Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  Help Desk Help Desk  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 2014 Men's World Cup.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

2014 Men's World Cup.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 16171819>
Author
ocvillager View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/06/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ocvillager Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2014 at 4:35pm
both of these 2 players are not just good but great and excellent. U dont' have to take side of any of them because if any of us can play just  5% as them, you could be very good at our club already.
After I watched their matches including with Timo Boll...then I went back to watch matches at our club tournament that most of the matches are 2400-2600 level. Seriously, I feel funny because what's a difference. These 2400-2600 players form look not flaw and just not entertaining as we just watched the world class.
 
So stop saying who's better.  Those 2 are close friends and each of them can win each other at any given day and time. After this match, the ratio is 7-4 to MALONG. That does not say ML is better or by winning WC, ZK is better.  The truth is ML now aday plays much better against non-Chinese players at any day. He might have difficulty playing against pip and chopper but he will manage to win.  ZK is like FD. They play much better against their own teammates because they are familiar with their games and strategy so well. THat can tell you that ZK and FD can flick from receiving service from any teammates but not to sometime a simple serve from other foreign players.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
AJay View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 184
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2014 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

In all honesty, ZJK did not play well in any of his matches, even in the 4:0 vs Adrian Crisan. This is the worst footwork he's had in a tournament in his life. He was not sharp, not aggressive, no yelling, he REALLY struggled with Timo and was hesitant on half of the points. I have never seen him that hesitant either. Of course the last game was Ma Long was a toss up, though I don't think it was a 50:50. Even at 10:10 i liked his chances slightly better. Last two points pretty much summarize the two players: When down to the wire, ZJK will go to his BH, and when in a corner vs Ma Long, he will go long to ML's BH.
I am hoping this was because of this decease and he gets healthy for 2015 because he will have to work hard to earn a spot for the olympics. I frankly don't think he's gona win the next WTTC, he doesn't need it, and ML is about to commit a suicide, and will be really bad for everyone if ZJK gets 3 in a row and blank ML, and in China these things just don't happen.


+1

ZJK was caught flat-footed or wrong-footed numerous times.    In the past, I think he would have muscled it out.      Also, I didn't see him do any of those amazing bounces in between points.

On the one hand, it shows how dangerous he is as an opponent.   Even without being 100% he knows how to pick his spots and out-smart you.    Back him into a corner, he will show you a different game that you can't handle.    

On the other, the biggest obstacle for ZJK is his injuries.     At some point certain treatments stop being effective and do more harm than good.    From now on, I am not sure if ZJK can actually get any better in physical terms.    Therefore I also agree it is a tall order for him to win another grand-slam title.    In fact, he won't waste any efforts to win another Pro Tour or even World Cup.
Back to Top
JacekGM View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/17/2013
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2014 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

In all honesty, ZJK did not play well in any of his matches, even in the 4:0 vs Adrian Crisan. This is the worst footwork he's had in a tournament in his life. He was not sharp, not aggressive, no yelling, he REALLY struggled with Timo and was hesitant on half of the points. I have never seen him that hesitant either. Of course the last game was Ma Long was a toss up, though I don't think it was a 50:50. Even at 10:10 i liked his chances slightly better. Last two points pretty much summarize the two players: When down to the wire, ZJK will go to his BH, and when in a corner vs Ma Long, he will go long to ML's BH.
I am hoping this was because of this decease and he gets healthy for 2015 because he will have to work hard to earn a spot for the olympics. I frankly don't think he's gona win the next WTTC, he doesn't need it, and ML is about to commit a suicide, and will be really bad for everyone if ZJK gets 3 in a row and blank ML, and in China these things just don't happen.

Again, I doubt ML or ZJK will go to the next Olympic singles... XX and FZD are much more likely.
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
Back to Top
mrdoodzki View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/10/2011
Location: Philippines
Status: Offline
Points: 1273
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrdoodzki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2014 at 9:01pm
zhang jike's celebration is making its way to mainstream media. it's in yahoo usa

https://gma.yahoo.com/table-tennis-star-zhang-jikes-victory-celebration-costs-171746048--abc-news-entertainment.html
Blade -- Stiga Clipper

FH -- DHS Hurricane 3

BH -- Japtec Experience


HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/28/2014 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by RPB23 RPB23 wrote:

Good translation.

Only place needs to do better is in 希望大家还是能正确看待.
正确看待 is not in a positive manner. Rather, a right way to look at it.  

Basically, Ma Long wanted his fans to look at ZJK's behavior after the match in a understandable manner. 

Ma Long is really a super nice guy. It is hard for many folks not root for him.

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by Ma Long Ma Long wrote:

非常感谢大家的留言,这样一场比赛大家期待已久希望大家没有白熬夜,我们都尽最大的努力但肯定还是有输赢这就是竞技体育,继科的个性很强比完赛也是种释放,希望大家还是能正确看待,后面的路还要走继续努力吧奋斗奋斗

Thank you very much for all of your comments. This was the match every single one of you have been longing for all this time. I hope it was worth for you all to stay up late. We tried our best, but there can only be one winner. This is competitive sport. Jike has a strong character, his action after the match was sort of a release. I hope everyone can treat it in a positive manner. There is still a long way to go. So keep up. Rambo Smiley x 2
Thank you.  I appreciate your feedback.  Before I go in depth as to the reason behind my choice of words,  I think it would be best to first cite a reference.  Below is an excerpt taken from the official transcript in both Chinese and English of a session of the Legislative Council meeting of the Hong Kong Government.

Quote 因此,我覺得政府應該要多進行鼓勵和宣傳教育,令大家也能夠正確對待死亡後的安排,令大家也可主動一點向親友透露自己的意願,萬一真的不幸離世, 遺屬亦可按其心意將器官捐出。

I, therefore, think that the Government should do more by way of encouragement, publicity and education, so that everyone can look at arrangements after death in a more positive manner and take a greater initiative in telling their families and friends about their wish after death, and in the event that they passed away unfortunately, their surviving families can donate their organs according to their wishes.

If one is to translate the phrase word by word and word for word, as literally as possible, then "正確看待" would best be translated as "to treat properly" or "to look upon correctly".  But then the meaning of the sentence becomes ambiguous and I am afraid that is not what Ma Long has wanted to put across, which is reflected in your interpretation.

Different standards for different people.  As all of us have witnessed the past few days, people's opinions are split, but what makes right from wrong?  Just as one person has neatly summarized it:



Edited by zeio - 10/28/2014 at 11:41pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
Ringer84 View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 04/12/2014
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 584
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringer84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:09am
Did anyone see Timo's impossible backhand flip against Zhang Jike, the backhand flip master himself?  It was an absolutely unreturnable shot at an incredible angle that left Jike completely frozen.  It was my favorite shot of all the highlights I've seen of this tournament:

http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=54Jv3GeP8j8&p=n#/238;249

Put it in infinitelooper for your enjoyment.


Edited by Ringer84 - 10/29/2014 at 12:09am
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:25am
Rosskopf has now turned to the media to openly voice his opinion on the matter.


But the Germans do not seem to think that way, on the night of the 28th, chief editor of Table Tennis World Eve said within her clique: "German team coach Zhu Xiaoyong has just shot me a photo through Weixin, which is about German team head coach Rosskopf voicing his support for ZJK in the local newspaper, saying that the fine is too heavy.  Zhu says that, the Germans, players included, also feel that ZJK was just too exhilarated after winning, that his action was slightly overboard, but not the same as throwing a fit from losing, and also it didn't affect the match.  A fine of over 30,000 euros for such a small mistake is too ruthless."

对于此事,国际乒坛名将奥恰洛夫也在自己的微博中说到:“虽然他有失控了几秒中,但请大家不过太过负面的评价他,因为他没有给任何人带来伤害!”
Regarding the matter, Ovtcharov has also expressed in his Weibo that "even though he went out-of-control for a few seconds, everyone please do not rate him too negatively, as he did not cause harm to anyone!"


Edited by zeio - 10/29/2014 at 12:32am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:34am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

infinitelooper.com? what a great site for tt people; thanks for that too!
why does timo raise a finger? just by habit? or does he say "OH I did not mean to strike such a sick & nasty shot...sawy".
it's sicker than sick!!! I mean zjk's return is close to perfect, barely above the net; timo's timing is just ideal; blade, rubber, man, incoming speed and spin...all was coming together for the awesome 3rd ball kill flick.
I think it clipped the net, albeit by the tiniest amount.  Boll is such a gentlemen.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 789
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 12:48am
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14203
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 2:07am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


If one is to translate the phrase word by word and word for word, as literally as possible, then "正確看待" would best be translated as "to treat properly" or "to look upon correctly".  But then the meaning of the sentence becomes ambiguous and I am afraid that is not what Ma Long has wanted to put across, which is reflected in your interpretation.



Since I don't read Chinese I can't comment authoritatively so I am writing as a native English speaker.  I can't see how  "in a more positive manner" works in English because I can't imagine Ma Long wants people to think that the kicking barrier incident was a good thing that needs to be seen in a positive manner, which is how I would interpret Zeio's phrase.  He clearly does not want people to look at it negatively, either (according to what he is saying)  Instead he wants people to see it accurately, he wants people to look upon it correctly.  Meaning, he understands that ZJK had a great deal of pent-up emotion and did not mean the actions as an insult to him (Ma Long) or anybody in particular.  So maybe the literal translation is good in this case?  It is not in the least bit ambiguous to me grammatically.  A more colloquial way to put it would be that he just wants people "to see it for what it was".  Just asking. 
Back to Top
roundrobin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/02/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4708
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 2:44am

he just wants people "to see it for what it was" (as a spontaneous release of pent-up emotion, not malicious)

This is the correct interpretation.
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red

Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:44am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:


 
Only the third place is happy.
Back to Top
*_strataras_* View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/19/2010
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 1151
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:48am
How can't be???The number one and number too, know very well that when they return to China, the Chinese goverment will take the 50% from the price!Despite the fact that the number one will take nothing :(
OSP Virtuoso SQST
Tenergy 05(black 1,9mm FH)
Tenergy 05(red 1,9mm BH)

Feedback
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 6:08am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


If one is to translate the phrase word by word and word for word, as literally as possible, then "正確看待" would best be translated as "to treat properly" or "to look upon correctly".  But then the meaning of the sentence becomes ambiguous and I am afraid that is not what Ma Long has wanted to put across, which is reflected in your interpretation.



Since I don't read Chinese I can't comment authoritatively so I am writing as a native English speaker.  I can't see how  "in a more positive manner" works in English because I can't imagine Ma Long wants people to think that the kicking barrier incident was a good thing that needs to be seen in a positive manner, which is how I would interpret Zeio's phrase.  He clearly does not want people to look at it negatively, either (according to what he is saying)  Instead he wants people to see it accurately, he wants people to look upon it correctly.  Meaning, he understands that ZJK had a great deal of pent-up emotion and did not mean the actions as an insult to him (Ma Long) or anybody in particular.  So maybe the literal translation is good in this case?  It is not in the least bit ambiguous to me grammatically.  A more colloquial way to put it would be that he just wants people "to see it for what it was".  Just asking. 
Baal, I'm sorry but that doesn't work.  "To see it for what it is, to take it for what it is, or to recognize it for what it is" means the true essence of something, or "看某物的本質" in Chinese, whose expression is entirely different and would deviate too much from the intended meaning of "正確看待".

Using the organ donation after death reference again, the word 正確 in the phrase "正確對待死亡" means right, correctly, or properly, which carries a positive connotation.  If we were to change it to "看死亡的本質" or "to see the true essence of death", which to me means to view death from a philosophical standpoint.  I doubt that is the intention of the council member, which is for the government to educate the general public in changing their perceptions of death, to recognize the potential benefits for the communities and not only see just the bad side of it, hence the choice of "in a positive manner".  I feel that is the same case for Ma Long.

Now back to your interpretation "he wants people to see it accurately".  The word accurately is expressed differently as "準確地" in Chinese, which is considered a related word with "正確地", but not synonymous.

The passage below is taken from an article on the Radio Television Hong Kong site.

……新聞報導的「正確性」與「準確性」既有內在聯繫又有明顯區別。「真實性」、「準確性」講的是新聞報導的屬性,重在事實,體現在新聞採集、製作的過程中,而「正確性」主要指新聞報導發出後產生的社會作用和影響,即報導效果。正確的報導必須是真實的、準確的,但是真實的、準確的報導從社會效果的某些角度看未必都是正確的。
...The "correctness" and "accurateness" of news reporting are both related yet different.  "Truthfulness" and "accurateness" mean the attribute of the news report, focusing on fact, which is reflected in the news gathering and the production process, whereas "correctness" mostly means the social roles and effects after the issuance of the news report, which is the effect of reporting.  Correct reporting must be true and accurate, but true and accurate reporting is not necessarily correct when viewed from certain angles of its social impact.


Edited by zeio - 10/29/2014 at 6:19am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
assiduous View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/01/2011
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2521
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 9:36am
I think ITTF flucked up twice here. 

First they accept ZJK's own offer to return 45000 USD for this NOTHING.

Second, they decide it would look STRONG if they present it to the public as THEY IMPOSED the fine, with their 'strong hand'. 

But now this whole thing backfired in ITTF's ass. Virtually everyone is expressing understanding to ZJK's action, and everyone is condemning the heavy fine. Do not underestimate the weight of social media. I actually think that if the same thing happens again, they will NOT DARE place such outlandish fine again. That was an ugly decision and I believe they now regret it. They know the even would have looked much better on TV if ITTF had fined him 2000 USD.
puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
Back to Top
mhnh007 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2800
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 9:38am
Zeio translation is fine. I think we all know what ML meant to basically keep an open mind, which most of us do anyway.  When we saw what happened, most of us probabbly went 'Jez... that's crazy!', and that's that.  The message is actually for a few who felt sad, or devastated, and fear that some children will not grow up to be the same, and truly hope that ZKJ will be better and thing like this will never ever happens again , some even trying to see a different angle like it can be a hidden agenda or somethig bigger than what it is.
Back to Top
slevin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/15/2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3600
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 11:21am
Can there be only 1 single nominated coach per player for the whole tournament? 

I ain't got no skin in the game but I wonder how ML's results would have been different if the CNT allowed the 2 finalists to have a coach each. That should normalize their results (as, if there was a non-Chinese in the finals, the Chinese finalist would have had one). If having coaches was allowed in the finals, the CNT should have nominated them for the players.

I agree with fatt: while winning 7th game 12-10 does have big financial / esteem impact, from a purely TT perspective, they were basically equal adversaries (though we have to remind ourselves that ZJK was injured).
Back to Top
RPB23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 02/23/2014
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RPB23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:16pm
In English, looking at something in a positive manana, means looking something on its up side, or, the half-cup full analogy if you may.

Here, no way Ma Long was endorsing Zhang's post match behavior by asking us to look something good out of kicking the barriers. Rather, he was asking us to be understandable to Zhang's outburst(because he was under great pressure, bla,bla...)

If the Chinese used here is "看待“, in stead of "正确看待", your translation would be proper.
  
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by RPB23 RPB23 wrote:

Good translation.

Only place needs to do better is in 希望大家还是能正确看待.
正确看待 is not in a positive manner. Rather, a right way to look at it.  

Basically, Ma Long wanted his fans to look at ZJK's behavior after the match in a understandable manner. 

Ma Long is really a super nice guy. It is hard for many folks not root for him.

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by Ma Long Ma Long wrote:

非常感谢大家的留言,这样一场比赛大家期待已久希望大家没有白熬夜,我们都尽最大的努力但肯定还是有输赢这就是竞技体育,继科的个性很强比完赛也是种释放,希望大家还是能正确看待,后面的路还要走继续努力吧奋斗奋斗

Thank you very much for all of your comments. This was the match every single one of you have been longing for all this time. I hope it was worth for you all to stay up late. We tried our best, but there can only be one winner. This is competitive sport. Jike has a strong character, his action after the match was sort of a release. I hope everyone can treat it in a positive manner. There is still a long way to go. So keep up. Rambo Smiley x 2
Thank you.  I appreciate your feedback.  Before I go in depth as to the reason behind my choice of words,  I think it would be best to first cite a reference.  Below is an excerpt taken from the official transcript in both Chinese and English of a session of the Legislative Council meeting of the Hong Kong Government.

Quote 因此,我覺得政府應該要多進行鼓勵和宣傳教育,令大家也能夠正確對待死亡後的安排,令大家也可主動一點向親友透露自己的意願,萬一真的不幸離世, 遺屬亦可按其心意將器官捐出。

I, therefore, think that the Government should do more by way of encouragement, publicity and education, so that everyone can look at arrangements after death in a more positive manner and take a greater initiative in telling their families and friends about their wish after death, and in the event that they passed away unfortunately, their surviving families can donate their organs according to their wishes.

If one is to translate the phrase word by word and word for word, as literally as possible, then "正確看待" would best be translated as "to treat properly" or "to look upon correctly".  But then the meaning of the sentence becomes ambiguous and I am afraid that is not what Ma Long has wanted to put across, which is reflected in your interpretation.

Different standards for different people.  As all of us have witnessed the past few days, people's opinions are split, but what makes right from wrong?  Just as one person has neatly summarized it:

Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:21pm
There is something bigger now going on in China.  A conversation with LGL in a recent TV program has gone viral.  It is about how LGL "coerced" Wang Hao into treating the Olympic singles final as lost, which was meant as a way to take some of the weight off of him and also to serve as a buffer so that he wouldn't break down during the teams event in case he lost.  LGL and WH had both spoken multiple times to the media about this right after the Olympics.  Now the media has gotten the wrong idea and interpret that as a team order to fix the match.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
RPB23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 02/23/2014
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RPB23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:31pm
Good points.

The irony is had the fine been just $2000, which would be pretty reasonable, it wouldn't have generated such media disturbance or exposure.  A post match celebration going a little far resulted a fine of the whole price money is unheard of, hence it generated media attention.

Usually, a penalty of voiding the prize money only happen when the winning player was caught cheating, or violated drug or equipment rules. Of course, the title will also be discredited. In ZJK's case, none of these happened and he still holds the title. 

Keeping the title but voiding the whole prize money? What a bizarre decision! 


Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

I think ITTF flucked up twice here. 

First they accept ZJK's own offer to return 45000 USD for this NOTHING.

Second, they decide it would look STRONG if they present it to the public as THEY IMPOSED the fine, with their 'strong hand'. 

But now this whole thing backfired in ITTF's ass. Virtually everyone is expressing understanding to ZJK's action, and everyone is condemning the heavy fine. Do not underestimate the weight of social media. I actually think that if the same thing happens again, they will NOT DARE place such outlandish fine again. That was an ugly decision and I believe they now regret it. They know the even would have looked much better on TV if ITTF had fined him 2000 USD.
Back to Top
RPB23 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 02/23/2014
Location: U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RPB23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 3:53pm
I would say, ML and ZJK still have better chance go to the next Olympic singles. XX is very likely also goes though he may not be playing the singles. Fan has the least chance.

However, the big factor is who wins the upcoming World's single. If XX wins the single, he has the up hand for one of two single slots. Then, it would be interesting to see who will be left between ML and ZJK. I guess, whoever appears in the final will be closer to the single ticket.

Well, with Chinese, sometimes it is not just performance. inner-circle connections, politics also get to play.

I am rooting for the messy situation in which XX and FZD  meet at the World's single final. 
  
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

Again, I doubt ML or ZJK will go to the next Olympic singles... XX and FZD are much more likely.
Back to Top
mg View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/18/2011
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 984
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 4:09pm
Funny, nobody mentions that ZJK had to play a bit dirty this time in order do win it. I mean cleaning his side of the table with the towel during the sets was quite intentional and there was quite a bit of stretching and walking around at certain points of the game. I mean OK, pressure, maybe an injury (ML also had his waist wrapped around so you never know) but it was intentional. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to win but ML had been slammed for less theatrics between the points. I agree that ML lost the last set because he became predictable when serving at the end, same goes for Boll who had a real chance to win. IMO ZJK had always won against ML with some mind games, that's OK -if somebody has a weakness you just exploit it. But ML has really improved mentally recently and ZJK knew it and didn't hesitate to go further in order to break his rhythm. Anyway. About the pressure - it is just the same for ML or XX (actually even worse -they haven't won anything in singles yet). So this can't be an excuse. If somebody likes his action on Sunday, that it his personal opinion. I don't. It was just totally out of place and stupid. And it didn't seem then he has any kind of injury. That being said I still think that these two are just the best players in the world right now and every encounter between them is a real pleasure for the fans.
My feedback:



http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47297&title=mg-feedback
Back to Top
ocvillager View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/06/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ocvillager Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 4:25pm
Agree
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Offline
Points: 7097
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by RPB23 RPB23 wrote:

In English, looking at something in a positive manana, means looking something on its up side, or, the half-cup full analogy if you may.

Here, no way Ma Long was endorsing Zhang's post match behavior by asking us to look something good out of kicking the barriers. Rather, he was asking us to be understandable to Zhang's outburst(because he was under great pressure, bla,bla...)

If the Chinese used here is "看待“, in stead of "正确看待", your translation would be proper.
Oh, please, check out this interview with Ma Long.  It roughly goes,

ML: Nah, I don't feel that.  It was a release after his victory.
Reporter: He had it reined in pretty hard, didn't he?
ML: Ah...right.  He is an athlete.  Ever since his loss in Tokyo, his mind has been under some pressure, more or less.  Then, after this win, he was able to release a bit!

While the endorsement aspect of his statement is open to interpretation, to me Ma Long does view it in a positive manner.  I'm not certain how anyone can understand the violent behavior of another without a positive attitude.

Again, it is not uncommon for "正確" to be translated as "positive".





Edited by zeio - 10/29/2014 at 6:05pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
zjkfanforever View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 10/20/2013
Location: united states
Status: Offline
Points: 98
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zjkfanforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by mg mg wrote:

Funny, nobody mentions that ZJK had to play a bit dirty this time in order do win it. I mean cleaning his side of the table with the towel during the sets was quite intentional and there was quite a bit of stretching and walking around at certain points of the game. I mean OK, pressure, maybe an injury (ML also had his waist wrapped around so you never know) but it was intentional. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to win but ML had been slammed for less theatrics between the points. I agree that ML lost the last set because he became predictable when serving at the end, same goes for Boll who had a real chance to win. IMO ZJK had always won against ML with some mind games, that's OK -if somebody has a weakness you just exploit it. But ML has really improved mentally recently and ZJK knew it and didn't hesitate to go further in order to break his rhythm. Anyway. About the pressure - it is just the same for ML or XX (actually even worse -they haven't won anything in singles yet). So this can't be an excuse. If somebody likes his action on Sunday, that it his personal opinion. I don't. It was just totally out of place and stupid. And it didn't seem then he has any kind of injury. That being said I still think that these two are just the best players in the world right now and every encounter between them is a real pleasure for the fans.


Can you please stop being a sour loser and take the loss gracefully like Ma Long did? What do you mean Zhang Jike had to play dirty to win? Each player wants to control the game so that it would play out the way he likes it. Some like it fast paced and others prefer slow paced, depending on their playing style. There's nothing wrong with what Zhang Jike did on court; otherwise, he would have received a warning from umpire. Both guys played well and either could have won, it was that close. Please do not put down what Zhang Jike had achieved, that's unfair to him for what he had gone through. He injured his back during practice back in China and had an injection to stop the pain before coming to the World Cup. He still felt numb in his back after arriving in Germany, and Liu Guoliang had to call doctor in China to seek advise on his conditions. The doctor said that if he's still not improving then maybe he should not play at all. But he persevered. Also considering that he had to play two 7 set games (a total of 14 sets) against two of the best players in the world on the same day within a few hours. So, please show some respect to the guy who had given all he has to win.

Furthermore, it's true that Ma Long had dominated over Zhang Jike in the past, but in 2014 the head-to-head record between the two were even prior to the World Cup final. The two met four times this year, and the win-loss ratio were 2-2, including:

Grand Final: Ma Long 4-3 Zhang Jike
Tokyo Trial: Zhang Jike 3-1 Ma Long
Tokyo Warm Up: Ma Long 3-1 Zhang Jike
CTTSL: Zhang Jike 3-1 Ma Long

So, now on any given day, either could win over the other. If Ma Long still thinks he could walk over Zhang Jike like his fans do and does not take him seriously as a dangerous opponent, then I won't be surprised if he looses again. Why did Zhang Jike react so "violently" after the win? Because he had tremendous respect for Ma Long as an opponent, and he knew that it's not an easy win and luck was on his side that day. Although Zhang Jike has four major titles under his belt before the World Cup, people still have no respect for his achievements just because he did not win any of his titles on route to beat Ma Long, the best player in the world in a lot of TT fans' eyes. He has to prove he is worthy of his achievements by beating Ma Long, his nemesis, in a major tournament and he did.
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/29/2014 at 7:33pm
The Ma long fans always say that ZJK can only beat chinese to win the champion. That is also very unfair. It is almost always chinese vs chinese in the final. So to get the champion, you got to beat a chinese opponent at the end. But before that, it is a long trip to the journey to the final. Like this world cup, it is not that easy for ZJK to beat the black horse Arun and Timo. 

When FZD leans more about the tricks of ML, he will start to beat him too. 
Back to Top
vutiendat1337 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/25/2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vutiendat1337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 2:22am
Originally posted by mg mg wrote:

Funny, nobody mentions that ZJK had to play a bit dirty this time in order do win it. I mean cleaning his side of the table with the towel during the sets was quite intentional and there was quite a bit of stretching and walking around at certain points of the game. I mean OK, pressure, maybe an injury (ML also had his waist wrapped around so you never know) but it was intentional. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to win but ML had been slammed for less theatrics between the points. I agree that ML lost the last set because he became predictable when serving at the end, same goes for Boll who had a real chance to win. IMO ZJK had always won against ML with some mind games, that's OK -if somebody has a weakness you just exploit it. But ML has really improved mentally recently and ZJK knew it and didn't hesitate to go further in order to break his rhythm. Anyway. About the pressure - it is just the same for ML or XX (actually even worse -they haven't won anything in singles yet). So this can't be an excuse. If somebody likes his action on Sunday, that it his personal opinion. I don't. It was just totally out of place and stupid. And it didn't seem then he has any kind of injury. That being said I still think that these two are just the best players in the world right now and every encounter between them is a real pleasure for the fans.

LOL, fanboyism at its best. Unlike ZJK, Ma Long is well-known for delaying tactics, wiping hands on the table, raising a hand right before opponents begins to serve. Ma Long did this on numerous occasions in the past during more or less important points. Once, Petr Korbel snapped and went on a brief rant because of that and got a yellow card. For what is worth, I spend a LOT of time watching TT matches both highlights on youtube and full versions (which I download to my pc) and I have seen Ma Lond doing it consistently more than ZJK against any given player. In fact, players like Timo or Dima, or any other player for that matter, have these moments once in a while due to pressure of the moment. But from I can see, with Ma Long it's more of a pattern whenever he wants to break the momentum. 

I agree with you, I didn't really notice ZJK being injured or playing visibly sub-par or anything but it's been released in press prior and after the tournament that ZJK had issues with his back and even needed an injection. Knowing that and given the opponents he had to face to win the this sorry-ass excuse of a major title, hats off to ZJK. 

In terms of tactics, in this match, ZJK was smarter and read ML's moves better then the other way around. For example, in the previous match against, Ma Long would do this unexpected "flat push" to BH side against ZJK's reverse pendulum which caught him off-guard more than once. This time, ZJK was prepared every single time. Plus, ZJK was saving that sick banana flick receive against the short ML's serve for the last 2 sets(if my memory serves) in order to use it when it counted the most. Yes, 7th game, deuce, it just doesn't get closer than that but ZJK won because he made the right choices and the right moves at the right time. Having said that, I am glad ZJK started to get a better read on ML compared to 2013 when ML would win in the 7th having exploited ZJK's weaknesses. 


bty petr korbel st
fh: donic bluefire red
bh: dawei iqul black
USATT:1811
Feedback me
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 13390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 6:20am
Originally posted by vutiendat1337 vutiendat1337 wrote:

Originally posted by mg mg wrote:

Funny, nobody mentions that ZJK had to play a bit dirty this time in order do win it. I mean cleaning his side of the table with the towel during the sets was quite intentional and there was quite a bit of stretching and walking around at certain points of the game. I mean OK, pressure, maybe an injury (ML also had his waist wrapped around so you never know) but it was intentional. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to win but ML had been slammed for less theatrics between the points. I agree that ML lost the last set because he became predictable when serving at the end, same goes for Boll who had a real chance to win. IMO ZJK had always won against ML with some mind games, that's OK -if somebody has a weakness you just exploit it. But ML has really improved mentally recently and ZJK knew it and didn't hesitate to go further in order to break his rhythm. Anyway. About the pressure - it is just the same for ML or XX (actually even worse -they haven't won anything in singles yet). So this can't be an excuse. If somebody likes his action on Sunday, that it his personal opinion. I don't. It was just totally out of place and stupid. And it didn't seem then he has any kind of injury. That being said I still think that these two are just the best players in the world right now and every encounter between them is a real pleasure for the fans.

LOL, fanboyism at its best. Unlike ZJK, Ma Long is well-known for delaying tactics, wiping hands on the table, raising a hand right before opponents begins to serve. Ma Long did this on numerous occasions in the past during more or less important points. Once, Petr Korbel snapped and went on a brief rant because of that and got a yellow card. For what is worth, I spend a LOT of time watching TT matches both highlights on youtube and full versions (which I download to my pc) and I have seen Ma Lond doing it consistently more than ZJK against any given player. In fact, players like Timo or Dima, or any other player for that matter, have these moments once in a while due to pressure of the moment. But from I can see, with Ma Long it's more of a pattern whenever he wants to break the momentum. 

I agree with you, I didn't really notice ZJK being injured or playing visibly sub-par or anything but it's been released in press prior and after the tournament that ZJK had issues with his back and even needed an injection. Knowing that and given the opponents he had to face to win the this sorry-ass excuse of a major title, hats off to ZJK. 

In terms of tactics, in this match, ZJK was smarter and read ML's moves better then the other way around. For example, in the previous match against, Ma Long would do this unexpected "flat push" to BH side against ZJK's reverse pendulum which caught him off-guard more than once. This time, ZJK was prepared every single time. Plus, ZJK was saving that sick banana flick receive against the short ML's serve for the last 2 sets(if my memory serves) in order to use it when it counted the most. Yes, 7th game, deuce, it just doesn't get closer than that but ZJK won because he made the right choices and the right moves at the right time. Having said that, I am glad ZJK started to get a better read on ML compared to 2013 when ML would win in the 7th having exploited ZJK's weaknesses. 



+1.  It's fairly ridiculous to watch such a great match and complain about things like cleaning the table in between games. That ZJK could repeat the pattern of the last two points of game 3 in game 7 in a very similar situation just reveals that he outmaneuvered ML at the right time.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 7:33am
Watch 2013 Kuwait open. zjk is much faster and activer.He beat ml 3:1 in the final.
Back to Top
john18 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 06/22/2014
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 7:58am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

There is something bigger now going on in China.  A conversation with LGL in a recent TV program has gone viral.  It is about how LGL "coerced" Wang Hao into treating the Olympic singles final as lost, which was meant as a way to take some of the weight off of him and also to serve as a buffer so that he wouldn't break down during the teams event in case he lost.  LGL and WH had both spoken multiple times to the media about this right after the Olympics.  Now the media has gotten the wrong idea and interpret that as a team order to fix the match.


I just read this article :

Liu Guoliang ordered Wang Hao to lose against Zhang Jike in London

I don't know if it's another translation mistake like zeio explained or not but I hope it is.


Edit :
Ok, it seems that it was a rough translation and out of context like zeio explained.

I corrected the post : translation instead of traduction



Edited by john18 - 10/30/2014 at 2:50pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 16171819>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.188 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.