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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 9:41am
Originally posted by mg mg wrote:

Funny, nobody mentions that ZJK had to play a bit dirty this time in order do win it.


Nobody mentions it because he didn't.  That stuff you mentioned is all pretty normal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:03am
Originally posted by john18 john18 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

There is something bigger now going on in China.  A conversation with LGL in a recent TV program has gone viral.  It is about how LGL "coerced" Wang Hao into treating the Olympic singles final as lost, which was meant as a way to take some of the weight off of him and also to serve as a buffer so that he wouldn't break down during the teams event in case he lost.  LGL and WH had both spoken multiple times to the media about this right after the Olympics.  Now the media has gotten the wrong idea and interpret that as a team order to fix the match.


I just read this article :

Liu Guoliang ordered Wang Hao to lose against Zhang Jike in London

I don't know if it's another traduction mistake like zeio explained or not but I hope it is.


Edit :
Ok, it seems that it was a rough traduction and out of context like zeio explained.

If you are familiar with Chinese system and culture you would know this report is BOGUS.
I am 100% sure that zeio is right and will tell you why. 
I don't know if LGL ordered WH to lose. I don't think so because ZJK is the least favorite from CNT to LGL. As a matter of fact he has always been keen of WH. Why on earth would he chose ZJK grand slam over WH grand slam?? But that's not my point. My point is that this doesn't even matter.
Because LGL would NEVER go public that he orders matches around. Chinese don't do that. They are very proud and honorable and would never cause such disgrace for themselves, the team and the country. There is just NO WAY IN HELL LGL would say that, regardless of what actually happened. If you told me it leaked out of somewhere, or those are speculations - whatever. But LGL go brag about it? - No.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RPB23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:03am
I don't think Kuwait Open plays best of 5.

Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Watch 2013 Kuwait open. zjk is much faster and activer.He beat ml 3:1 in the final.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:18am
Originally posted by RPB23 RPB23 wrote:

I don't think Kuwait Open plays best of 5.

Originally posted by kindof99 kindof99 wrote:

Watch 2013 Kuwait open. zjk is much faster and activer.He beat ml 3:1 in the final.

My mistake. It is 4:1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:22am
Here is the video for 2013 Kuwait final:




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by mg mg wrote:

Funny, nobody mentions that ZJK had to play a bit dirty this time in order do win it.


Nobody mentions it because he didn't.  That stuff you mentioned is all pretty normal.
No kidding.  I was a bit scared when I read mg comment.  If what ZJK did can be considered as dirty, oh boy! I would NOT be able to play at all, because all time I would be checking myself to see if I am doing anything dirty and unfair to my opponent LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:51am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

Originally posted by john18 john18 wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

There is something bigger now going on in China.  A conversation with LGL in a recent TV program has gone viral.  It is about how LGL "coerced" Wang Hao into treating the Olympic singles final as lost, which was meant as a way to take some of the weight off of him and also to serve as a buffer so that he wouldn't break down during the teams event in case he lost.  LGL and WH had both spoken multiple times to the media about this right after the Olympics.  Now the media has gotten the wrong idea and interpret that as a team order to fix the match.


I just read this article :

Liu Guoliang ordered Wang Hao to lose against Zhang Jike in London

I don't know if it's another translation mistake like zeio explained or not but I hope it is.


Edit :
Ok, it seems that it was a rough translation and out of context like zeio explained.

If you are familiar with Chinese system and culture you would know this report is BOGUS.
I am 100% sure that zeio is right and will tell you why. 
I don't know if LGL ordered WH to lose. I don't think so because ZJK is the least favorite from CNT to LGL. As a matter of fact he has always been keen of WH. Why on earth would he chose ZJK grand slam over WH grand slam?? But that's not my point. My point is that this doesn't even matter.
Because LGL would NEVER go public that he orders matches around. Chinese don't do that. They are very proud and honorable and would never cause such disgrace for themselves, the team and the country. There is just NO WAY IN HELL LGL would say that, regardless of what actually happened. If you told me it leaked out of somewhere, or those are speculations - whatever. But LGL go brag about it? - No.


Yeah, this article was "suspect" from the beginning and it was hard to believe that LGL, like you said, said himself that a match was fixed between CNT players.
After some resaerch, it is exactly like zeio explained : a bad translation and sentences taken out of context. I just wanted more sources (even if I trust zeio).

Edit :
I corrected the post : translation instead of traduction. Bad english, sorry :)

Edited by john18 - 10/30/2014 at 2:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 12:53pm
It would be great if ZJK throw his Viscaria paddle into the audience next time. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 1:15pm
What is a "traduction", anyone?
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

What is a "traduction", anyone?
Translation.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

What is a "traduction", anyone?
Translation.


Yes, I corrected the posts, thank you.
Sorry for the mistakes. My english is sometimes... Confused  :).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 5:22pm
I am extremely amused by people who insist to know everything and to be always right. If they care to read my whole comment they would see the line where I said that I don't think that ZJK doesn't deserve to win, maybe I expect too much. I just pointed some obvious facts. I haven't seen ZJK do these things in another game so I made some conclusions. Actually I haven't seen ANY other top player cleaning the table with the towel repeatedly during the sets. Some wise people try to tell me what to think. Don't bother. I know what ML has been doing in the past. I don't deny it. I was talking about Sunday. I was there, in the hall, don't try to tell what I have seen. When the Great ZJK does something, it is always OK and nobody should question it. Why? I liked the game, they both played great as a whole. And I never said that ML can't loose to ZJK. I said the latter played A BIT dirty and I still think so, if you don't agree that's OK, but you can't tell me to think the same way just because you say so. The umpire would react if there is something wrong? Really? After all the discussions about the umpires on this forum? Especially in such a situation? And poor ZJK reacted in this stupid way because there is a conspiracy against him? Just because he created some problems himself when he was young? He was given a second chance, I don't think that more could have been done. If he has a huge ego and can't accept the thought that he can loose against a player who is not less talented than him don't expect from me to have a great respect for him as a man. I don't think he needs to prove anything anymore. He can accomplish more but he has already proven that he is a great player and can win big tournaments. The rest is just his own ego. So no, I don't really feel for him and I don't think there are excuses. It has been always like that in the Chinese team, the same team that trained him to be a champion. You accept the whole package, not just the titles and the money.
My feedback:



http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47297&title=mg-feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vutiendat1337 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by mg<div>[/QUOTE mg
[/QUOTE wrote:


I am sure ego plays a role in his rivalry against Ma Long and it's quite apparent that ZJK is a man with huge pride. But think about this way. In 2 years, you achieve a Grand Slam winning major titles back to back that nobody ever did. You worked your ass off, you were kicked off the team once, you worked your way back, you learned your lesson, you struggled. After your achievement, you are not accepted as undisputed champion because you apparently never faced Ma Long and "only" had to beat WH, three times. It takes away from your sense of achievement, it takes away the merit. And no, it was not just some people on MyTT thinking that way. I asked my chinese roommate about it and he told me that even in China, the narrative is that ZJK won those titles only because he didnt play Ma Long and that Ma Long is still considered a better player. Don't you think you would be disappointed that you are not acknowledged? Being a champion doesn't mean shit if the world does not agree with it. He had much to prove and mainly to himself that he deserved what he earned. I don't think it's about someone being less talented or whatever you are trying to conjure up. 

In a way, ZJK was in the similar shoes as was young Michael Landers back in the day, youngest winner of US nationals but nobody really acknowledged it because the best players didn't participate due to boycott. But unlike Landers, ZJK proved it that he deserved the title. Simple as that. Some food for thought.
bty petr korbel st
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bh: dawei iqul black
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 6:04pm
The following is the TV program named "Voice" in which the discourse in question took place.  The original air date is October 25th.  The specific segment starts around 20:10.  The transcript is shown below and the translation after that.

Quote 因为我们2012年奥运会的时候
是改制了
比赛赛制改了
先打单打 后打团体
所以呢 我已经算到了
如果说输的这个人
思想工作是很难做的
他刚输完这个奥运会
你让他崩溃状态
去参加后边的团体赛
谁能做到
年轻的张继科能做到吗
马龙能做到吗
可能不一定做得到
那宁可让
曾经有两次第二的王皓 来吧

刘国梁: 有时候,个人胜利需要为集体胜利做牺牲

我跟王皓下了一个命令
我说皓 你一定要做好
以决赛输给张继科为荣
你必须调整好这样的心态
你王皓才有作用
所以下来 真的在决赛里边
王皓输给了张继科
但是在团体赛当中
他起到了中坚的作用
跟张继科继续配双打
获得了最后的胜利
我觉得是王皓其实很勇敢的
王皓的公心比私心强得多

>>>>>
Because the competition format had been changed for the 2012 Olympics, where the singles event came before the teams event, I knew beforehand, that when it came to the one losing, the mental preparation had gotta be a very difficult undertaking.

Just when he had lost this Olympics, letting him enter the teams event that followed in a devastated state, who could have been capable of that feat?  Could the young ZJK have been capable of it?  Could Ma Long have been capable of it?  Probably not.

Then (I) would rather let WH who'd had two runner-ups take up on it.  [TL's note: This is where an unfortunate interperation by the TV crew cuts in on the screen, that reads "LGL: There are times when one has to sacrifice individual victory for collective victory."  But it doesn't end there, when worse comes to worst...]

I gave WH an order.  I said "Hao, you've gotta do it well.  Take pride in losing to ZJK in the final.  You must prepare your mind like this, so you WH could play your role(才有作用 in his original words, or could be of use/could be beneficial)."

So in the end, as it'd turned out, WH lost to ZJK in the final.  But in the teams event, he served his role as the midfielder, paired up with ZJK for the doubles, and secured the ultimate victory.  I feel that WH is in fact very brave.  WH's desire for the public good is much stronger than his personal interest.
<<<<<


Overall, people on the Chinese forums, mostly those who play, follow, and/or are truly involved in the sport, feel in general that LGL merely wanted to flatter WH but overdid it.  But unfortunately, the majority, the rest of those who don't know any better, took to heart what is reported by the media.

周到(Zhou Dao), the long-time reporter in table tennis, posted on her weibo her personal view on the incident.

Quote 纯个人身份分析国梁“开讲啦”事件

2014年10月30日 11:01
以个人身份分析下“开讲啦”坑国梁事件的前因后果哈。首先因为刘总太能说,录像至少说了30+分钟,而且句句有内容(这一点各位乒乓记者体会相当深刻),所以,问题来了,编导剪哪段呢?作为不懂体育的外行,显然王皓这一段很惊悚,于是就咔嚓剪上去了。然后各种断章取义以及放大……就形成了。我坚信刘总前后铺垫足够充分,伦敦前我还做过王皓“带着亚军的目标去伦敦”的专题呢,当时的队伍格局就是继科冲在前面,王皓躲在后面,会师就是胜利。“带着亚军的目标去伦敦”是给王皓减压的。关于让球的阴谋论,拜托,现在队里氛围都是残酷竞争好不啦?要不也不会给继科憋的狂踢挡板,冠军亚军都是中国的,都是总教练的成绩,谁拿对他来说都一样吧?让球这事早过时多年了,大家踏实的吧。
>>>>>
Purely Personal View on Guoliang's "Voice" Incident

2014/10/30 11:01
Below is a personal analysis of the Guoliang smearing incident and how it got started and the consequences that followed.  First, chief Liu is too eloquent, who has spoken for at least 30+ minutes in the recording, and there is substance in every sentence(this can be attested to by every table tennis reporter).  But then problems arise.  What part of it does the editor choose?  For a stranger to sports, apparently the segment about WH is very terrifying, and so, kacha(TL's note: SFX of cutting film in pinyin), the cut was made.  Then all sorts of misquoting and garbling as well as exaggeration...have formed.  I firmly believe chief Liu has done sufficient foreshadowing.  Before the London Olympics, I even wrote a piece on WH "Going to London with the Aim of Runner-up".  The team layout at that time was to have ZJK charge in the front, and WH dodge(literal translation of 躲 as in the original text) in the back, and called it a victory when they met in the final.  "Going to London aiming for silver" is to offload some of the pressure from WH.  Regarding the conspiracy of match fixing, come on.  The atmosphere within the team now is nothing but brutal competition, if you will?  If not, ZJK wouldn't have gone crazy kicking barriers for holding it in so bad.  Both the champion and runner-up go to China, both are the results of the head coach, to him it'd be the same whoever has earned it, right?  Fixing is a thing of the past.  Get real, people!
<<<<<

LGL has also published a statement saying his speech has been misinterpreted.  I will provide a translation later.


Edited by zeio - 10/30/2014 at 10:27pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by john18 john18 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

What is a "traduction", anyone?


Translation.



Yes, I corrected the posts, thank you.
Sorry for the mistakes. My english is sometimes... Confused  :).


Traduction is correct as well.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: TBD (MX-S, C1)
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 6:41pm
Thank you very much zeio for all the great work/translations you make for us who can't understand chinese ! (and thank-you to others "translators" too)


Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:



Traduction is correct as well.


Oh !? Ok, I've learned another word today LOL


Edited by john18 - 10/30/2014 at 6:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:42pm
Sometime before the London Olympics, the voice of ZJK winning the Olympics was getting really strong.  People started to fear that the final would get fixed.  Then, a netizen left a comment on LGL's weibo,

体育真正的魅力在于公平竞争。现在媒体这么发达,观众那么苛刻,任何有让球嫌疑的举动必将会引发喧然大波,进而影响到整个中国体育在世界的形象,
The real charm of sports lies in fair competition.  In this day and age where the media have become so developed, and spectators have become so harsh, any suspicious move of fixing will no doubt cause an upheaval, thereby tarnishing the image of the Chinese sports as a whole in the world.

To which LGL responded,

看了你很多的评论 ,看来你是一个有思想的真球迷!我向所有的球迷保证,你们担心的让球问题绝对不可能在伦敦奥运出现!!!
Having read a lot of your comments, it looks like you are a real fan with reflection!  I promise to all fans, that your worries over the fixing issue will absolutely not materialize in the London Olympics!!!

Below is LGL's statement on his weibo,

张继科大满贯实至名归,王皓奥运会三届亚军无怨无悔,他俩都是我的骄傲!我对他俩的感情不分彼此,就像对我的两个宝贝女儿一样,我绝不会让他们去让球,也绝不允许任何人和事去伤害他们!!!乒乓强拥抱
ZJK deserves his grand slam.  WH bears no grudge and has no regrets over three-time Olympic runner-ups.  I'm proud of them both!  I am impartial as to my feelings for them, just like how I treat both of my lovely daughters.  Never would I allow them to cede, nor would I allow anyone and anything to harm them!!! TT paddle and ball smiley, thumbs-up smiley and hug smiley


Edited by zeio - 10/30/2014 at 11:56pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/30/2014 at 10:45pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Hey zeio just curious when do you organize a trip to china for 2 weeks everything included like visas, plane tickets, hotel, tt training, some of the food, sightseeing etc...i'm in. I trust u so much!!!
No problem!  I have some of the best price in town.  Heck, I'll give you an extra discount!  
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/31/2014 at 12:07am
Late, true... I just watched the ML-Apolonia quarterfinal. Tiago (28 yo, one of the fastest forehands on the tour) had a great tournament in Dusseldorf. 4:0 against Freitas, and the first two games against Ma Long weren't bad at all. If Apolonia was 5 years younger, I'd say who knows, maybe he could do much better in the future...
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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