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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2024 at 4:17pm
The Iranian player who Tiago Apolonia played against was horrendous to watch.  The constant delay of game by tightening the f**king shoes after every f**king point, and the running around in circles and shit.  Surprised to see the umpire was so merciful in those situations by not giving him a yellow card.  Good thing Tiago won, can't stand that guy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liulin04 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2024 at 4:18pm
I was rooting for Miu Hirano's Iranian opponent.  She almost made Hirano wet her shorts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/17/2024 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by hleett hleett wrote:

Thanks. ESPN works for me. But where did you find this info?

I searched for “table tennis” or “Busan” on ESPN to find the feeds

As to finding the info, I saw someone here mentioning ESPN3 so just googled how to watch it 


Edited by mmxx - 02/17/2024 at 7:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2024 at 1:59am
In years past, we've talked about the players listed in the Men's Leading Players and Women's Leading Players boxes, aka the most overworked players. On the men's side, Darko Jorgic leads. 4th on the list is Vitor Ishiy, who has lost more games than he has won (6 won, 10 lost). On the women's side, the leader is Mario Xiao of Spain. 2 of the top 5 women's players have lost more games than they have won.


Edited by dewnyc - 02/18/2024 at 2:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2024 at 2:22am
Great win by USA over England, with Nikhil Kumar beating Paul Drinkhall 11-9 in the 5th.
Nikhil also beat Pitchford earlier, who is probably injured.
Jishan Liang also beat Drinkhall, like at WTT Feeder Westchester.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2024 at 2:23am
USA beats England with Nikhil Kumar being the hero beating both Pitchford and Drinkhall and Jishan repeating his victory over Drinkhall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2024 at 2:24am
Originally posted by dewnyc dewnyc wrote:

Great win by USA over England, with Nikhil Kumar beating Paul Drinkhall 11-9 in the 5th.
Nikhil also beat Pitchford earlier, who is probably injured.
Jishan Liang also beat Drinkhall, like at WTT Feeder Westchester.
haha simultaneously posting similar things.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/18/2024 at 9:52am
South Afrika taking 15 pts in 9 games....This is not serious...They should have kept max 32 teams (even 24 ) for these WTTC and the others playing a "league B championships....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2024 at 10:37pm
USA vs Kazakhstan match will be on Espn3 at 6am Eastern time tomorrow 

Can watch from ESPN.com or espn app (search “Busan”, table 2 feed)


Edited by mmxx - 02/19/2024 at 10:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/19/2024 at 10:40pm
USA will advance with a win over Kazakhstan, basically by winning all the matches not involving Kirill Gerassimenko (who is undefeated so far, including against Germany). That’s what England & Germany did. Assuming England beats Saudi Arabia, I think USA needs to win at least 2 points against KAZ to have a chance in the 3-way tie.

Edited by dewnyc - 02/20/2024 at 7:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 8:29am
Nikhil had a 2-1 lead on KG, with USA leading 2-1.
Oh boy, controversy with jishan’s racket.


Edited by dewnyc - 02/20/2024 at 8:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 9:06am
Jishan was disqualified. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttvet86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 9:24am
What for? For Racket control not doing their job?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 9:31am
His racket failed post-match testing, probably for boosting but I’m not sure.
That gave KAZ a 3-1 win and 2nd place in the group.
USA and England were tied on team points won, and England edged USA on games won to finish 3rd. Head-to-head isn’t counted here, and I believe not the ratio of games won to lost as well. I saw something similar in the 3-way tie in women’s involving Malaysia, Italy, and Puerto Rico - great late comeback by MAS against ITA to put them through.


Edited by dewnyc - 02/20/2024 at 9:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by dewnyc dewnyc wrote:

His racket failed post-match testing, probably for boosting but I’m not sure.
That gave KAZ a 3-1 win and 2nd place in the group.
USA and England were tied on team points won, and England edged USA on games won to finish 3rd. Head-to-head isn’t counted here, and I believe not the ratio of games won to lost as well. I saw something similar in the 3-way tie in women’s involving Malaysia, Italy, and Puerto Rico - great late comeback by MAS against ITA to put them through.
The 3‐1 score did the US in and helped Kazakhstan,  not sure why Adam was trying to make it a mystery, Kazakhstan coming in second meant USA was 4th once the disqualification was final. If it was 3-2 even as a US loss, I think it would have gone to individual match scores as all teams won and lost 3-2.


Edited by NextLevel - 02/20/2024 at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 12:29pm
The US were already through with 2 matches won against KAZ, the only way they lose out from where they were is the scenario that played out. Even if it was 2-2 and Sid lost the last match, US still would have advanced in 3rd, if they won they would advance 2nd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 1:37pm
Don't they inspect the rackets before the match?

It passed pre-match inspection but failed post-match ?

Edited by aerial - 02/20/2024 at 1:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by aerial aerial wrote:

Don't they inspect the rackets before the match?

It passed pre-match inspection but failed post-match ?


According to a poster on another forum, you don't have to submit it for a pre-match inspection, for instance if you want to practice with that racket right before a match. But that means you are stuck with a post-match inspection, and any consequences, with no way to correct the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 2:37pm
Jishan robbed the team their opportunity to advance. He should be removed from Team USA. Nikhil worked so hard just for this to happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aerial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 3:04pm
rough comment against Jishan--he also contributed to team USA's win vs ENG which would also be a reason for them to be in the running to advance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 3:56pm
Damn...this is so frustrating for US table tennis. I thought for sure US was going to advance after they beat England, and now this happens. Everyone knows the rules and you should definitely not be boosting your rubber during a large event like this. What a shame for the US team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kagin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 4:58pm
I'm not there and can't speak to these specific events, but here's the standard procedure:

50 minutes before match time, players and captains of both teams report to the call area. Officials check the players' rackets and uniforms. They also do the coin toss for ABC/XYZ. Captains will declare their lineups and players will select balls.

Normally it is the match umpires who check the rackets, but in some occasions it is done by a specific racket testing group. Assuming all rackets are okay, from this point on the rackets are under the umpires' control. If any racket is not okay, the player can submit a different racket and have it tested.

Players are not required to have rackets checked before the match, but this makes them subject to post-match testing, which is obviously much worse/riskier.

After rackets are checked, if a player wants to practice, they usually use a different racket. In theory they can use their match racket, but this takes it out of umpire control and thus makes it subject to post-match testing.

One thing that many players don't realize is that there is a psychological difference between pre-match and post-match testing. In a pre-match test, if your rubber has a borderline flaw, you're more likely to get away with it. You might be able to convince the racket tester to let it go, or check it again, or ask for a second opinion. In a post-match test where you've already won the match, it is far less likely for this kind of negotiation to work. It's also less likely for your opponent to sympathize with you and your borderline racket because the entire match hinges on whether the racket is disqualified or not. None of this is in the rules, and i don't like it and don't endorse it, but it's the reality when humans are making decisions.

Also, in a pre-match test, it is very often the umpires who are testing the rackets. It is quite possible that the umpires declared Jishan's racket okay; however after the racket left the umpires' control, the umpires who tested his racket continued to work the team contest (umpiring Kirill vs Nikhil), while Jishan's racket was tested by a different official. Perhaps that official detected something that the match umpires didn't see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 6:22pm
Does anyone know of previous such precedence where an ITTF major tournament like this reverted a match outcome solely on a racket failing test? 

I mean either recent years or years ago, major match outcome reversal that had significant impact on a team

If this has happened before, which team did it happen to and roughly what year? 


Edited by mmxx - 02/20/2024 at 6:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by mmxx mmxx wrote:

Does anyone know of previous such precedence where an ITTF major tournament like this reverted a match outcome solely on a racket failing test? 

I mean either recent years or many years ago, major match outcome reversal that had significant impact on a team

If this has happened before, to which team and roughly what year? 

Kim Taek Soo vs Wang Tao, 1995 Worlds, MS Quarterfinal
Mentioned recently at http://blog.kaginism.com/2024/02/youre-tearing-me-apart.html (mentioned in another post here)


Edited by dewnyc - 02/20/2024 at 6:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by dewnyc dewnyc wrote:

Originally posted by mmxx mmxx wrote:

Does anyone know of previous such precedence where an ITTF major tournament like this reverted a match outcome solely on a racket failing test? 

I mean either recent years or many years ago, major match outcome reversal that had significant impact on a team

If this has happened before, to which team and roughly what year? 

Kim Taek Soo vs Wang Tao, 1995 Worlds, MS Quarterfinal
Mentioned recently at http://blog.kaginism.com/

Thanks, which player got disqualified in that case, Kim or Wang? 

(Can’t find details on that blog home page)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dewnyc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by mmxx mmxx wrote:

Originally posted by dewnyc dewnyc wrote:

Originally posted by mmxx mmxx wrote:

Does anyone know of previous such precedence where an ITTF major tournament like this reverted a match outcome solely on a racket failing test? 

I mean either recent years or many years ago, major match outcome reversal that had significant impact on a team

If this has happened before, to which team and roughly what year? 

Kim Taek Soo vs Wang Tao, 1995 Worlds, MS Quarterfinal
Mentioned recently at http://blog.kaginism.com/

Thanks, which player got disqualified in that case, Kim or Wang? 

(Can’t find details on that blog home page)

I updated the link.
Anyways, Kim was disqualified after initially winning the match. It had to do with speed glue.
FWIW, it led to China sweeping the podium. Wang dumped to Liu Guoliang in the SF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 7:50pm
I think ittf always offer voluntary testing for rackets. When I played WTTC on all 3 occasions I did the voluntary testing at the start of the tournament, it’s a smart thing to do. There are no consequences if you fail but at least you have a chance to rectify any issues. 

It’s worth noting that in the 2022 WTTC Jishan’s main and spare rackets both failed and he had to use another player’s racket for his match. 

There are certain responsibilities athletes need to take to ensure their rackets comply with the rules - especially when they have a previous experience with racket failure.

I know there are other circumstances around submitting his racket late, but it’s important for a player to know all of the rules surrounding these things to avoid issues like this happening.

That being said perhaps a future rule change is needed to ensure that all rackets must be approved pre-match on every occasion and there are no circumstances in which a match can be played with a racket which hasn’t been 100% approved by the necessary officials beforehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 8:29pm
Originally posted by dewnyc dewnyc wrote:

Originally posted by mmxx mmxx wrote:

Originally posted by dewnyc dewnyc wrote:

Originally posted by mmxx mmxx wrote:

Does anyone know of previous such precedence where an ITTF major tournament like this reverted a match outcome solely on a racket failing test? 

I mean either recent years or many years ago, major match outcome reversal that had significant impact on a team

If this has happened before, to which team and roughly what year? 

Kim Taek Soo vs Wang Tao, 1995 Worlds, MS Quarterfinal
Mentioned recently at http://blog.kaginism.com/

Thanks, which player got disqualified in that case, Kim or Wang? 

(Can’t find details on that blog home page)

I updated the link.
Anyways, Kim was disqualified after initially winning the match. It had to do with speed glue.
FWIW, it led to China sweeping the podium. Wang dumped to Liu Guoliang in the SF.

Dont know but Liu beat wang tao in almost all matches they played

Kim said that ittf should have not allowed to play since he was tested after the match but he admited he was mixing 2 diffrent glues in team matches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 9:35pm
If this happened in 2022 to Jishan then he didn’t learn from his previous mistake. What I don’t understand either is when did he boost it? There are plenty of boosters people use that last for weeks or longer so if they use those types of boosters days or weeks before an event, it’s my understanding they should be able to pass the test. Is that still the case? I was told if you boost within 24 hours it can still be detected. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2024 at 9:40pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

If this happened in 2022 to Jishan then he didn’t learn from his previous mistake. What I don’t understand either is when did he boost it? There are plenty of boosters people use that last for weeks or longer so if they use those types of boosters days or weeks before an event, it’s my understanding they should be able to pass the test. Is that still the case? I was told if you boost within 24 hours it can still be detected. 


I have no firsthand knowledge, but several people are saying the rubber was over thickness. Modern boosters don't have any VOC, so that is rarely the issue.
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