Zhang Jike ALC Review vs Viscaria

Just recieved my new Zhang Jike ALC straight from Japan. Haven't weighed it yet, but I'll update when  I do. My impressions after playing with it for a week:

Hihttp://eshop.butterfly.co.jp/html/item/001/005/item4469.html

okeimakei wrote: - The blade is a bit heavier than Viscaria, but not by much. It is less head-heavy, so the blade is more solid when you wave it. It is notably faster, specially when counter-looping and lifting underspin with the forehand, but still mantains some of the short game touch that makes Viscaria (in my eyes) a little better than TBS. But yes, it is not as good as Viscaria in that respect.  - ZJK ALC is quite harder in its feel. I was hoping for something a bit softer, but the addition of power for attacking made the purchase worthwhile.

I think it's kind of funny that there seems to be quite a lot of disagreement concerning the Butterfly ALC blades. Or maybe it's just me...

I think that the Zhang Jike ALC is really similar to the Viscaria. But in contrast to your impressions, mine are that the Zhang Jike ALC is slightly but clearly softer than the Viscaria, and a tad slower than the Viscaria. The smaller head makes it a tiny bit more stable in my opinion.

Further the Zhang Jike ALC is in average lighter than the Viscaria from all I've heard (Zhang Jike ALC is in average lighter than 90 gr, the Viscaria is heavier than 90 gr).

In my opinion, the relative softness of the Zhang Jike ALC makes it ideal in combination with harder rubbers (e.g. Grip-S Europe).

I see that you use different rubbers than you used before for your comparison, so your impressions may be biased. On the other hand, if you weigh your blades and it is clearly above 90 gr (say 94 gr), then probably your blade is really different from mine in terms of feel.

ejmaster wrote: i agree with okeimakei. the zjk is harder and touch in the short game is worse than +90 gr. viscaria.   for me also the blocking touch is worse.   imo the viscaria (+89-90 gr.) is a better blade.

ejmaster, I assume it's like we said the last time: they play in the same ball park and the differences between two Viscarias or Zhang Jike ALC's is probably about the same as between a Viscaria and a Zhang Jike ALC.

For what it's worth (probably not very much since it is essentially an advertisement by Butterfly...) here a translation from Butterly.tt (German site), where the blade is also available since recently:

"Many players already know and appreciate the unique feel of our world's most popular classic Viscaria. With the Zhang Jike ALC, a revised and improved version of its predecessor Viscaria, we were able to increase the feeling for the ball again a track and make the touch a bit softer.

Through the balanced harmony of speed and control the modern topspin player succeeds with hard attacks and precise blocks, as you know it yourself by Zhang Jike.

Due to its light weight combined with the enormous stability guarantees Zhang Jike ALC is a strong acceleration of a powerful play at the table and from the half distance.

We recommend that Zhang Jike ALC players who place great value on a blade with enough stability for a tough offensive game, but who do not want to miss an extraordinary topspin touch for a game with strong rotation."

ejmaster wrote: ... if you have a good viscaria high_arc i do not think the zjk improves the viscaria. ... zjk keeps playing with his viscaria.

Zhang Jike still uses his Viscaria, that's the best thing.

Improvement is always subjective.

Harder softer faster slower more vibration less vibration whatever.

Many players (e.g. Boll, Maze, Kishikawa, Mizutani, ...) all used the Viscaria for some time and then decided that they prefer something else, found their "improvement".

Maybe it's that you need a good Zhang Jike ALC such that it is an improvement . No, seriously, after our discussion the only things that are different for sure are the name of the blade, the color of the handle, the dragon on the top ply and the shape of the blade (smaller head size, different handle). The entire rest apparently depends on the particular blade.



Edited by High_Arc - 12/04/2011 at 5:11pm

For the original poster, I would think it would be difficult to say much about the difference between Viscaria and ZJK when you have used  different rubbers on the two blades.  Certainly the Tenergy Spinart combination will be quite a bit heavier than what you had before.

As for whoever commented about disagreements about Bttfly ALC blades, it is mainly because they are all so similar, two different players could have a completely different impression as to which one is faster or softer or whatever, and both could be correct.  This is because two Viscarias could be more different from each other than either is compared to a particular TBS.  I have had many Viscarias and I know this is true..  I think the main differences among various TBS and TB-ALC blades and Viscaria are that the handles are different so this produces some different weight balance.  However, I have not tried the ZJK blade.  Maybe they really are very much different.  My guess (without having used it, so it really is a guess) is that tehy are sufficiently similar that after a week or two your level playing with one would be exactly the same as it would be playing with the other.  I am absolutely convinced that is the case for Viscaria and TB-ALC.

Baal wrote: For the original poster, I would think it would be difficult to say much about the difference between Viscaria and ZJK when you have used  different rubbers on the two blades.  Certainly the Tenergy Spinart combination will be quite a bit heavier than what you had before. As for whoever commented about disagreements about Bttfly ALC blades, it is mainly because they are all so similar, two different players could have a completely different impression as to which one is faster or softer or whatever, and both could be correct.  This is because two Viscarias could be more different from each other than either is compared to a particular TBS.  I have had many Viscarias and I know this is true..  I think the main differences among various TBS and TB-ALC blades and Viscaria are that the handles are different so this produces some different weight balance.  However, I have not tried the ZJK blade.  Maybe they really are very much different.  My guess (without having used it, so it really is a guess) is that tehy are sufficiently similar that after a week or two your level playing with one would be exactly the same as it would be playing with the other.  I am absolutely convinced that is the case for Viscaria and TB-ALC.

I do believe I had a lightweight Viscaria, and that the ZJK is faster and with a bigger handle. Everything else, I agree, may vary. 

I've found the TB ZLF slightly slower than the TBS, though still fast. The Viscaria should be faster, but the TB ZLF is a great looping blade with a very woody feel.

Edited by LGL_fan - 12/06/2011 at 12:48pm

I have played with both zjk-cs and tbs-cs, the zjk is faster than the tbs. however, the zjk is a lot slower than some of the other all wood blade, such as the Stiga Rosewood. Because the zjk is slow, I had to upgrade to a Timo Boll T500-cs instead.

liulin04 wrote: I have played with both zjk-cs and tbs-cs, the zjk is faster than the tbs. however, the zjk is a lot slower than some of the other all wood blade, such as the Stiga Rosewood. Because the zjk is slow, I had to upgrade to a Timo Boll T500-cs instead.

Speedster wrote: liulin04, I thought zjk-cs and tbs-cs are more or less the same as viscaria-cs(taksim). You are saying these ALC paddles including taksim are slower than Rosewood?

A Taksim is not a c-pen version of a Viscaria, it is much more like Iolite.  The inner ply of Taksim is very much thicker and the blade is faster and stiffer.  The only thing alike is the color scheme in the handle and the fact that both have ALC, so a lot of people just assume they are the same.  Examine the two blades face to face and the differences are not even subtle.  They are very very different blades.

I agree with Kurokami that sometimes the information on Butterfly NA website is inaccurate based on my own experience with some of the products.  I am told at times it does not agree with information on Japanese website, but since I don't speak or read Japanese, have not been able to verify that part.  It is interesting to me that Kurokami verifies that.

Kurokami, can you clarify something in your last post that I didn't understand.  Are you saying that most people who have tried the newer ZJK-ALC blade  don't like it, or are you referring to the earlier ZJK blade?  I thought personally that the new ZJK-ALC blade was ok (I have only tried one for about five minutes), and a definite improvement over earlier ZJKs (I owned one, played with several, didn't much like any of them).  Still not as good as most or the Viscarias I have owned, though I have to also say that the last two Viscarias I have bought have been a bit disappointing (faster and at the same time lighter than I like, which seems like a contradiction but is not, suggesting something in gluing process to me, or maybe difference in wood).  There is a lot of variability in things made of wood.