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Why no old-age events at US Open

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GaryBuck View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/03/2019 at 1:11pm
Looking at the prospectus of the 2019 US Open , I notice that there are no old-age events. The highest age category event is the Over 50's. That means that anyone over 55, over 60, over 65, over 70, over 75, etc. must play in the over 50's group. This is ridiculous, given the physical challenges common in old age! Asking older folks to play against people 25 years younger than themselves essentially excludes a huge number of active players from competitive events.

This is very short sighted, and rather stupid, given the importance of helping old folks stay fit and active, and the incredible benefits of table tennis for seniors. Plus, seniors tend to have the time and often the resources to attend such events. Our senior players also fulfill many other important leadership roles, including coaching, mentoring, organizing and such like. If USATT want to promote table tennis, and they say they do, then the older players are the foundation on which this future must be built.

I attended the Nationals this summer, and there was a large and active community of older folks playing.  Clearly there is a need.

What is the rationale for USATT shutting out one of their largest support groups like this?

I am disgusted.
Gary


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2019 at 2:54pm
I am with you, it doesn't make sense. At the National Senior Games this year there were 464 table tennis players, all 50+. That is 464 players who were willing to play in their local State games and qualify, then travel to Albuquerque, New Mexico to compete. Why would you not cater to this demographic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2019 at 4:23pm
My complaint about the USATT for years is that don't have anyone that understands marketing.  The Open is a great example.  Looking toward the future I can see us being eliminated from both the Nationals and Open.  The LA Open looks like a great replacement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2019 at 4:30pm
the largest club in my former home town is made up of all 55+ players and none are USATT members.  But every year they send around 20 players to the state qualifying for National Senior Games and usually send 12+ players to the National event.  By contrast the local USATT club sends 0-2 players to Open or Nationals.

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2019 at 8:09pm
Changes are a coming. The 60+
And 70+ team events will be changed to RR singles events and a 80+ will be added along with a sandpaper event and hardbat doubles event. Omnipong has been updated with the new events and the prospectus should be updated shortly.
https://www.facebook.com/SeattlePacificTableTennisClub/timeline
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 12:38am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Changes are a coming. The 60+
And 70+ team events will be changed to RR singles events and a 80+ will be added along with a sandpaper event and hardbat doubles event. Omnipong has been updated with the new events and the prospectus should be updated shortly.
Just checked the prospectus and it hasn't been updated yet (as of 9:30 pm PST) but I've confirmed that the events have been added to omnipong and players can enter the events
https://www.facebook.com/SeattlePacificTableTennisClub/timeline
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 2:25am
I've just checked the website for the US Open 2019, and the only categories are Men's Singles, Women's Singles, Men's Doubles, Women's Doubles, Mixed Doubles, Junior Boys' Singles, Junior Girls' Singles, Boys' Doubles and Girls' Double.  Absolutely NO mention of any other age categories!  It's an absolute disgrace!  The organisers have no idea whatsoever about marketing!  The winner of the Men's Singles only gets $3, 850, 000 and the runner up gets a paltry $1,900, 000.  The women are equally badly treated!  Plus they only get about 12 hours of live coverage on national television each and every day.  I'm disgusted there are no categories for older folk!  We deserve a go too!

(But then again I am looking at the tennis website, where apparently they take the notion of a National Open seriously.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 8:07am
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Changes are a coming. The 60+
And 70+ team events will be changed to RR singles events and a 80+ will be added along with a sandpaper event and hardbat doubles event. Omnipong has been updated with the new events and the prospectus should be updated shortly.
What happened... did you pull some strings? Did the organizers feel the wrath of MyTT LOL?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 8:37am
Originally posted by mjamja mjamja wrote:

the largest club in my former home town is made up of all 55+ players and none are USATT members.  But every year they send around 20 players to the state qualifying for National Senior Games and usually send 12+ players to the National event.  By contrast the local USATT club sends 0-2 players to Open or Nationals.

Mark

cause those old guys are rich and retired while the USATT club members are just tired...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryBuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Changes are a coming. The 60+
And 70+ team events will be changed to RR singles events and a 80+ will be added along with a sandpaper event and hardbat doubles event. Omnipong has been updated with the new events and the prospectus should be updated shortly.


But team events are not the answer. It means that in order to play at the Open, an older player has to put together a group of players of similar age and similar ability who all wish to go to the Open and play together as a team. I have no idea how to go about doing that, and I live in central California, which is generally regarded as a table tennis "hot spot." It would be much harder for those who live elsewhere, say, the mid-west.

The great thing about the Nationals and the Open is that individual players can go there, knowing no-one, and play against a variety of people of similar age and ability. Knowing no-one, they can immerse themselves in table tennis for a week. That's a wonderful thing, and that is what has been taken away. As a new player, I did not know many table tennis players, but I despite that, I was able to turn up at the event, knowing I would be able to meet and play similar opponents. I met lots of older folks in a similar situation.

It is very clear, from talking to others--see Mjamja's post above--and from the membership of the table tennis clubs I visit, that older players, over 50 say, comprise a huge group, and in the clubs I play in, they are the clear majority. Here's a thought experiment: picture yourself at the Nationals, look at the crowd, and then subtract the kids, their coaches, parents and other support, and you will see that the old folks constitute a huge part of the remainder: the biggest remaining demographic, or so it seems to me. Why are the needs of this group ignored.

But if Mjamja is correct, and I do not doubt him for a minute, the situation is even worse. It seems that the majority of seniors wanting to play tournaments do not even attend the national events, but prefer to travel to other events.. In other words, despite the fact that the Nationals has lots of seniors in attendance, they constitute only a small proportion of the potential number of players who could enjoy and benefit, if only the USATT would meet their needs.

By cancelling the age-related individual events, USATT is failing to meet the needs of a large majority of US recreational players. Sad, indeed!




 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vince64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by GaryBuck GaryBuck wrote:

Originally posted by Vince64 Vince64 wrote:

Changes are a coming. The 60+
And 70+ team events will be changed to RR singles events and a 80+ will be added along with a sandpaper event and hardbat doubles event. Omnipong has been updated with the new events and the prospectus should be updated shortly.


But team events are not the answer. It means that in order to play at the Open, an older player has to put together a group of players of similar age and similar ability who all wish to go to the Open and play together as a team. I have no idea how to go about doing that, and I live in central California, which is generally regarded as a table tennis "hot spot." It would be much harder for those who live elsewhere, say, the mid-west.

The great thing about the Nationals and the Open is that individual players can go there, knowing no-one, and play against a variety of people of similar age and ability. Knowing no-one, they can immerse themselves in table tennis for a week. That's a wonderful thing, and that is what has been taken away. As a new player, I did not know many table tennis players, but I despite that, I was able to turn up at the event, knowing I would be able to meet and play similar opponents. I met lots of older folks in a similar situation.

It is very clear, from talking to others--see Mjamja's post above--and from the membership of the table tennis clubs I visit, that older players, over 50 say, comprise a huge group, and in the clubs I play in, they are the clear majority. Here's a thought experiment: picture yourself at the Nationals, look at the crowd, and then subtract the kids, their coaches, parents and other support, and you will see that the old folks constitute a huge part of the remainder: the biggest remaining demographic, or so it seems to me. Why are the needs of this group ignored.

But if Mjamja is correct, and I do not doubt him for a minute, the situation is even worse. It seems that the majority of seniors wanting to play tournaments do not even attend the national events, but prefer to travel to other events.. In other words, despite the fact that the Nationals has lots of seniors in attendance, they constitute only a small proportion of the potential number of players who could enjoy and benefit, if only the USATT would meet their needs.

By cancelling the age-related individual events, USATT is failing to meet the needs of a large majority of US recreational players. Sad, indeed!




 




You misread what I posted. The over 60 and 70 team events are being changed to over 60 and 70 RR singles events and they are adding a over 80 RR singles event also.
https://www.facebook.com/SeattlePacificTableTennisClub/timeline
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryBuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 5:23pm

[/QUOTE] You misread what I posted. The over 60 and 70 team events are being changed to over 60 and 70 RR singles events and they are adding a over 80 RR singles event also.[/QUOTE]

I apologize for my misunderstanding. Thank you for the update.

Yesterday, after I posted regarding this issue on the discussion group, I also sent an email to Virginia Sung, saying essentially the same thing. This morning, I received a reply from her, telling me of the changes made. I am very happy to hear that USATT is actively listening to its members, and trying to meet their needs.

I particularly would like to thank Ms Sung for taking the trouble to reply to a member's complaint.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2019 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

I've just checked the website for the US Open 2019, and the only categories are Men's Singles, Women's Singles, Men's Doubles, Women's Doubles, Mixed Doubles, Junior Boys' Singles, Junior Girls' Singles, Boys' Doubles and Girls' Double. 


First I am 73 and play TT at least 4-5 times a week including local leagues but I have never gone to the Nationals or the OPEN and have no desire to attend. Frankly I think its odd that the USATT should have its high level national competitions include age categories other then Juniors since these National competitions are suppose to reflect the highest playing members which are not old men and women. If you are older an think you qualify then attend and play but don't expect any special age bracket considerations. I see that USATT caved on this issue but hopefully they will revisit this issue in the future and have special National Or Open play for seniors with various age brackets that will satisfy the elderly TT community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2019 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

I've just checked the website for the US Open 2019, and the only categories are Men's Singles, Women's Singles, Men's Doubles, Women's Doubles, Mixed Doubles, Junior Boys' Singles, Junior Girls' Singles, Boys' Doubles and Girls' Double. 


First I am 73 and play TT at least 4-5 times a week including local leagues but I have never gone to the Nationals or the OPEN and have no desire to attend. Frankly I think its odd that the USATT should have its high level national competitions include age categories other then Juniors since these National competitions are suppose to reflect the highest playing members which are not old men and women. If you are older an think you qualify then attend and play but don't expect any special age bracket considerations. I see that USATT caved on this issue but hopefully they will revisit this issue in the future and have special National Or Open play for seniors with various age brackets that will satisfy the elderly TT community.

You are fortunate to live where you can play as many times a week as you want.  In my local club (6 players) my toughest opponent is 600 points lower rated than me.  My next closest club (12 players) is an hour away where I am still the highest rated player in the club.  I have to drive 2 hrs each way to play a higher rated player.

The Nationals and Open are great tournaments for me because I get to play lots of matches against players I don't play regularly.

Although you don't have a need for the Open and Nationals, many players do.

The most important thing about the Nationals and Open is the money made by the USATT provides funding for most of the other programs.  

They could pull the elite players out of the tournaments and let them have their own tournament, which would lose money.  Including them in the National Championships is best for all players.  Maybe they should change the name to some other name that would include all of us.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2019 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

I've just checked the website for the US Open 2019, and the only categories are Men's Singles, Women's Singles, Men's Doubles, Women's Doubles, Mixed Doubles, Junior Boys' Singles, Junior Girls' Singles, Boys' Doubles and Girls' Double. 


First I am 73 and play TT at least 4-5 times a week including local leagues but I have never gone to the Nationals or the OPEN and have no desire to attend. Frankly I think its odd that the USATT should have its high level national competitions include age categories other then Juniors since these National competitions are suppose to reflect the highest playing members which are not old men and women. If you are older an think you qualify then attend and play but don't expect any special age bracket considerations. I see that USATT caved on this issue but hopefully they will revisit this issue in the future and have special National Or Open play for seniors with various age brackets that will satisfy the elderly TT community.
It's a very old debate (both within USATT and on this forum) as to what, exactly, is the purpose of Nationals/US Open.  There are those who emphasize only the elite events, such as Men's singles, or the Junior Events.  You could run the tournament with just those events, but you wouldn't get many players and the economics wouldn't work because the money wouldn't be there.  Instead, these tournaments are run as giant table tennis parties, which include both special events (elite or junior), plus all the other events that attract the real crowds.  That draws in much bigger crowds and, hence, the money needed to make the tournament a financial success.

It would be different if we had a large, deep-pocketed sponsor.  Get some big corporation to put up $100,000 just for the elite and junior events (or just elite), and you can run a separate tournament for them.  And then you would still need that giant table tennis party because that's what keeps the table tennis faithful happy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2019 at 2:28pm
@mts388

I understand your point of view but providing older age brackets for high level National competitions such as the Open and Nationals diminishes the value of the competition. This is is similar to what is happening with the selection process for the Olympics which is political not based on competition.
This issues you raise regarding availability of competitive players locally, small local club and the desire to play a wider selection of players are common in the United States but USATT has a limited budget and Human Resources and at some point the leadership has to define what they can do well within those boundaries as they cannot focus on developing high level players and solve the issues that you present regarding low participation levels in most parts of the U.S. without a significantly increase budget, Human Resources and a sudden large increase in the popularity of TT in the U.S.

Edited by lineup32 - 09/05/2019 at 2:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2019 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

@mts388

I understand your point of view but providing older age brackets for high level National competitions such as the Open and Nationals diminishes the value of the competition. This is is similar to what is happening with the selection process for the Olympics which is political not based on competition.
This issues you raise regarding availability of competitive players locally, small local club and the desire to play a wider selection of players are common in the United States but USATT has a limited budget and Human Resources and at some point the leadership has to define what they can do well within those boundaries as they cannot focus on developing high level players and solve the issues that you present regarding low participation levels in most parts of the U.S. without a significantly increase budget, Human Resources and a sudden large increase in the popularity of TT in the U.S.
 
I am not sure you are grasping the economics. Those extra events you are complaining about make money. Those events fund the elite events. With those events the tournament makes a profit, remove them and you have a funding shortfall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 3:36am
Lineup, I met you before and look like good people, but USATT was about to piss off 20% of the paying population that goes to the big tourneys.

What business wants to suddenly cut off 20% of their business income while the other sectors are not gunna immediately produce more income?

The old dude/gal crowd and the U2300 crowd are the vast vast majority pumping money into the event to pay for the elite amateurs... maybe the elite amateurs attract some of the U2300/old crowd, but mostly the U2300 and old crowd are paying for the big prizes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 3:39am
We all ought to take a 6 month vacation to Korea and play TT as much as possible with the clubs and go to every tourney possible - club, city, regional, national, and invitational... heck, even the chicken and beer RR or the everyone pay 10 USD 4-6 players RR winner takes all...

We would all have a different perspective on TT stuff than before on club and tourney play - amateur and pro side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 8:03am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Lineup, I met you before and look like good people, but USATT was about to piss off 20% of the paying population that goes to the big tourneys.

What business wants to suddenly cut off 20% of their business income while the other sectors are not gunna immediately produce more income?

The old dude/gal crowd and the U2300 crowd are the vast vast majority pumping money into the event to pay for the elite amateurs... maybe the elite amateurs attract some of the U2300/old crowd, but mostly the U2300 and old crowd are paying for the big prizes.


I don't have a problem with this.  In the absence of genuine sponsors, it's left to participants fund tournaments.  Fair enough.  But for heaven's sake change the name!  It's a joke to call this the US Open when tennis is running a real Open event at exactly the same time.  For the record, Australia's table tennis scene is every bit as pathetic as the USA's, but at least the Australian Open is restricted to just the very best players we can get.  At a different time, we run the Australian Veterans Championships with lots and lots of participants competing against the very best in their age groups.  But none of this U1500 rubbish.  Just the best in each age group.  And whoever wins a category knows they are the absolute best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Lineup, I met you before and look like good people, but USATT was about to piss off 20% of the paying population that goes to the big tourneys.

What business wants to suddenly cut off 20% of their business income while the other sectors are not gunna immediately produce more income?

The old dude/gal crowd and the U2300 crowd are the vast vast majority pumping money into the event to pay for the elite amateurs... maybe the elite amateurs attract some of the U2300/old crowd, but mostly the U2300 and old crowd are paying for the big prizes.


I don't have a problem with this.  In the absence of genuine sponsors, it's left to participants fund tournaments.  Fair enough.  But for heaven's sake change the name!  It's a joke to call this the US Open when tennis is running a real Open event at exactly the same time.  For the record, Australia's table tennis scene is every bit as pathetic as the USA's, but at least the Australian Open is restricted to just the very best players we can get.  At a different time, we run the Australian Veterans Championships with lots and lots of participants competing against the very best in their age groups.  But none of this U1500 rubbish.  Just the best in each age group.  And whoever wins a category knows they are the absolute best.

We have that, it's called the US Nationals.  Happens every July.  If you win an age event at Nationals you are the best US player in your category, at least for that one day.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 10:58am
USATT funding relative to their current structure is the issue which has not been solved to date by having age driven tournament brackets at the Open. USATT cannot do it all and needs to adjust its organizational activities to reflect its current funding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 11:51am
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

USATT funding relative to their current structure is the issue which has not been solved to date by having age driven tournament brackets at the Open. USATT cannot do it all and needs to adjust its organizational activities to reflect its current funding.

How do you propose to replace the loss of revenue gained from dropping the senior players from the Open?   I've probably paid around $5,000 to play in the Nationals and Open in the past, and taken out less than $50 in the cost of trophies and certificates.  Who's going to put in that money when I, and others like me no longer participate?
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

...

How do you propose to replace the loss of revenue gained from dropping the senior players from the Open?   I've probably paid around $5,000 to play in the Nationals and Open in the past, and taken out less than $50 in the cost of trophies and certificates.  Who's going to put in that money when I, and others like me no longer participate?
 

One possibility (not sure how real) - smaller tournaments are cheaper to run? Don't need to rent a hall with space for 200 tables etc. 

I get the frustration, but perhaps it helps to realize that our US Open is an outlier as far as national sport  championships are, both in size, and inclusion of everyone across age and playing level. Yes, you can qualify for golf US Open, but you better be super good, like 2700+ equivalent. No events for 30 handicap crowd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Tassie52 Tassie52 wrote:

I don't have a problem with this.  In the absence of genuine sponsors, it's left to participants fund tournaments.  Fair enough.  But for heaven's sake change the name!  It's a joke to call this the US Open when tennis is running a real Open event at exactly the same time.  For the record, Australia's table tennis scene is every bit as pathetic as the USA's, but at least the Australian Open is restricted to just the very best players we can get.  At a different time, we run the Australian Veterans Championships with lots and lots of participants competing against the very best in their age groups.  But none of this U1500 rubbish.  Just the best in each age group.  And whoever wins a category knows they are the absolute best.

I took a look and I think the ITTF did just that. The last time the US Open appeared on the ITTF calendar was in 2018. It's now been replaced by the North American Open, a Challenge Plus event.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pgpg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2019 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by acpoulos acpoulos wrote:

Originally posted by pgpg pgpg wrote:

.. Yes, you can qualify for golf US Open, but you better be super good, like 2700+ equivalent. No events for 30 handicap crowd.


Golf has a huge infrastructure. Every high school has a golf team. Various organizations promote golf starting at an age when you can barely walk. Golf leagues at work abound. There are virtually unlimited opportunities for every player to find their niche in the sport. Not so in table tennis. 2700+ to qualify for the US Open? There are currently 3 US players over 2700. Enjoy your tournament pal...

I did not realize we were pals, buddies etc. Please reread what I wrote - my point was that in order to qualify for golf US Open as a random person, you have to be equivalent of USATT 2700 in golf terms (more or less a scratch golfer, with handicap close to 0).  

And to reiterate - my prediction is that as (and if) TT grows in the US, US Open will become just like other sports - for elite athletes and rising juniors. Others like us hopefully will have plenty of local tournaments to choose from.

USATT: ~1840
Nittaku Shake Defense - Fastarc G1 - Dtecs OX
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2019 at 12:33am
Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

USATT funding relative to their current structure is the issue which has not been solved to date by having age driven tournament brackets at the Open. USATT cannot do it all and needs to adjust its organizational activities to reflect its current funding.

How do you propose to replace the loss of revenue gained from dropping the senior players from the Open?   I've probably paid around $5,000 to play in the Nationals and Open in the past, and taken out less than $50 in the cost of trophies and certificates.  Who's going to put in that money when I, and others like me no longer participate?
 




I would significantly reduce, change eliminate the current activities of USATT developing Elite players including staff, HPD, super camps, National team etc along with facilities related to those activities, as a beginning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2019 at 2:42am
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

USATT funding relative to their current structure is the issue which has not been solved to date by having age driven tournament brackets at the Open. USATT cannot do it all and needs to adjust its organizational activities to reflect its current funding.

How do you propose to replace the loss of revenue gained from dropping the senior players from the Open?   I've probably paid around $5,000 to play in the Nationals and Open in the past, and taken out less than $50 in the cost of trophies and certificates.  Who's going to put in that money when I, and others like me no longer participate?
 




I would significantly reduce, change eliminate the current activities of USATT developing Elite players including staff, HPD, super camps, National team etc along with facilities related to those activities, as a beginning.
Unfortunately, you're missing the reality of USATT here.

As an organization, USATT is primarily funded by USOC.  Under direction from USOC, their main goal is to produce Olympic athletes, and that, in turn, means focusing on elite players, super camps, and all those things you suggest dropping.  They only tolerate us ordinary players as a necessary evil.  This is why USATT has no made particular effort on promoting clubs or popularizing the sport for the general public.  The money isn't their for us -- it's for those elites.

On the other hand, as has now been pointed out by various people (including me), USOC is not going to fund the Open division of the US Open or the Nationals.  So if you want those events, then you need to include all those other events that draw in the money-paying club-playing public, such as you and me.

The system works the way it does because of the way it's financed.  You want to change that? Get us a big corporate sponsor that doesn't answer to USOC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2019 at 2:51am
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

USATT funding relative to their current structure is the issue which has not been solved to date by having age driven tournament brackets at the Open. USATT cannot do it all and needs to adjust its organizational activities to reflect its current funding.


True, largest issue is funding and operations. What to do with the little tiny funding... and a large chunk of that goes to the CEO pay/benefits and travel expenses... not a lot left to really do anything and since there wasn't much there to begin with, a mission impossible with those numbers. They are not gunna be able to cut costs a lot more, so income gotta go up.

If USATT is not gunna get any money from the govt or the USOC/OIC, then it would behoove them to hire a real marketer and pay them a percentage of gross revenues above a certain threshold... even if that is significantly more than what the CEO makes.

That would be a good start.

Anything USATT does in spending decisions isn't gunna be able to do much until the problem of income is resolved... and that is a very long running unresolved issue.

The continual influx of foreigners into concentrated population centers and establishment/growth of successful full time training centers is propping up the USA TT growth and USATT...

I bet the Bay Area alone if they wanted to band together, share resources and run the kind of training USATT wants to do and cycle it among the clubs there would be 10x more quality and productive than what USATT is doing. As it is, independently within each of their clubs they are doing bang up job...

Edited by BH-Man - 09/08/2019 at 2:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2019 at 11:50am
Originally posted by benfb benfb wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by mts388 mts388 wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

USATT funding relative to their current structure is the issue which has not been solved to date by having age driven tournament brackets at the Open. USATT cannot do it all and needs to adjust its organizational activities to reflect its current funding.

How do you propose to replace the loss of revenue gained from dropping the senior players from the Open?   I've probably paid around $5,000 to play in the Nationals and Open in the past, and taken out less than $50 in the cost of trophies and certificates.  Who's going to put in that money when I, and others like me no longer participate?
 




I would significantly reduce, change eliminate the current activities of USATT developing Elite players including staff, HPD, super camps, National team etc along with facilities related to those activities, as a beginning.

Unfortunately, you're missing the reality of USATT here.

As an organization, USATT is primarily funded by USOC.  Under direction from USOC, their main goal is to produce Olympic athletes, and that, in turn, means focusing on elite players, super camps, and all those things you suggest dropping.  They only tolerate us ordinary players as a necessary evil.  This is why USATT has no made particular effort on promoting clubs or popularizing the sport for the general public.  The money isn't their for us -- it's for those elites.

On the other hand, as has now been pointed out by various people (including me), USOC is not going to fund the Open division of the US Open or the Nationals.  So if you want those events, then you need to include all those other events that draw in the money-paying club-playing public, such as you and me.

The system works the way it does because of the way it's financed.  You want to change that? Get us a big corporate sponsor that doesn't answer to USOC.


Current system could easily be modified to be competition driven with USATT sponsoring competitions every two to four years for slots on Olympic and international team competitions. Its clear that local clubs are capable of creating so called elite players without any help from USATT. The basic building block for increasing TT player population is via local club development. The system needs to reflect a ground up point of view vs a top down structure.
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