Zennihon Takkyu 2023/All-Japan TTC 2023, 1/23-29

pongfugrasshopper wrote: tom wrote: So is one better than the other? Haters or fanboys how makes up excuses?  We have to be objective about the merits(or the lack of it) of the two approaches. So what's your objective analysis, tom?

  If you hate him state the reasons clearly .  On the other hand don't make excuses for him either

blahness wrote: There's just a lot of Harimoto haters on this forum (who just hate blindly), but it's clear to any unbiased eye that Harimoto didn't play his normal A game in all Japan for some reason (intentional to test techniques, or maybe he couldn't care, or he's too tired or a combination of these)

Such a casual take to think that someone shows up to their national championships without the intention of winning. Pro players still take a great deal of pride in winning domestically, if they truly don't care, they won't show up (see Jha, and others) - but it is a hit to the ego to lose your national champs as the favorite. Tomokazu has spoken a great deal of how how much he respects Togami's game, and how he plays worse as the match favorite, so it is an interesting suggestion that he used the finals as a testing grounds or that his change in usual shot selection had nothing to do with the pressure Togami put him under.

tom wrote: bard romance wrote: tom wrote: pongfugrasshopper wrote: tom wrote: So is one better than the other? Haters or fanboys how makes up excuses?  We have to be objective about the merits(or the lack of it) of the two approaches. So what's your objective analysis, tom? if you are talking about this tournament - I don't know, only saw a few shots where he was clearly outplayed by Togami Then what happened in the rest of the points that Togami won? In an average match between relatively closely contested players, do you expect the victor to "clearly outplay" the loser on the majority of points? don't understand your comment.  I have said this previously on this thread about the match.  The main thing is "I only saw a few points" of the match (I rarely watch HT points nevermind the whole match because of his antics) and Togami clearly outplayed HT in most if not all of them.  Hope you are clear on my wanted to say.

blahness wrote: mykonos96 wrote: blahness wrote: There's just a lot of Harimoto haters on this forum (who just hate blindly), but it's clear to any unbiased eye that Harimoto didn't play his normal A game in all Japan for some reason (intentional to test techniques, or maybe he couldn't care, or he's too tired or a combination of these) Yes there are, but Harimoto fans are right and haters are wrong? If Harimoto didnt played well could have been that togami  turned off HT in his game is what tactics are for dont you think?  HT was defeated period. Togami played not so well in team worlds but it seems he handles pressure better than HT Dont you think that a more logical reason is that Togami was better? I'm neither a fan or a hater, but it seems that there's a lot of weird comments always about Harimoto, despite him having the best record against CNT players as a non CNT player. Nobody has addressed my point that this is clearly not Harimoto's A game for sure by any unbiased eye. It's not "making excuses" but an objective observation. It's the same with Yoshimura winning against Ma Long just after he recovered from Covid - sure he won but it was clear as day that it simply wasn't Ma Long's A game. Btw Togami couldn't even win against a weakened sluggish Ma Long at that tournament while Yoshimura did the job cleanly. Togami brought his A+ game to Harimoto's B game, sure Togami is gonna win...which is exactly what happened.

Ultimately, Togami winning the All Japan is a good development for the JNT.  All countries need a strong top 3 for Teams events.  Harimoto and Shinozuka made tremendous progress last year.  If it takes a Herculean effort for Togami to win the tournament, then so be it.  Let's just hope this motivates him to progress further in international tournaments.

pongfugrasshopper wrote: Ultimately, Togami winning the All Japan is a good development for the JNT.  All countries need a strong top 3 for Teams events.  Harimoto and Shinozuka made tremendous progress last year.  If it takes a Herculean effort for Togami to win the tournament, then so be it.  Let's just hope this motivates him to progress further in international tournaments.

Edited by blahness - 02/03/2023 at 9:12pm

blahness wrote: pongfugrasshopper wrote: Ultimately, Togami winning the All Japan is a good development for the JNT.  All countries need a strong top 3 for Teams events.  Harimoto and Shinozuka made tremendous progress last year.  If it takes a Herculean effort for Togami to win the tournament, then so be it.  Let's just hope this motivates him to progress further in international tournaments. Imo he has a good consistent two wing mid distance looping game, but his issue is that he's not even close to Fan Zhendong or even European levels of physicality/power to execute it at an even higher level. With his height and build he should focus a bit more on the close table game and the serve/receive game where technique reigns supreme (not power).  It is telling that Togami struggles quite a bit outside Japan, and it has something to do with his playstyle. It's funny how consistently mykonos and tom hate Harimoto hahahaha

I'm a fan of most top players 

WTT CT Amman 2023
MS R16
Karlsson 3-1 Togami
G3 510, 1311

zeio wrote: Next question for brand-new 2-time champion Togami (beating Shinozuka and Harimoto): Suppose Togami = Zhou Qihao, disprove it. Mizutani: I'm grateful to have won so many times before Harimoto came along. Harimoto: I'm grateful to have won once before Uda and Togami came along. Douban users are furious... https://www.douban.com/group/topic/279870725/?start=100 momo 2023-01-29 11:50:50 广东 有人说户上全年备战全日锦xswl Some people say that Togami prepares for the Zennihon all year round LMAO Akai 2023-01-29 11:54:15 湖南 户上内战内行…… Togami civil war expert... 玉玉 2023-01-29 12:42:56 山东 (Screenshot of Togami's entry on yoger.com) http://m.yoger.com.cn/info-33067.html 户上隼辅出生于2001年，是日本男乒年轻选手中的佼佼者，内战表现最优异的运动员。 SHUNSUKE Togami was born in 2001. He is a leader among young Japanese men's table tennis players and the best performer in civil wars. 太好笑了 LOL 不搞热门产品 2023-01-29 14:21:24 澳大利亚 户上全年备战全日锦。。我真信了。。。。 Togami prepares for Zennihon throughout the year. . I really believe it. . . . 好像吃了慢慢泥 2023-01-29 14:52:19 辽宁 户上是全年研究🇯🇵选手吗 Is Togami studying 🇯🇵 players year-round? 大碗君山银针茶 2023-01-29 14:56:36 黑龙江 真不愧是全年备战全日锦。。 Truly lives up to preparing for Zennihon all year round. . Akai 2023-01-29 14:59:36 湖南 户上内战�£么能打为什么外战�£么菜 Togami can fight so well in the civil war, why is the foreign war so bad? 丹羽小饼干 楼主 2023-01-29 15:03:12 上海 户上 对自己人怎么这么重拳出击……在外面谁也打不过 Togami, why do you hit your own people so hard...can't beat anyone away from home 不搞热门产品 2023-01-29 15:08:38 澳大利亚 张本智和👊🏻不要让内战王越来越�£张！ Harimoto👊🏻 Don't let the Civil War King get cocky! 271 2023-01-29 15:15:09 四川 恭喜户上，确实内战行啊 Congratulations Togami, indeed the civil war expert 人间忽晚 2023-01-29 15:15:33 广东 内战。。 Civil war.. momo 2023-01-29 15:17:09 河北 户上名不虚传全年备战全日锦 Togami's reputation of prepping for Zennihon year round is well-deserved momo (wait for miracle) 2023-01-29 15:20:06 贵州 户上你外战稍微支�£�点也不至于你阴阳怪气纸盒的时候�£么多人说你狂了… Togami, if you were a little stiffer in foreign wars, not as many people would have said that you went bold when you harassed Box... momo (wait for miracle) 2023-01-29 15:24:37 贵州 哇苹果盒断层了，大登继续支�£�，支持你拳打雨天脚踢户小鸟，支持和纸盒一起上巴黎 Ah, Apple Box(Apple for Hayata/Box for Harimoto) is all alone. Hiroto continues to stiffen. I support you to punch Rainny Day (Uda) and kick Birdie (Togami). I support you to go to Paris with Box. momo 2023-01-29 15:25:15 河北 雨天行驶你在哪里… Where are you, Rainny Day... 想养一只小耶 2023-01-29 15:25:19 山东 户上你外战稍微支�£�点也不至于你阴阳怪气纸盒的时候�£么多人说你狂了… momo 他说什么了👂🏻 What did he say👂🏻 丹羽小饼干 楼主 2023-01-29 15:29:28 上海 我还记得上次大登赢了小鸟他开嘲讽说以前打了�£么多次都没赢过 真的想登登再赢他😭 I still remember the last time Hiroto beat Birdie, he taunted and said that he [Shinozuka] had never won so many times before. I really want Deng Deng [Shinozuka] to beat him again😭 momo (wait for miracle) 2023-01-29 15:32:04 贵州 我还记得上次大登赢了小鸟他开嘲讽说以前打了�£么多次都没赢过 真的想登登再赢他😭 丹羽小饼干 户小鸟真的太狂了，但凡他外战支�£�了也不说他啥了，外战外行内战内行还狂得不行，观感好差 Birdie is really too bold, if only he were stiffer in foreign wars then I wouldn't say a word, but he is an amateur in foreign wars and an expert in civil wars and so bold. The impression is so bad 笑容满分苹果酱 2023-01-29 15:34:36 湖南 他说什么了👂🏻 想养一只小耶 大意就是说纸盒太不稳定老是一二轮游，不配当霓虹一哥……我满头问号？按照他当时说这话时两个人的成绩（现在其实纸盒也是断层领先），纸盒不配难道他配吗？ The gist is that Box is too unstable, often exiting 1st or 2nd round, doesn't deserve to be Japan's No. 1...I was speechless? According to their results back when he said that (Box is actually leading by a mile now), if Box was not worthy, was he? 想养一只小耶 2023-01-29 15:37:45 山东 大意就是说纸盒太不稳定老是一二轮游，不配当霓虹一哥……我满头问号？按照他当时说这话时两个人 ... 笑容满分苹果酱 户上原来这么狂😮 Didn't know Togami is that bold😮 笑容满分苹果酱 2023-01-29 15:38:32 湖南 ？？？怎么好意思的啊 momo 我以为敢于公开放出这种豪言的人，起码有足够的实力和底气，至少外战成绩要好一点，结果…… I thought that those who dared to make such bold statements publicly at least had enough strength and confidence, and at least had better results in foreign wars. In the end... 丹羽小饼干 丹羽小饼干 楼主 2023-01-29 15:39:23 上海 (Screenshot of a Japanese TT blogger's post) md日乒博主太能吹了 两连冠就百年一遇的天才 鸟老师可以改名四千年 Yo mama Japanese TT blogger can blow it up. A 2-time Champion is already a prodigy in 100 years. Teacher Bird (Mizutani) can change his name to 4-thoussand-years Akai 2023-01-29 16:03:28 湖南 我又忘规则了，是不是只有积分前两名直通巴黎，第三人要等强化本部推荐…？ Noraaaa(休假版 是，前两名直通单打，第三人jtta推荐，所以以伊藤的外战能力，就算打不到前二应该也能去巴黎 Yes, top 2 qualify for singles, 3rd member by recommendation of JTTA, so given Ito's foreign war capaability, she can still go to Paris even if she can't make top 2 玉玉 2023-01-29 16:11:32 山东 虽然看起来很酸，但是我真的很不喜欢内战王，有这本事外战支�£�一点多好 It may sound sour grapes, but I really don't like Civil War King. If he's that good, then be stiffer in foreign wars 丹羽小饼干 丹羽小饼干 楼主 2023-01-29 16:17:01 上海 虽然看起来很酸，但是我真的很不喜欢内战王，有这本事外战支�£�一点多好 玉玉 是 我很烦说这样选拔公平的人 以前看世排不是更公平吗 Right, I am sick of those who say this selection system is fair. Wasn't it fairer to go by WR in the past Noraaaa(休假版 2023-01-29 16:26:58 海南 是，前两名直通单打，第三人jtta推荐，所以以伊藤的外战能力，就算打不到前二应该也能去巴黎 Akai 祝迷马女�£�好运…虽然我觉得如果打不了单打她可能就不想去了 参考亚运 Good luck to Ms. Mima...Although I think if she can't play singles, she may opt out of it. Refer to the Asian Games 丹羽小饼干 楼主 2023-01-29 16:28:44 上海 祝迷马女�£�好运…虽然我觉得如果打不了单打她可能就不想去了 参考亚运 Noraaaa(休假版 奥运还是不一样的 她之前跟uda搭混双应该也是考虑第三人吧 Olympics are still unique. Her pairing with Uda in XD should be in consideration of the 3rd member Noraaaa(休假版 2023-01-29 16:30:33 海南 奥运还是不一样的 她之前跟uda搭混双应该也是考虑第三人吧 丹羽小饼干 �£可能需要祝雨天行驶lucky了（）这半年他的内战外战感觉都不到能被推荐进团体的程度 Then perhaps I should wish Rainny Day lucky. In the past six months, his civil and foreign wars have not felt to the extent that he can be recommended for team 我要吃点点 (但行好事 莫问前程) 2023-01-29 16:31:30 浙江 祝迷马女�£�好运…虽然我觉得如果打不了单打她可能就不想去了 参考亚运 Noraaaa(休假版 亚运会和奥运会不是一回事，她本来说不打混双了，后面又回去打混双了就是积极争取去奥运会的机会，可惜🇯🇵没有什么能用的男左 The Asian Games and the Olympic Games are not the same thing. She said she would not play XD at first, and then her going back to play XD is proof that she wants to go to the Olympic Games. Unfortunately, there is no useful lefty man 钛合金防盗�£ 2023-01-29 18:19:34 四川 户上。。需要他的时候基本没一次能行，内战顶呱呱，外战膝盖比�£�花还软 Togami..When you need him, he can hardly get it done once. Excellent in civil wars, but his knees are softer than cotton in foreign wars

Edited by zeio - 02/10/2023 at 9:48am