given the global crisis costs are less of a problem because governments are fitting more of the bill.  There are other considerations but that is the jist of it. 


Edited by Baal - 07/10/2020 at 2:39pm
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 2:35pm
A couple of other points worth mentioning.  We don't know how long people will remain immune to SARS-Cov2 after getting it or after vaccination.  Some reports show that some people who recovered show a decline in the amount of antibody detected in their blood after a few months, but that does not worry me so much because that is not a particularly good way to assess if someone can still mount an immune response if they are again exposed.  It is overly simplistic and ignores a lot of immunology.  Here is an instance where I agree with Egghead that press reporting is a bit over the top with doom and gloom.   

The reason people get flu shots every year is because the prevalent flu viruses are constantly mutating in ways that allow it to evade human immune systems but still be infectious, and also there are so many different influenza viruses out there and you are not sure in advance which one is going to be the dominant one in a given year. 

Two things about Covid-19 are that it doesn't appear to mutate at anywhere near the same rate, and also that a lot of the antibodies are against a surface protein of the virus that structural studies indicate is quite constrained in how much it can mutate and still allow the virus to infect people.  So that is something pretty fundamentally different between this coronavirus and influenza viruses.  And indeed, some people who had SARS 17 years ago have some degree of cross immunity to SARS-CoV2!!  This may also be true for some of the other coronaviruses that have infected most of us at some point in our lives.  (Maybe that is why a lot of people have relatively minor or no symptoms??).

So it may well be that we will need an occasional booster shot but (and I am guessing here, but informed guessing) but that it will be more like a tetanus shot than a flu shot.  You may need an occasional booster but maybe not a yearly one.


Edited by Baal - 07/10/2020 at 2:42pm
Back to Top
qpskfec View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/28/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 466
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 4:33pm
@baal

please comment on the article below, it implies that it's possible for large scale plasma antibody injections, but there are business issues preventing large scale deployment.

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-07-10/injection-prevent-coronavirus-feds-manufacturers-fail-to-act
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 4:50pm
I saw that.  I don't have much understanding of the business aspects of it.  Biologically it makes good sense given where we are right at the moment.  I would definitely put money into it if I was in charge of things.  This is one of those times when governments can do things that maybe companies shouldn't do.   

Personally over the long term I would rather take a cocktail of recombinant monoclonal antibodies (Regeneron has one in trial).  Safer, more controllable, more predictable.  But they are going to charge a blood fortune for the recombinant proteins (products like that for other conditions can go for thousands of dollars per month).  Still, lacking that, I would take the IgG infusion.  Again, the business and legal aspects of Big Pharma are better addressed by people who know stuff about business and law.  Not me.


Edited by Baal - 07/10/2020 at 4:54pm
Back to Top
wilkinru View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/28/2015
Location: Las Vegas
Status: Offline
Points: 583
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/10/2020 at 5:47pm
My company just announced Work from home until Jan 11th 2021 at least.
TB ZLF
inverted
inverted
Back to Top
allencorn View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/16/2020
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 12:55am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by patrickhrdlicka patrickhrdlicka wrote:

Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

Few weeks ago, there was a rumour that the first few batch of vaccine would be effectively like flu shot (was it called vaccine before??? not remember). Anyway, I have a feeling that we will have coronvirus free zone in the near future DeadDeadDead

Lots of early clinical trials, spanning traditional approaches as well as radically new and high-risk (i.e., probability of being unsuccessful) approaches. It is unclear if a vaccine can be developed (there are none against the other corona viruses - please correct me if wrong Baal) and if so how effective it will be. Pure speculation and hopes at this point.   



I am confident we will have a vaccine for Covid-19, probably at some point in 2021.  There is a thread on TTD where I posted a lot about this and the various ways vaccines are made, why clinical trials for vaccines take a long time, and the nature of some of the new methods being used for this virus.  It is true that there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus in the past but it is not because it is impossible.  It is because there has never been the same compelling need.  SARS and MERS came and went pretty quickly. 

The quick summary is that there are three main approaches being used at various places around the world to develop a vaccine, two of which entail new technologies for vaccination.  One uses an mRNA that encodes a SARS-CoV-2 protein (usually the S-protein).  This is injected into the skin, packaged in a proprietary reagent that allows the protein  to be taken up into cells (and that is part of the secret sauce companies develop).  The cells then express the viral proteins on their surface.  The immune system sees the foreign proteins and makes antibodies etc. to them and the person becomes immune.  Moderna is the best known company using this approach (maybe the only one, I'm not sure).  It is a new method.  The second is to take a cold virus (called an adenovirus), engineer it to encode a few of the SARS-CoV-2 proteins, and spray it into someone's nose or inject it into the skin.  The cold virus infects the cells, which then make the SARS-CoV2 proteins, the immune system responds, etc. etc.  Several groups in Europe, China and the US are trying this approach.  It is also a new way to do it.  Finally, the tried and true approach is to simply inject people with SARS-Cov2 proteins just under the skin, and you get an immune response.  Several groups are doing this too.  The first two approaches have the advantage that you can scale up production much much faster but they are new methods.  The third method has the advantage that it is has highest likelihood of working.  But it is costly and slow to make enough of the proteins to produce millions of vaccinations.  Also these products are more unstable and require special packaging, more refrigeration, etc. etc.  But a lot of companies are good at this.

Clinical trials for vaccines take a long time, mainly in the third phase (which occurs after you have some data in a few people that it is safe and that it elicits an immune response at least for awhile, and have figured out a good dose).  Several vaccines are at the point (I think) where phase 3 clinical trials are beginning (and with vaccines it is possible to combine phase 2 and 3 in the same people). 

The Phase 3 trial takes a long time because it is not like a drug for Covid-19 (like remdesivir), where you give it to a sick person and after a few days or weeks you see if they get better based on criteria you state in advance. With a vaccine you are testing to see if it PREVENTS people from getting sick.  So you need a lot of people.  Some get the vaccine, some get the placebo, and then you wait a certain number of months while they go about their normal lives with periodic monitoring.  There need to be equal numbers of people in each group AND in the same geographical area, and matched for age and other features, but also randomized.  Then at some point you check and see how many got sick in each group.  To get a statistically meaningful result you need to wait long enough for a certain percentage of the control group to actually GET sick.  The more people in your trial, the stronger your statistical inference and the less time it takes but the more the trial costs.  Given the global crisis costs are less of a problem because governments are fitting more of the bill.  There are other considerations but that is the jist of it. 

I read recently about human challenge trials, where people would be given either the vaccine or a placebo and then volunteer to be exposed to the virus, rather than just going about their lives and waiting to see who happened to get exposed and infected. A host of ethical issues, especially as there is no treatment if someone does get sick, but the argument was results might be obtained faster. Is any one actually considering this?

I also read that Phase 3 trials may not take as long if the virus is widespread in a community, so maybe the spike in cases and morons not wearing masks will have a plus side.
Back to Top
MrLee4ATTC View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 01/19/2020
Location: Austin, Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 8:03am
I just saw this:

Coronavirus filter
Researchers from the University of Houston, in collaboration with others, have designed a “catch and kill” air filter that can trap the virus responsible for COVID-19, killing it instantly.

Researchers from the University of Houston, in collaboration with others, have designed a “catch and kill” air filter that can trap the virus responsible for COVID-19, killing it instantly.

Zhifeng Ren, director of the Texas Center for Superconductivity at UH, collaborated with Monzer Hourani, CEO of Medistar, a Houston-based medical real estate development firm, and other researchers to design the filter, which is described in a paper published in Materials Today Physics.

The researchers reported that virus tests at the Galveston National Laboratory found 99.8% of the novel SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was killed in a single pass through a filter made from commercially available nickel foam heated to 200 degrees Centigrade, or about 392 degrees Fahrenheit. It also killed 99.9% of the anthrax spores in testing at the national lab, which is run by the University of Texas Medical Branch.

Lee
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6430
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 10:04am
man that's a relief. At my club we've had a lot of problems passing Anthrax around between each other

Edited by cole_ely - 07/11/2020 at 10:05am
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by MrLee4ATTC MrLee4ATTC wrote:

I just saw this:

Coronavirus filter
Researchers from the University of Houston, in collaboration with others, have designed a “catch and kill” air filter that can trap the virus responsible for COVID-19, killing it instantly.

Researchers from the University of Houston, in collaboration with others, have designed a “catch and kill” air filter that can trap the virus responsible for COVID-19, killing it instantly.

Zhifeng Ren, director of the Texas Center for Superconductivity at UH, collaborated with Monzer Hourani, CEO of Medistar, a Houston-based medical real estate development firm, and other researchers to design the filter, which is described in a paper published in Materials Today Physics.

The researchers reported that virus tests at the Galveston National Laboratory found 99.8% of the novel SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was killed in a single pass through a filter made from commercially available nickel foam heated to 200 degrees Centigrade, or about 392 degrees Fahrenheit. It also killed 99.9% of the anthrax spores in testing at the national lab, which is run by the University of Texas Medical Branch.


Ha ha, I know Zhifeng well.  He is very sharp.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

man that's a relief. At my club we've had a lot of problems passing Anthrax around between each other

Here's the thing though. Those kinds of spores are REALLY hard to kill.  Spores of similar organisms  such as Aspergillus can survive the radiation in earth orbit and exist as a contaminant on the International Space Station.  It shows the capability of this device -- to people who actually know stuff.

Then again though, I'm sure the inventors had a ping pong club somewhere in Kansas in mind when they invented this so it's back to the drawing board for them.
Back to Top
BRS View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 05/08/2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1208
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 3:54pm
Florida has been setting daily case records for a while and now we are setting daily death records.  As night follows day.  
Back to Top
cole_ely View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/16/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6430
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

man that's a relief. At my club we've had a lot of problems passing Anthrax around between each other

Here's the thing though. Those kinds of spores are REALLY hard to kill.  Spores of similar organisms  such as Aspergillus can survive the radiation in earth orbit and exist as a contaminant on the International Space Station.  It shows the capability of this device -- to people who actually know stuff.

Then again though, I'm sure the inventors had a ping pong club somewhere in Kansas in mind when they invented this so it's back to the drawing board for them.

I saw that about the stuff surviving on the space station. Some kind of little animal can survive too. I forgot what it was called.  Tardigrades

I realized it was said for a purpose. Sorry im mucking up your serious thread with lighthearted commment. Probably not the time or place. I'll leave this thread to the medical professionals.

I'm sure a good filter could be very valuable


Edited by cole_ely - 07/11/2020 at 4:33pm
W1 St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.
Back to Top
mjamja View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 05/30/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2478
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/11/2020 at 4:59pm
Some good news in Tx.  Harris and Fort Bend counties (Houston) are showing a decline in daily new cases.  Montgomery county (north Houston) is however showing slight increase.

Dallas/Ft worth area counties are still showing slight increases of already high numbers.

Hopefully more places will start getting daily new case numbers to start declining.

Mark
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2020 at 1:14am
A gym that is near to our tt club just had a positive covid case confirmed; that is so weird. Our city is almost a coronvirus free zone.

Stay safe. 
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
skip3119 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 02/24/2006
Location: somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 8244
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2020 at 10:38am
Our club has not reopened for play yet.
The governor's order is that no more than 20 persons in an indoor gathering.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 13929
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2020 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Egghead Egghead wrote:

A gym that is near to our tt club just had a positive covid case confirmed; that is so weird. Our city is almost a coronvirus free zone.

Stay safe. 

Humans travel from place to place, sometimes over long distances.   The one thing that makes this virus so problematic (other than the obvious fact that it kills some people,  and completely messes up others) is that infectious people often don't have symptoms,  some will never have symptoms. That is actually quite unusual.  Flu is not like that.  Population density is a big factor.  But even smaller towns and counties could well eventually have problems if people don't take the basic precautions.   The biology behind it is very simple really.  The other thing about small towns in the US  is that their hospitals are much more easily overwhelmed and generally don't have much ICU capacity. 

So wherever you are, take care of yourself.  Like egghead ssys.


Edited by Baal - 07/12/2020 at 10:44am
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 151
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2020 at 1:16pm
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/12/2020 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Our club has not reopened for play yet.
The governor's order is that no more than 20 persons in an indoor gathering.
It is crystal clear that 2 conditions (indoor and close human contacts) help the coronvirus transmission. So, it makes sense. However, we need to have a better plan for the pre-vaccine era. Shops cannot close for years.

Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1920212223>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
About MyTableTennis.NET | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.