WTTC Finals 2022, Chengdu, 9/30-10/9

ZApenholder wrote: ZApenholder wrote: Came across this https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_WTTC_Finals_2022_FAQv2.pdf Getting to Chengdu was not easy - maybe players pulled out due to the STRICT 10 day health monitoring policy prior to departure? and wow, the quarantine after the event to stay in China and then travel to Macau... Reading all those Q&As,,,,why didn't they just move all 3 tournaments to some place with less stress. CT level of 40 is also way too high, so it must be tough for all invovled A friend got tested positive on Monday 7 negative daily tests prior, then POSITIVE on Monday, isolated in room, and 2 tests daily, all NEGATIVE (5 of them so far) but the friend still need to finish the 7 day post POS test isolation..... While the room mate got NEG test, is free to walk around. Sounds like a false positive... CT40 is way too high of a benchmark to use...

that is what I was saying, for a lot of the players is it  worth it  to put up with those rules?

WHO CARES changdu back yard games? Zeio alone keeps follow on. Nice job, Zeio.
Paris Olympics adopted the reduced team format 1 man + 1 woman. Nice novelty indeed.
Incipid ChANGDU competitions do not worth a candel to uluminate the court.
------
GOOD LUCK, PARIS.

igorponger wrote: Paris Olympics adopted the reduced team format 1 man + 1 woman. Nice novelty indeed. Incipid ChANGDU competitions do not worth a candel to uluminate the court. ------ GOOD LUCK, PARIS.

zeio wrote: ZApenholder wrote: jackwong23 wrote: Yeah, blame the ABC toss, injuries, luck. Never give any credit to the opponent. Typical sour loser  have you ever played in any teams competition? ... But I guess you only here for arguments Here is team match crash course 101 for amberheard23, who not only lies but also is absolutely clueless(pledge vs donate, ABC vs XYZ). Even the IOC has a written article on the advantage of ABC team. https://news.tvbs.com.tw/life/1556702 https://youtu.be/pCaGzndhQrA?t=21

ZApenholder wrote: zeio wrote: Would be nice if you can help me comprehend 3.7.7.3 from ITTF Handbook 2022. 3.7.7.3 Before a team match the right to choose A, B, C or X, Y, Z shall be decided by lot and the captains shall name their teams to the referee or his or her representative, assigning a letter to each singles player. This is exactly what I said, only extra I added was at WTTTC 2022, you require to do it before 1h45 before the start of the match, else you faulted your right to toss and name your team. So let me explain 3.7.7.3 to you at your argument here: zeio wrote: The ABC team always has an inherent advantage as the 1st singles playing in match 1 and match 4 gives them more flexibility in switching the 2nd and 3rd singles. They could avoid SWY from taking 2 points from HY and SXN, or ZCZ from taking 2 points from Mittelham and SXN. So if you read 3.7.7.3 and what I said (which is exactly the same), this means, you can't play match 1 and then have the decision of using your flexibility in switching the 2nd and 3rd singles. The submission at toss of team roster and ABC or XYC position is final! 45 mins prior, your racket need to be submitted too.

Do you seriously think that was my argument? That I was clueless about the rules?

Read about my comments on Rosskopf's lineups against Japan and South Korea at Rio 2016.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76171&PID=946070&title=2016-rio-olympic-games-aug-06-aug-17#946070

Ya, Germany was strategically defeated the moment they turned in that roster.

Edited by zeio - 10/06/2022 at 11:16am

Read the following again.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76171&PID=946070&title=2016-rio-olympic-games-aug-06-aug-17#946070

zeio wrote: Ya, Germany was strategically defeated the moment they turned in that roster.

It's true the ABC team has more flexibility in switching 2nd and 3rd singles. How did you interpret that "flexibility" as changing mid-game?

The post below was posted by me in 2018.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?17054-Breaking-News!-New-Team-Format-for-Tokyo-2020&p=220694&viewfull=1#post220694

The most interesting part of the new format is the 1st singles match. Due to the fixed pairing of doubles in the new format, the 1st singles spot is now fixed for both teams, meaning the strongest player of each team is pitted against each other, 100% guaranteed. As the doubles is played first now, the case where a player plays in 2 consecutive matches is eliminated. The strategic value now rests on where teams place their 2nd and 3rd players. Either way, the ABC team will still enjoy a slight edge, as their 1st singles player will play again in the 4th match. Under the old system, teams had some leeway to what spot(A/B, X/Y) they could assign their strongest players, depending on the coin toss. A team may want to avoid a certain player, often the 1st singles player of the opposing team, in order to focus on taking out the 2nd singles player and winning the doubles for a chance to win. Japan did exactly that in the team final at Rio Olympics, as revealed by Kurashima. Mizutani said the singles bronze medal gave him a confidence boost, and he came into the SF match knowing he could beat Boll despite the lopsided record. As confident as Kurashima was in Mizutani beating Boll, they still needed the doubles. That's also where Rosskopf made the mistake by focusing on the singles and forgoing the doubles. For the record, Germany lost in all doubles matches in the team event from R16 to SF. Bloody hell, Rosskopf was a doubles specialist! The only win they scored in the bronze medal match against South Korea was with the lineup as I suggested(which Rosskopf never used till then).

Guys, let's relax a bit here.  I am not sure where this is going since the 5 singles matches format is not the same animal as the doubles match and 4 singles format, which has evolved from having the doubles match in 3rd place to having the doubles match in first place.

The idea behind both is the same. ABC team always enjoys a slight edge. The new Olympic format is closer to the WTTC format. Replace the doubles with singles and move it to the third match. Boom.

At WTTC 2016, Fukuhara talked about how the CNT's lineup in the final surprised them(they thought DN(3rd singles) was going to play first), but it didn't matter in the end since their players were Olympic Champions and World Champions.

http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2016-03-06/doc-ifxqaffy3667342.shtml

对于中国队这样的排兵布阵，福原爱透露完全是在意料之外：“我们都以为丁宁会打前面，其实今天这个排阵谁也没有猜对，赛前准备的人都没有对上，有点吓一跳！”

Edited by zeio - 10/06/2022 at 11:57am

Mittelham is the weakest of the 3 German players and Minnie could not beat her in the 5th match. 

Edited by jackwong23 - 10/06/2022 at 12:25pm

Edited by ZApenholder - 10/06/2022 at 12:45pm

amateur wrote: I was wondering too what doubles were doing in this discussion. zeio needs to step out and get some fresh air.

Because the Olympics is the only major the mainstream media care enough to make a picture and video showing the advantage of ABC team. There are so many Chinese articles about the edge of ABC team for WTTC(see below) but how many of you care enough to read(let alone "can read") Chinese here?

https://sports.sina.cn/sa/2004-03-07/detail-ikftpnnz1087413.d.html

按照规则，团体赛开赛之前，参赛两队先要抽签。抽中主队的，1号主力打一、四盘，2号主力打二、五盘；客队的1号主力打二、四盘，2号主力打一、五盘；双方的3号选手仅在第三盘中较量。乒乓球由于球路相克等特定因素，排兵布阵则成为极重的胜负手，其重要性往往会超过实力的大小。 小组赛打韩国队时，抽中客队的刘国梁大胆地以小将王皓出任1号主力，王励勤随后，而将现世界排名第一的马琳放在了3号位置上。这一布阵大出韩国队主帅刘南奎的意料，尽管刘南奎也精心地作了阵容调整，以柳承敏担当1号，而将此前一直出任3号的朱世赫调至2号，将吴尚垠“降格”为3号，但韩国队的心思还是落入了刘国梁的算计之中。结果，由于摸准了对手的路数，中国队以3比0轻松胜出。复赛时，抽中客队的德国人为使其绝对主力波尔避开马琳，有意让波尔降为2号，但仿佛看透了对手心思的刘国梁再布奇阵，让马琳担纲第一单打，波尔无奈地在首盘就遭遇了自己的“克星”，马琳不负众望地力克波尔，为中国队抢下至关重要的第一分。随后王皓和王励勤接连报捷，打得德国队没有还手之力。虽然刘国梁赛后矢�£否认在这两场比赛前进行过周密的战略部署，坚称是中国队球员已进入最佳状态所致，可圈内人�£�都知道，刘国梁为此几乎用了整整两个晚上的时间来思考，因此使中国队赢得了两场漂亮的胜利。

https://sports.sohu.com/2004/02/27/45/news219224587.shtml

第二，自1991年千叶世乒赛团体改制后，由原来的9盘5胜变为5盘3胜，从抢5分到抢3分，极大地增加了比赛的偶然性，对整体实力占优势的中国男队稍显不利。同时，偶然性的增大使第一主力、第二主力（出场两次）的负担陡然加重，两人中不能有一个人发挥失常连丢两分，而且此时另一人已绝对不容有失。大阪世乒赛中韩半决赛第一主力孔令辉两分皆失，第二主力刘国�£不得已拼尽全力又借助运气方涉险过关；2000年45届世乒赛男团决赛，刘国梁也是丢了两分，而孔令辉受其影响，未能拿回两分，导致失利。自改制以来，中国男团每次决赛均战战兢兢，谨小慎微，实在是5盘3胜的赛制大意不得。以前打9盘时，虽然第一主力（主队2、4、7，客队3、5、7）重任在肩，但只要队友互相支持，第一主力即使失去一分也不要紧。像庄则栋、许绍发、郭跃华、江嘉良这样的第一主力，都有过甫一上场即丢分的经历，但最终并无大碍。而现在第一主力上阵对对方的第二主力如果失分，就有可能造成阵脚大乱、军心浮躁的状况。一寸短，一寸险，抢3分为弱队制造了充分的爆冷机会，要是有一人打疯了拿两分，另两人“好�£�凭借力”只要斩获一分，就有可能以弱胜强。另外，5盘3胜提高了排兵布阵的难度，如果考虑不周或�£�云突变，第二主力可能只打一盘球队便以1：3告负，行话这叫“憋死了”，像1993年世乒赛男团决赛的马文革、2002年亚运会女团决赛的张怡宁，就是这样的典型。

Edited by zeio - 10/06/2022 at 1:22pm

zeio wrote: NextLevel wrote: Guys, let's relax a bit here.  I am not sure where this is going since the 5 singles matches format is not the same animal as the doubles match and 4 singles format, which has evolved from having the doubles match in 3rd place to having the doubles match in first place. I can't believe you folks would argue with me on this. One last time.

ZApenholder wrote: dewnyc wrote: ZApenholder wrote: igorponger wrote: Paris Olympics adopted the reduced team format 1 man + 1 woman. Nice novelty indeed. Incipid ChANGDU competitions do not worth a candel to uluminate the court. ------ GOOD LUCK, PARIS. Did you get me your source of the service toss height increase to 20 something cm yet? so tell me about the mix team match up. I'm always eager to learn!! They having mens and womens singles, mens and womens teams and mixed doubles (same as Tokyo) and you saying there is now an extra mixed team match up? Tell me more!!! You need to ask Paris OG to update they own website to include that new team format too. I haven't found anything about a mixed team event in Paris 2024 either but the Youth Olympic Games does have that. Igor is known for a lot of fake news. He has 2 years to show us proof of his claim,