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Zennihon Takkyu 2023/All-Japan TTC 2023, 1/23-29

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2023 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Doesn't change any part of the argument - you can only beat the people in front of you.

So how come many refused to consider ZJK the then GOAT for that reason even after World Cup 2014?

How many times have ML and ZJK met in the 3 majors and the results?
2 and 1W1L.

Thank about it.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79816&PID=989928&title=is-waldner-the-greatest-table-tennis-player-ever#989928
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79285&PID=982629&title=ma-long-the-goat#982629

There are people who considered Ma Long the greatest player they had ever seen as far back as 2010/2011. One of them (Don Parker) commrntated on ITTF TV very often and was the former coach of England.  Does his opinion count too?

It is okay to cite all these opinions.  But they are just that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2023 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Yeah it's weird. Instead of congratulating Togami and hoping it spurs him onto greater heights in international play, he gets a bunch of complaints about him.  


It isn't unusual either to have players who do better against specific players or under specific circumstances.  Praising or criticizing those players isn't unusual - using such praise or criticism as some kind of factual commentary on the quality of their play especially at the ages of Togami and Hayata is interesting.

Just like it's not about my or your opinion, my posting those comments also is not about disguising as factual commentary, it's a reflection of the reality - how people feel about the status of certain players.

It's just like how LGL and Ma Te have defended Harimoto's screaming, yet a big chunk of people still couldn't care less about how real coaches and players feel but their own.

Do you quote or posts here and use them to reflect perception of Hayata and Ito for fans in the West?  Just curious. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2023 at 7:57pm
Harimoto played extremely weird during the final. His aggressive chiquita receive was nowhere to be seen, just doing FH short and long pushes for the most part which are way below his BH receive level (as compared to say his match against Wang Chuqin and Lin Gaoyuan where he was attacking every single serve). He was also not varying his serve much, choosing just to serve to the FH short which allowed Togami to do whatever he wanted. 

And even when Togami gave him slightly looser balls he was attempting BH spinny opening loops which is not exactly his forte (one of Harimoto's most dangerous shots is his off the bounce BH against underspin taken very early). His slow BH opening loops were all just cannon fodder for Togami, as he's just not that good at it compared to say Lin Yun Ju who generates extreme amounts of spin on that shot. 

I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills


Edited by blahness - 01/29/2023 at 7:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2023 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto played extremely weird during the final. His aggressive chiquita receive was nowhere to be seen, just doing FH short and long pushes for the most part which are way below his BH receive level (as compared to say his match against Wang Chuqin and Lin Gaoyuan where he was attacking every single serve). He was also not varying his serve much, choosing just to serve to the FH short which allowed Togami to do whatever he wanted. 

And even when Togami gave him slightly looser balls he was attempting BH spinny opening loops which is not exactly his forte (one of Harimoto's most dangerous shots is his off the bounce BH against underspin taken very early). His slow BH opening loops were all just cannon fodder for Togami, as he's just not that good at it compared to say Lin Yun Ju who generates extreme amounts of spin on that shot. 

I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills

THarimoto cites Togami as the first name whenever asked about rivals. I think there is something going on there that deserves a bit more scrutiny. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2023 at 8:05pm
Hina Hayata - very well deserved victory indeed, so much improvement over the last 2 years or so! 

I think her game is much better than Ishikawa, the power and spin levels are way beyond what Ishikawa could ever produce imo... Hayata also takes very good advantage of the lefty angles by using sidespin wisely (kinda like how Ding Ning used to play)

The CNT women are dominating but they have a weakness in terms of top level lefty players since Ding Ning left the team... Now the top 5-6 players are pretty much all righty players, they might be not accustomed to high level lefty women players (imo the best CNT lefty is Qian Tianyi? but it seems she's much weaker than Hayata)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2023 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Harimoto played extremely weird during the final. His aggressive chiquita receive was nowhere to be seen, just doing FH short and long pushes for the most part which are way below his BH receive level (as compared to say his match against Wang Chuqin and Lin Gaoyuan where he was attacking every single serve). He was also not varying his serve much, choosing just to serve to the FH short which allowed Togami to do whatever he wanted. 

And even when Togami gave him slightly looser balls he was attempting BH spinny opening loops which is not exactly his forte (one of Harimoto's most dangerous shots is his off the bounce BH against underspin taken very early). His slow BH opening loops were all just cannon fodder for Togami, as he's just not that good at it compared to say Lin Yun Ju who generates extreme amounts of spin on that shot. 

I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills

THarimoto cites Togami as the first name whenever asked about rivals. I think there is something going on there that deserves a bit more scrutiny. 
The rest of the Japanese men's team are quite weak at the moment compared to Harimoto, so the term rival may not be all that meaningful anyway. Harimoto has wins over all the current top level CNT players which is testament to his quality and level of play which is something Togami is unlikely to ever have...


Edited by blahness - 01/29/2023 at 8:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 1:22am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Do you quote or posts here and use them to reflect perception of Hayata and Ito for fans in the West?  Just curious.

I don't post on Chinese forums now since the majority of people have moved on to social media and video platform, which are difficult to follow and it's not serious discussion but about who's No. 1, who's trying to sabotage who, day in day out (see where I'm coming from?). Hupu is pretty much dead now. Tieba is on its way. The most active Douban groups are invite-only. But before that, I did quote posts here.

Check out my posts on hkttf.com back in 2014 where I quoted and translated Schlager's comments on about.com and Henzell's comments on Mytt. I remember rubbing some members the wrong way. The forum owner, whose son competed internationally and played Harimoto, even started a separate thread to preserve the quotes.

https://hkttf.com/viewthread.php?tid=69014&extra=&page=2
https://hkttf.com/viewthread.php?tid=69121
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 1:40am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

There are people who considered Ma Long the greatest player they had ever seen as far back as 2010/2011. One of them (Don Parker) commrntated on ITTF TV very often and was the former coach of England.  Does his opinion count too?

It is okay to cite all these opinions.  But they are just that.

If you checked out the links, I did quote Don Parker as an example.

Those comments, especially when expressed by KOLs/influencers on live broadcast/live stream, carry way more influence on the perception of certain players by the general public, especially those who don't really play and watch just for fun.

Edited by zeio - 01/30/2023 at 1:42am
Viscaria FL - 91g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zwill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 8:48am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Hina Hayata - very well deserved victory indeed, so much improvement over the last 2 years or so! 

I think her game is much better than Ishikawa, the power and spin levels are way beyond what Ishikawa could ever produce imo... Hayata also takes very good advantage of the lefty angles by using sidespin wisely (kinda like how Ding Ning used to play)

The CNT women are dominating but they have a weakness in terms of top level lefty players since Ding Ning left the team... Now the top 5-6 players are pretty much all righty players, they might be not accustomed to high level lefty women players (imo the best CNT lefty is Qian Tianyi? but it seems she's much weaker than Hayata)

Kuai Man is their best lefty and she will improve even more. I look forward to seeing her, she's such a cutie too ☺️
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 9:43am
Originally posted by Zwill Zwill wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Hina Hayata - very well deserved victory indeed, so much improvement over the last 2 years or so! 

I think her game is much better than Ishikawa, the power and spin levels are way beyond what Ishikawa could ever produce imo... Hayata also takes very good advantage of the lefty angles by using sidespin wisely (kinda like how Ding Ning used to play)

The CNT women are dominating but they have a weakness in terms of top level lefty players since Ding Ning left the team... Now the top 5-6 players are pretty much all righty players, they might be not accustomed to high level lefty women players (imo the best CNT lefty is Qian Tianyi? but it seems she's much weaker than Hayata)

Kuai Man is their best lefty and she will improve even more. I look forward to seeing her, she's such a cutie too ☺️
Kuai Man is good, but not better than Qian Tianyi at the moment.  She keeps getting tripped up by her seniors in the recent Feeder/Contender tournaments.  However, it does look like China is pushing her into the top 30 of the world rankings as she's signed up for Feeder Amman and Contender Amman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 10:11am
Why did Miyuu Kihara get a yellow card here?  Seems pretty ridiculous and disrupted her flow as she was doing pretty well:

https://tttv.jp/video/5717 Jump to about 41:11 (or -27:04 on the countdown timer)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 3:37pm
"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/30/2023 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  

It seems like it... compare HT against Wang Chuqin/Lin Gaoyuan and against Togami. It seems like he was working on something... He gave Togami all the time in the world to counterloop...

HT doesn't do late timing BH spinny loop in general, that's more of a Timo Boll or Lin Yun Ju shot.

HT was also pretty much blocking all match long as if he's lazy to attack lol...

My guess is that he's working on his passive game and push control...but you can't win with such slow shotmaking at the highest level unless you have insane spin (which he doesn't have). I just watched his semifinal and it's the same terrible playstyle, he was just lucky to not have met an opponent high quality enough to punish him for his suboptimal playstyle.


Edited by blahness - 01/30/2023 at 5:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Tempest/Comet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 1:34am

“Im not a prodigy. Truthfully, whether it’s in technical, mental, physical and recovery, I’m the type that without striving with great effort, I won’t succeed. It is because, from the beginning, of the usual support, including my parents, Coach Daisuki and everyone of Team Hina that I can stand here. I feel very good to be able to repay their kindness this way. “




Edited by Tempest/Comet - 01/31/2023 at 1:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 8:05am
Originally posted by Tempest/Comet Tempest/Comet wrote:

“Im not a prodigy. Truthfully, whether it’s in technical, mental, physical and recovery, I’m the type that without striving with great effort, I won’t succeed. It is because, from the beginning, of the usual support, including my parents, Coach Daisuki and everyone of Team Hina that I can stand here. I feel very good to be able to repay their kindness this way. “

Great quote Tempest/Comet.  Just goes to show you don't need to be a prodigy to excel.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 9:15am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  

It seems like it... compare HT against Wang Chuqin/Lin Gaoyuan and against Togami. It seems like he was working on something... He gave Togami all the time in the world to counterloop...

HT doesn't do late timing BH spinny loop in general, that's more of a Timo Boll or Lin Yun Ju shot.

HT was also pretty much blocking all match long as if he's lazy to attack lol...

My guess is that he's working on his passive game and push control...but you can't win with such slow shotmaking at the highest level unless you have insane spin (which he doesn't have). I just watched his semifinal and it's the same terrible playstyle, he was just lucky to not have met an opponent high quality enough to punish him for his suboptimal playstyle.
They are former teammates so Togami knows Harimoto very well.  He put Harimoto's BH under time pressure either by driving it hard or by placing the ball such that Harimoto has to move to the ball.  Thus, Harimoto was often forced into passive blocking on the BH.  There's no way you use the prestigious All Japan as your training ground for your passive control game.  You can do that in team practices or League matches, but the All Japan is not the time or place for it.  I credit Togami for his controlled aggression in his matches with both Shinozuka and Harimoto.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 9:27am
Harimoto was only one step away from achieving the first triple crown for men in 40 years...
Viscaria FL - 91g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 9:28am
“Im not a prodigy. Truthfully, whether it’s in technical, mental, physical and recovery, I’m the type that without striving with great effort, I won’t succeed. It is because, from the beginning, of the usual support, including my parents, Coach Daisuki and everyone of Team Hina that I can stand here. I feel very good to be able to repay their kindness this way. “
I love people who succeed from hard work only (although she probably downplayed her natural abilities).  If true could explain her style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 12:28pm
Unlike Hirano and Ito (as well as Ishikawa, Kihara, Harimoto and many more table tennis families in Japan), Hayata's family has no table tennis history. She started playing table tennis because of her sister. IIRC, her mom had to drive her to the club a long distance for every training session.

I think Nagasaki's family has no table tennis history as well.

Edited by zeio - 01/31/2023 at 12:30pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  

It seems like it... compare HT against Wang Chuqin/Lin Gaoyuan and against Togami. It seems like he was working on something... He gave Togami all the time in the world to counterloop...

HT doesn't do late timing BH spinny loop in general, that's more of a Timo Boll or Lin Yun Ju shot.

HT was also pretty much blocking all match long as if he's lazy to attack lol...

My guess is that he's working on his passive game and push control...but you can't win with such slow shotmaking at the highest level unless you have insane spin (which he doesn't have). I just watched his semifinal and it's the same terrible playstyle, he was just lucky to not have met an opponent high quality enough to punish him for his suboptimal playstyle.
They are former teammates so Togami knows Harimoto very well.  He put Harimoto's BH under time pressure either by driving it hard or by placing the ball such that Harimoto has to move to the ball.  Thus, Harimoto was often forced into passive blocking on the BH.  There's no way you use the prestigious All Japan as your training ground for your passive control game.  You can do that in team practices or League matches, but the All Japan is not the time or place for it.  I credit Togami for his controlled aggression in his matches with both Shinozuka and Harimoto.

I suspect that is indeed what Harimoto is doing, maybe he only wants the big tournaments and beat the CNT players. For eg against Lin Gaoyuan or Wang Chuqin he varied his serve so much more, the BH opening loops are taken a lot earlier and with a lot more sting and varied placement, and he doesn't miss chances to aggressively BH punch counter or FH counterloop during rallies, none of the relaxed blocking nonsense he showed here. 

Togami is a good player but not yet at the quality of Harimoto's A game imo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Catenaccio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by pongfugrasshopper pongfugrasshopper wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  

It seems like it... compare HT against Wang Chuqin/Lin Gaoyuan and against Togami. It seems like he was working on something... He gave Togami all the time in the world to counterloop...

HT doesn't do late timing BH spinny loop in general, that's more of a Timo Boll or Lin Yun Ju shot.

HT was also pretty much blocking all match long as if he's lazy to attack lol...

My guess is that he's working on his passive game and push control...but you can't win with such slow shotmaking at the highest level unless you have insane spin (which he doesn't have). I just watched his semifinal and it's the same terrible playstyle, he was just lucky to not have met an opponent high quality enough to punish him for his suboptimal playstyle.
They are former teammates so Togami knows Harimoto very well.  He put Harimoto's BH under time pressure either by driving it hard or by placing the ball such that Harimoto has to move to the ball.  Thus, Harimoto was often forced into passive blocking on the BH.  There's no way you use the prestigious All Japan as your training ground for your passive control game.  You can do that in team practices or League matches, but the All Japan is not the time or place for it.  I credit Togami for his controlled aggression in his matches with both Shinozuka and Harimoto.

I suspect that is indeed what Harimoto is doing, maybe he only wants the big tournaments and beat the CNT players. For eg against Lin Gaoyuan or Wang Chuqin he varied his serve so much more, the BH opening loops are taken a lot earlier and with a lot more sting and varied placement, and he doesn't miss chances to aggressively BH punch counter or FH counterloop during rallies, none of the relaxed blocking nonsense he showed here. 

Togami is a good player but not yet at the quality of Harimoto's A game imo. 

Sure, Harimoto's A game is better than Togami's A game. I disagree that Harimoto was working on his passive game and push control. Why not also work on service variation? Or try out different serves such as reverse pendulum? In contrast, Togami did a reverse pendulum serve when leading 10:9 in the second set and he also introduced some punch serves later. Imo, the All-Japan Championship is prestigious enough for Harimoto to want to win it. In fact, he's probably so competitive that he wants to win every official match.

Instead, I think that he tends to be nervous and play it too safe when he is the favorite. If you add an opponent who is on fire, the result is more losses vs lower-ranked players than one would expect. Against FZD and WCQ, Harimoto was the underdog, he had nothing to lose and he came up with his A+ game.

Togami performed better on the day and deserved to win. That's the beauty of sport! Hopefully, he can replicate this performance on the international stage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/31/2023 at 8:10pm
I'm not entirely sure how prestigious the all Japan is, given that Harimoto has won many other international competitions already (pro tour grand finals for eg)... It's not like it's the Chinese national championships, even that is skipped by the main CNT players from time to time...

Also, Harimoto has won this tournament already - he probably isn't too impressed with winning it again...


Edited by blahness - 01/31/2023 at 9:01pm
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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zeio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2023 at 1:53am
In terms of prestige, All-Japan TTC is akin to China National Games. All top Japanese players never miss it. They are not merely representing themselves. They're also representing their respective prefectures and affiliations.

https://jtta.or.jp/news/11507
Yokoi is representing Osaka and Shitennoji High School

Hayata is representing Fukuoka and Nippon Life


The importance of All-Japan 2023 and 2024 is unparalleled. They play a big role in the selection race. And again, Harimoto was only one step away from achieving the first triple crown for men in 40 years. The last few encounters against Togami were unfavorable for Harimoto as well. Togami's Chinese nickname is not unfounded.

Harimoto vs Togami
Zennihon Takkyu 2020 SF 4-3
Nojima Cup QF 4-3
Zennoh Cup Fukuoka F 1-4
Zennihon Takkyu 2023 F 2-4

Edited by zeio - 02/02/2023 at 8:21am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2023 at 8:09am
In terms of dan,
10-dan: Olympic Champion in MS/WS/XD
9-dan: WTTC Champion in MS/WS/MD/WD/XD
8-dan: Asian Games Champion or ATTC Champion in MS/WS/MD/WD/XD
7-dan: All-Japan TTC Champion (General) in MS/WS/MD/WD/XD
...

Tieba users happen to be debating on this topic.
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8239583858
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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mykonos96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2023 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  

Its just denial, fans cant bear the fact HT couldnt win and say he didnt wanted to win like Nat championship is some minor tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2023 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

"I have a feeling that Harimoto couldn't care less about this competition and was just using it to hone his weaker skills"
From the points I saw, HT's backhand was no where as sharp as Togami's.  Are you saying HT is deliberately dumbing down his BH in order to improve another shot?  

Its just denial, fans cant bear the fact HT couldnt win and say he didnt wanted to win like Nat championship is some minor tournament.

according to Zeio's link, it is only considered a 7th Dan LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/01/2023 at 11:39pm
Guys, there is a reason no one has done what Harimoto was trying to do in 40 years amongst men.  He played by far the most matches in the tournament.  He lost to a deserving opponent, but I find it hard to understand why it is unacceptable to point out that he also played the toughest schedule of the event.  He just wasn't so much better than everyone else that he couldn't lose.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH: GT
BH: GT
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2023 at 5:46am
There's just a lot of Harimoto haters on this forum (who just hate blindly), but it's clear to any unbiased eye that Harimoto didn't play his normal A game in all Japan for some reason (intentional to test techniques, or maybe he couldn't care, or he's too tired or a combination of these)
-------
Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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tom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2023 at 8:53am
So is one better than the other? Haters or fanboys how makes up excuses?  We have to be objective about the merits(or the lack of it) of the two approaches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/02/2023 at 9:00am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

So is one better than the other? Haters or fanboys how makes up excuses?  We have to be objective about the merits(or the lack of it) of the two approaches.
So what's your objective analysis, tom?
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