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Common cheats and how to avoid them?

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    Posted: 09/03/2011 at 4:56am
First of all, this tread only concerns those who plays in tournaments/competitions where the ITTF rules are used.

There are several treads about rules that are unenforceable, and like most others, I think this seriously damages the sport. So, instead of complaining about them, how about suggesting ways to solve the problems?

Hiding the serve; Seems to be very common, at all levels. ITTF have suggested an increased throw height (throw should be above head) but I fail to see how this would solve the problem. I've read some one suggesting to only allow bh serving, and this might prevent it, but still not a good solution according to me. The best solution I can come up with is better education for umpires, and accept the fact that they might initially call a lot of serves.

Boosting; Another well known "cheat". Since the reason given to "ban" speed glue was health issues, I think the best solution would be to allow boosting, I can't see any harm in it. As long as the other rules aren't broken (thickness) then why not allow boosting, especially since ITTF (or any one else) don't seem to be able to detect it.

Treating pips; Not sure how common this is, but I belive that most who does it does it to reduce the friction. One way to solve it would be with a friction testing device, and a list where all the pips friction is listed, so umpires know what friction the rubbers is supposed to have. Off course, a level of tolerance should be included. Now, such a device don't seem to exist, so why not allow pips of any friction? Would this prevent people from treating their own pips?

Any other common cheats and ways to deal with them? Or, other suggestions on how to deal with the "cheats" I've listed?

I want TT to be a clean sport, where people try to play by the rules, rather then trying to twist them to suit their own neeeds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin_2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 6:05am
I agree with you on the solutions. However
"Hiding the serve; Seems to be very common, at all levels"

I hardly ever see hidden serves at ordinary level. Funnily, it is most common among those who have time to practise. So maybe you are correct to use the term, Cheat.

I would say that >80% of players serve illegally most times. I think it's caused by ignorance and the fact that it is quite difficult to consistently perform a legal serve. Of course with practice this is achievable. But hardly any players practice anything. Mostly we just play matches.

Edit: Oops, I just re-read and realised that u were talking about tournament players. 
There is a big tournament in my city today and I will observe and get back to you.


Edited by Tinykin_2 - 09/03/2011 at 6:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 6:53am
Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:


I agree with you on the solutions. However
"<span ="apple-style-span"="" style=": rgb238, 242, 247; ">Hiding the serve; Seems to be very common, at all levels"</span>
I hardly ever see hidden serves at ordinary level. Funnily, it is most common among those who have time to practise. So maybe you are correct to use the term, Cheat.
I would say that >80% of players serve illegally most times. I think it's caused by ignorance and the fact that it is quite difficult to consistently perform a legal serve. Of course with practice this is achievable. But hardly any players practice anything. Mostly we just play matches.
Edit: Oops, I just re-read and realised that u were talking about tournament players. 
There is a big tournament in my city today and I will observe and get back to you.



Well, the tread is open for any one to participate in, but the topic is about sanctioned events only, where the ITTF rules apply.

I see a lot of players hiding their serve, even at the lower levels of play. It seems to be most common amongst those who are used to have a good serve. Once it isn't working any more, because people have learnt how to read it, they start hiding it. This is one rule I would like to see enforced, as it opens up the game a lot more and takes away a lot of the advantage that the server have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote channyboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 7:00am
Australia #2 simon gerada cheats, he puts a white wrist band on his other arm, 'camouflaging' the ball LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 7:28am
Two things I notice alot is Veteran players serveing from thier hands 
and higher level players throwing the ball back and and sideways by a half metre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote channyboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 8:18am
Everyone tosses the ball diagonally, even the pros like Xu xin, Wang hao do it (Xu xins is medium and Wang haos is minor).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 8:43am
Any suggestions on how to come on terms with these problems? Is it enough to further educate the umpires and should they call more serves?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rokphish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 8:46am
this one comes to mind:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/03/2011 at 8:54am
Hiding the serve:
Above-head throw may solve the toss height issue at hand but the parts about vertical toss and hiding will persist as long as one is allowed to serve forehand pendulum or whatever.

I can see Samsonov embrace it in no time but Wang Liqin may feel otherwise.  Less tall players like Tan Ruiwu may even see it as an advantage.  I sense height discrimination here.

Other than BH serve, the tomahawk serve, which can be done with both the forehand and backhand, is quite legitimate in nature to me.  Hmm, discrimination of forehand tomahawk serve there if only BH serve is allowed.

Boosting:
Blame the term "factory-tuned" for the ruckus around boosting.  It would have been all fine if it weren't for the fact that rubber manufacturers can treat their rubbers before sending it to the ITTF for authorization.

What problem is there if all I am doing is return my factory-tuned rubber that is experiencing "withdrawal symptoms" to the state as it has been authorized by the ITTF with the aftermarket boosters, tuners, or additives that the rubber originally came with out of the package and now ITTF tell me they contain poisonous substance(s) but somehow not a health hazard if done at the factory-level?

Some people have suggested that the rubber thickness be reduced, but it can hardly keep people from boosting if not exacerbate the situation.  Boosters will still boost to their advantage, tuners will still tune to their hearts' content, and the rest will still be left in the dust.

Originally posted by ITTF Handbook 2011 / 2012 ITTF Handbook 2011 / 2012 wrote:

Under "Laws of Table Tennis",
2.04.07      The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical or other treatment.

Under "Regulations for International Competition",
3.04.02.02      The racket covering shall be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.; in particular, no additives shall be used.


Treating pips:
I am less informed on the issue so my opinion may be prone to prejudgment.  From what I've read frictionless pips allow for much more spin-reversal and this should theoretically make the return shot more "predictable", which the ITTF think otherwise but have offered no affordable, quick and easy measurement tool for use at tournament venues.

Edited by zeio - 09/03/2011 at 10:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin_2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by Tinykin_2 Tinykin_2 wrote:


I agree with you on the solutions. However
"<span ="apple-style-span"="" style=": rgb238, 242, 247; ">Hiding the serve; Seems to be very common, at all levels"</span>
I hardly ever see hidden serves at ordinary level. Funnily, it is most common among those who have time to practise. So maybe you are correct to use the term, Cheat.
I would say that >80% of players serve illegally most times. I think it's caused by ignorance and the fact that it is quite difficult to consistently perform a legal serve. Of course with practice this is achievable. But hardly any players practice anything. Mostly we just play matches.
Edit: Oops, I just re-read and realised that u were talking about tournament players. 
There is a big tournament in my city today and I will observe and get back to you.



Well, the tread is open for any one to participate in, but the topic is about sanctioned events only, where the ITTF rules apply.

I see a lot of players hiding their serve, even at the lower levels of play. It seems to be most common amongst those who are used to have a good serve. Once it isn't working any more, because people have learnt how to read it, they start hiding it. This is one rule I would like to see enforced, as it opens up the game a lot more and takes away a lot of the advantage that the server have.

Not many people had hidden serves. The standard was reasonable with a range of good local players up to WR 200 or so. Maybe the hidden serve is more widely used in your country as the players are of a generally higher standard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

It would have been all fine if it weren't for the fact that rubber manufacturers can treat their rubbers before sending it to the ITTF for authorization.

What problem is there if all I am doing is return my factory-tuned rubber that is experiencing "withdrawal symptoms" to the state as it has been authorized by the ITTF with the aftermarket boosters, tuners, or additives that the rubber originally came with out of the package...


Rubber manufacturers can not tune their rubbers before sending it to the ITTF for authorization, because only top sheets need to be authorised. The sponge does not need to be authorised, the combination of the sponge and the top sheet does not need to be authorised either.

Now, regardless how the rules actually address the issue and how they can be interpreted, the factory-tuned rubbers are the reality and the ITTF has apparently nothing against it. Which means, they practically allow to use tuned rubbers. Hence everyone is entitled to restore the quality of his factory-tuned rubber or tune any rubber himself. Again, the reason for my conclusion is the fact, that the ITTF does not speak against factory-tuned rubbers and they are openly sold by the manufacturers and used by the players.

Some people argue, that according to the rules only manufacturers are allowed to tune rubbers. First, there is no such a rule, so it is a question of interpretation. I do not see, how existing rules can be interpreted this way.


Edited by Mastermind - 09/04/2011 at 1:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 3:05pm
I have only seen a couple cases of people tuning or speed gluing at the club or at tournaments, or else its so hard to tell, even from the sound, that you wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference. However with serves I see tons of people cheating, either serving from the hand or flat out hiding it, or one person at my club just stomps his foot as hard as he can, which I know isn't part of the serve motion and only serves to distract people because you can hear it across the gym loudly. But yeah, senior players serving from their hands, players who were playing 15~ years ago using hidden serves still even in tournaments, or even I see young kids doing it because their coaches taught them to serve that way for an advantage. With the pips being treated, I've never noticed it because people dont play frictionless style at my club, they hit with them, now there's I think 3 long pips, 3 short pip regular players now not counting me. The only person I've seen treat his rubber like that was an inverted player who used it to make his rubber glassy like a nastier, unpredictable anti.

What I do about it, at tournaments I'll ask the person to not hide their serve, but from every instance I've gone through they do it anyway and say its habit so...but at 1-2 star tournaments your lucky if you have 1 umpire for the whole place and they just do the open singles semi-finals and finals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 4:00pm
I have no problem with people hiding the serve. At the end that is how the game was played when I started playing. I have no problem with people boosting/speed gluing. Most of them are  clueless as to why they do it. I have no problem with people treating their pips. Frictionless pimples add to the diversity of the game and they are welcome.
However, I have a problem with small-minded people who only see their nets and edges. These are the real cheats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

I have no problem with people hiding the serve. At the end that is how the game was played when I started playing. I have no problem with people boosting/speed gluing. Most of them are  clueless as to why they do it. I have no problem with people treating their pips. Frictionless pimples add to the diversity of the game and they are welcome.However, I have a problem with small-minded people who only see their nets and edges. These are the real cheats.


Well, even if you don't mind it, it's still cheating. I agree that frictionless pips adds to the diversity of the game, boosting/tuning/speed gluing is a cheap way of getting quality performance from cheap equipment, but, it's still against the rules. So, I suggest the rules to be changed, but until then, I'm going to stick to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by channyboi channyboi wrote:

Everyone tosses the ball diagonally, even the pros like Xu xin, Wang hao do it (Xu xins is medium and Wang haos is minor).
If the ball is not tossed near vertical then the umpire should say "fault" and give the authority of all umpires to call as per the rules
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/04/2011 at 11:24pm
i think the problem is that most event have no money to hire professional umpires or the proper machinery to determine if people treated/boasted their rubbers... i think no matter how you change the rules people will always cheat if there is no enforcers of the rule....

the truth is if you don't practice with a mirror or if ur coaches/opponents don't tell you ur serve is hidden its kinda hard for you to tell.... i think raising the toss by a little will definitely help tho
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liXiao Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2011 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

I have no problem with people hiding the serve. At the end that is how the game was played when I started playing. I have no problem with people boosting/speed gluing. Most of them are  clueless as to why they do it. I have no problem with people treating their pips. Frictionless pimples add to the diversity of the game and they are welcome.However, I have a problem with small-minded people who only see their nets and edges. These are the real cheats.


Well, even if you don't mind it, it's still cheating. I agree that frictionless pips adds to the diversity of the game, boosting/tuning/speed gluing is a cheap way of getting quality performance from cheap equipment, but, it's still against the rules. So, I suggest the rules to be changed, but until then, I'm going to stick to them.

So you take issue with the fact that not everyone wants to pay 70$ for a sheet of tenergy? Not everyone out there can afford the latest and greatest equipment. At least during the era of speed gluing there was a more level playing field, but now its a matter of buying a 100$ blade and 140$ worth of rubbers. Kind of sad the game had to come to this...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2011 at 12:21am
Originally posted by JohnnyChope JohnnyChope wrote:

the truth is if you don't practice with a mirror or if ur coaches/opponents don't tell you ur serve is hidden its kinda hard for you to tell.... i think raising the toss by a little will definitely help tho


Its easy to tell, if you aren't pulling your arm back to your body and clearly out of the path of the ball's rise and falling, you're not serving legally. Unless you're intent is to hide your serve and hinder your opponents view of it, there is zero reason to do anything but move your arm back to your side or other side of your body from the serve.
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Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Rubber manufacturers can not tune their rubbers before sending it to the ITTF for authorization, because only top sheets need to be authorised. The sponge does not need to be authorised, the combination of the sponge and the top sheet does not need to be authorised either.

You really think so?  Think again.

Originally posted by Racket Coverings Technical Leaflet T4 Racket Coverings Technical Leaflet T4 wrote:

B. Quantitative Criteria
1. The racket covering
It should be noted in particular that:

Authorisation is given to the top sheet plus the top sheet / sponge combination. Red and
black top sheets with the same supplier and brand name must have the same geometry,
properties, and text (wording and numbering). The surface colours must be uniform. Red and
black top sheets of the same brand do not require separate authorisation fees.

D. Administrative Procedure

2.2 Normal procedure
1. The supplier should submit the following:

one top sheet sample of each colour- with no sponge,
one complete racket covering – any colour - with the thickest sponge to be marketed;
packed as it will appear in the market (for VOC test, ref. C.10),

one extra sample for pimples-out (to save time, ref. Para. 11 below) any colour, with
no sponge,

to the address given under “Contact Person” on ITTF web site. Please ensure that all
charges are paid before shipment.


Also please keep in mind not just the sponge but also the topsheet can be treated with boosters or tuners.

Quote Now, regardless how the rules actually address the issue and how they can be interpreted, the factory-tuned rubbers are the reality and the ITTF has apparently nothing against it. Which means, they practically allow to use tuned rubbers. Hence everyone is entitled to restore the quality of his factory-tuned rubber or tune any rubber himself. Again, the reason for my conclusion is the fact, that the ITTF does not speak against factory-tuned rubbers and they are openly sold by the manufacturers and used by the players.

Some people argue, that according to the rules only manufacturers are allowed to tune rubbers. First, there is no such a rule, so it is a question of interpretation. I do not see, how existing rules can be interpreted this way.

Adham has expressed the intention to contain the situation.

Originally posted by President Forum President Forum wrote:

Coming to an end I have two last questions. What do you think about the new trend that the companies “prepare” the rackets of their top players in the factories? Is this also forbidden? For me It is exactly the same delict as if an amateur player booster his rubbers. Is there a possibility to force the companies to stop this behavior in the future?


It depends how it is done. If the sponge is boosted at the factory level when it is being produced. Then after production iit is aired and free of VOCs, then it is OK. No problem according to our rules. However, if the booster is ADDED after production and after approval by ITTF, then it is also illegal. We have both cases of course. For the players they feel better because they can say that they themselves did not do anything wrong.  We are talking to the manufacturers and trying to work together to control the situation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2011 at 1:21am
Originally posted by liXiao liXiao wrote:


Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

I have no problem with people hiding the serve. At the end that is how the game was played when I started playing. I have no problem with people boosting/speed gluing. Most of them are  clueless as to why they do it. I have no problem with people treating their pips. Frictionless pimples add to the diversity of the game and they are welcome.However, I have a problem with small-minded people who only see their nets and edges. These are the real cheats.


Well, even if you don't mind it, it's still cheating. I agree that frictionless pips adds to the diversity of the game, boosting/tuning/speed gluing is a cheap way of getting quality performance from cheap equipment, but, it's still against the rules. So, I suggest the rules to be changed, but until then, I'm going to stick to them.

So you take issue with the fact that not everyone wants to pay 70$ for a sheet of tenergy? Not everyone out there can afford the latest and greatest equipment. At least during the era of speed gluing there was a more level playing field, but now its a matter of buying a 100$ blade and 140$ worth of rubbers. Kind of sad the game had to come to this...


Not at all, I'm one of those who have given up on Tenergy due to it's hefty price. But, there are other legal rubbers out there to use at a much more affordable price.

As far as I know, there have always been high price equipment that holds some benefits to the cheaper equipment, and this was true even back in the days of speed glue. So, I'm not sure if the speed glue era provided a more level playing field at all.

I have issues with people breaking the rules. As you might have noticed, I don't agree with all the rules, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't play by them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2011 at 10:39am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


Originally posted by Racket Coverings Technical Leaflet T4 Racket Coverings Technical Leaflet T4 wrote:

B. Quantitative Criteria
1. The racket covering
It should be noted in particular that:

Authorisation is given to the top sheet plus the top sheet / sponge combination. ...

D. Administrative Procedure

1. The supplier should submit the following:

one top sheet sample of each colour- with no sponge,
one complete racket covering – any colour - with the thickest sponge to be marketed;
packed as it will appear in the market (for VOC test, ref. C.10),



I think, the phrase about combination means something different. It does not mean, that the ITTF authorised sponge. It means, that if the top sheet is authorised, then the whole racket covering is authorised, too. You can not play with the top sheet only, if you use inverted rubber.

There are no authorisation tests for sponge, only for top sheets. That is why they ask the supplier to submit "one top sheet sample of each colour - with no sponge".

There are no authorisation tests for the combination either.

As for their asking to submit "one complete racket covering for VOC test", it is not a part of authorisation. It can not be, because there is no rule concerning VOC in rubbers. If you read the "speed glue ban" - rule, you will see, that they restrict only the kind of glue, but not the VOCs in rubber itself. (Logically one can argue, that the VOC test may not be the reason for disqualification then, but this is another topic).

So, a short summary. Top sheets undergo some tests, get authorised, sponges are not authorised. Then the combination (any sponge + authorised top sheet) is automatically authorised.

By the way, that means, that if you use a 10mm thick sponge with an authorised top sheet, you still have an authorised combination. However, this combination is not legal. So, we should not mix up "legal" and "authorised".

Edited by Mastermind - 09/05/2011 at 10:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/05/2011 at 11:10am
lol, anyone who has even used something thats factory tuned knows they put this plastic shield thing on there and glue to KEEP IN the VOC's and the tuning, and once you peel it off you can still strongly smell it. We also know they make VOC free tuners and speed glue, so its a moot point anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a23096713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 12:11am
I recently played with a younger player that used home made speed glue on the rubber. The kid doesn't win anything against me usually, other than that day.

I can see why the boosting/speed glue will effect the game.

It really has something to do with the perception of the shots. The equipment knowledge helps in table tennis most of the time. People know what sort of return/shot/spin level will be from certain equipment. This rule also applies toward inverted rubber. The ball clearly has a different spin and travel path compare to normal untreated rubber.

Back then when speed gluing is legal, players are familiar with the treated equipment thus easier to handle then. Problem I have now is that when someone suddenly speed glued their equipment. It's much harder to adjust to the differences between the brain perception.

In some way, banning speed glue/boosting actually give people who want to cheat with self boosted equipment an easier time to gain advantage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 12:57am
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

I think, the phrase about combination means something different. It does not mean, that the ITTF authorised sponge. It means, that if the top sheet is authorised, then the whole racket covering is authorised, too. You can not play with the top sheet only, if you use inverted rubber.

There are no authorisation tests for sponge, only for top sheets. That is why they ask the supplier to submit "one top sheet sample of each colour - with no sponge".

Is this a joke?  The rule does not permit the use of sponge alone, which makes any authorization unneccessary.

Quote There are no authorisation tests for the combination either.

As for their asking to submit "one complete racket covering for VOC test", it is not a part of authorisation. It can not be, because there is no rule concerning VOC in rubbers. If you read the "speed glue ban" - rule, you will see, that they restrict only the kind of glue, but not the VOCs in rubber itself. (Logically one can argue, that the VOC test may not be the reason for disqualification then, but this is another topic).


Are you serious?
Originally posted by Racket Coverings Technical Leaflet T4 Racket Coverings Technical Leaflet T4 wrote:

...one complete racket covering – any colour - with the thickest sponge to be marketed;
packed as it will appear in the market (for VOC test, ref. C.10),


And the VOC test being referred to is located at the end of the T4:

Quote 10. Extended testing of racket coverings.

ITTF is making an effort to reduce the use of VOC (volatile organic components) due to the
health risk involved. This work is also fully supported by IOC and United Nations.

The Law 2.4.7. says “The racket covering shall be used without any physical, chemical of
other treatment.” Our reference point here is the authorisation. However, there have been
criticisms that ITTF does not authorise the complete racket covering, only the rubber itself
(top sheet). Hence, to remove any doubts, we are enlarging the testing.


We are doing racket controls at ITTF events, and this testing will be increased. By collecting
the information from these events we will be able to compare with data from this testing. We
will start concentrating on VOC and thickness which have shown to be the most important
areas here.
These will then be our main reference points for comparison.

We are asking for one thing here: one complete racket covering (a complete racket covering
of any colour) with the thickest available sponge of each brand on LARC, in a parcel as it is
presented to the market – in a plastic bag or similar. This will be our reference sample for our
testing of VOC and thickness.


Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

So, a short summary. Top sheets undergo some tests, get authorised, sponges are not authorised. Then the combination (any sponge + authorised top sheet) is automatically authorised.

Your intel is so yesteryear.  The above statement was valid only up until 2009 and some amout of time after that.

Originally posted by T4_Racket Coverings 2009.pdf T4_Racket Coverings 2009.pdf wrote:

B. Quantitative Criteria

1. The racket covering

It should be noted in particular that:

Authorisation is given to the top sheet alone. Red and black...


But that has been no longer the case since at least August, 2010.

Originally posted by T4RacketCoverings08_2010.pdf T4RacketCoverings08_2010.pdf wrote:

B. Quantitative Criteria

1. The racket covering

It should be noted in particular that:

Authorisation is given to the top sheet plus the top sheet / sponge
combination.
Red and black...


Edited by zeio - 09/06/2011 at 1:00am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 1:04am
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Well, Adham Sharara has lost his credibility long ago. If you make your point, you'd better refer to the text of the rules. Besides, appeal to authority is a well known logical fallacy.

The rules do not support his statement. In case of contradiction it it the text of the rules, that counts, not Sharara's statements.

Oh, tell me about it.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 1:33am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:


But that has been no longer the case since at least August, 2010.
Originally posted by T4RacketCoverings08_2010.pdf T4RacketCoverings08_2010.pdf wrote:

B. Quantitative Criteria1. The racket coveringIt should be noted in particular that:Authorisation is given to the top sheet plus the top sheet / spongecombination. Red and black...





I wasn't aware of this rule. Not that it affects me, since I don't buy sponges seperatly, but doesn't this rule make it illegal to use your own sponge/top sheet combination?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 2:29am
Originally posted by Speedplay Speedplay wrote:

Hiding the serve; Seems to be very common, at all levels. ITTF have suggested an increased throw height (throw should be above head) but I fail to see how this would solve the problem. I've read some one suggesting to only allow bh serving, and this might prevent it, but still not a good solution according to me. The best solution I can come up with is better education for umpires, and accept the fact that they might initially call a lot of serves. 

 
I recently encountered a pretty slick variation of the hidden serve at a tournament.  I kept popping up my ~2200-rated opponent's serve and I was confused why.  He would follow it up with a strong forehand.  After losing, I reviewed the video.  When he served, he would move his whole arm to the side to give me a good look.  This is during mostly sidespin-underspin serves.  He had a nice change up to side-top by flicking his wrist slightly up.  It's during this change-up that I had problems.  It turns out, he would still move his free arm to the side but he did it in a way where the upper arm is not completely out of the way.  So when he did the quick wrist flick up, I never really saw it because his tricep covered the contact.  So by moving his free arm to the side, he gave the illusion that he was giving me a good look but the flick at the last moment was still hidden.  I noticed that this is becoming more popular so you guys should be on the lookout.  The front shoulder can also be used for this I suppose. 
 
As a solution, umpires should enforce the drop-the-arm-after-toss rule.  No more of that WLQ leave the arm out until the last minute. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nathanso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 2:32am
In the USA at the tournaments I play in (1700-2100 level), improper service toss is the most frequently broken rule. As others here have stated, many such tournaments have few umpires (usually just one!) so almost every match is player-umpired, and most players don't even know the ITTF rules in the first place so they don't realize and/or don't care they're breaking them. Starting "an issue" mid-match over an opponent's improper service toss is almost always more trouble than it's worth as the animosity it brings is rarely worth the effort.

Another oft-broken rule is that of sideline coaching. I see the 60-second coaching interval badly abused, and the one player/one coach rule also abused.. again, by players and advisers (I won't say "coaches" as they surely know better) who are ignorant of the rules. I also see occasional mid-game coaching from onlooking parents/advisers that are sometimes match-effecting and patently illegal under the rules.

As for boosted rubber, I don't see this being a serious issue except at the highest levels where abilities are elite and difference in gear can make or break the outcome of a match. At lower levels, there's always some faster, spinnier rubber that someone could opt for.. but could they handle it and wield it effectively? As for "treated" LPs, namely those altered to have less friction, I'll reserve judgement on that front (as a grippy LP player myself) as I've not encountered such a player (at least I don't think I have!) yet, but I can imaging how such an advantage could be match-affecting.

How to mitigate these issues? With the shoestring budgets that many smaller tournaments must operate under, additional umpiring staff is clearing not going to happen. Perhaps player education would help (Coaches: Teach your students the rules!), but some players are clearly not concerned with the strict legality of their play. As for mid-match coaching, I think it should be banned since deception is such a key ingredient in TT. It should be up to the player to decode his opponent's game; not his sideline. "Run what ya brung"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speedplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2011 at 3:29am
Nathanso, I agree that budget is a problem for many tournaments, and the best way would be for all coaches to actually teach their students the rules so that they learn how to serve properly and respect the rules about sideline coaching.

As for the one minute intervall, didn't think about that one, but that is one rule that is seriously disrespected at the lower levels. The same goes for the time-out. I remember umpiring one match at lower level, a time-out was called and I usually don't clock them, since no one really seems bothered by it. Any way, when I thought the time-out was taking an awful lot of time, I started the clock (remember, the time-out had already been going on for quite some time when I did this) and when it showed one minute, I called them back to the table. The coach got furious at me and shouted that they had called a time-out, so he was allowed to talk to his student...
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